The Glasgow razor boy and eternal security

[Evmur]

Well I am not an arminian. So if you want to talk talk to me. Not some long dead person.

that makes it millions of times worse than Calvin. Calvin's solution is Limited Atonement which is pretty abhorrent but at least it would depend upon God's judgement. Arminius makes it depend upon human will. Not only the human will of the one who hears the gospel but ...
... but the will of those who are tasked with preaching the good news to the whole world. Will they go or will they stay at home? whole nations of souls depend upon it BILLIONS of souls.

That's if you believe Arminius. You can only choose if you are given a choice.

"anyone who was there" you say, that's right, the Jews, they were there. They were the chosen people. Elect, chosen.

I constantly hear folks say in the last judgement is unto damnation, after all the church is in the first resurrection right? so according to any theology all else have been passed over and must be damned ... right?

That is not what the bible says. The bible says that when God comes to judge the earth He will judge with equity, that is with perfect fairness.

lol. God wants a relationship

Calvin says theif is no relationship. We are all robots doing Gods will

Arminian say we have free will. But we must continue to save ourself

they are both in error..[/QUOTE]
the bible says our will is in bondage before Christ set us FREE... why not believe that? to go back to our old ways is to go back once again to being in bondage to the elementary spirits of the universe ... is the church in trouble?

 

[JimmyTheLock]

to what purpose did you add the word "saw"?

Saw... as in understand, to have vision, to be able to see and not be blind anymore.

Arminian say we have free will. But we must continue to save ourself

Jesus Christ personally said... we must abide IN Him... WE have to decide if we are going to walk with the Lord, or reject Him and go out own way.

Those that accept the whole counsel of God know this... we are born again and called to... walk in obedience to the Lord and we know this is possible to accomplish because THRU CHRIST we can do all things

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Some folks must have Bibles that has Philippians 4:13 removed cause they going around saying we as Christians cannot abide in Christ.

John 15:1,2
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. John 15:5 IF A MAN ABIDE NOT IN ME, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus???? That’s right, WE are!

John 15:4,5
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus???? That’s right, WE are!

John 15:8-10
Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

HOW are we to abide in Christ, thru our own strength and ability???
NO... thru the Lord Who strengthens us!

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Some claim it's ALL up to the Lord... so they must also claim that when they fail, it's God's fault to... so they are acusing God of wrongdoing like their father the devil does!

 

[oyster67]

John lives and breathes it.

Yes, he does. He walks in the Light. He does not bank on some foolish Calvinistic notion that we can go our own merry way and still get to Heaven. We must follow the path of Jesus to the best of our ability. Trust and obey. This is not grievous.

 

[Evmur]

Yes, he does. He walks in the Light. He does not bank on some foolish Calvinistic notion that we can go our own merry way and still get to Heaven. We must follow the path of Jesus to the best of our ability. Trust and obey. This is not grievous.

you made that up ... I've never heard any Christian say such a thing

 

[Evmur]

Saw... as in understand, to have vision, to be able to see and not be blind anymore.




Jesus Christ personally said... we must abide IN Him... WE have to decide if we are going to walk with the Lord, or reject Him and go out own way.

Those that accept the whole counsel of God know this... we are born again and called to... walk in obedience to the Lord and we know this is possible to accomplish because THRU CHRIST we can do all things

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Some folks must have Bibles that has Philippians 4:13 removed cause they going around saying we as Christians cannot abide in Christ.

John 15:1,2
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. John 15:5 IF A MAN ABIDE NOT IN ME, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus???? That’s right, WE are!

John 15:4,5
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus???? That’s right, WE are!

John 15:8-10
Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

HOW are we to abide in Christ, thru our own strength and ability???
NO... thru the Lord Who strengthens us!

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Some claim it's ALL up to the Lord... so they must also claim that when they fail, it's God's fault to... so they are acusing God of wrongdoing like their father the devil does!

but you do not abide in Him ... conversely without Christ we can do nothing ZIPPO, despite all our supposed freewill, resolutions, self discipline.

See we tried all that before we were saved, in fact we had to repent of all that. We had to put all our doings aside and admit "Lord I can't do this but if Thou art able I am willing"

We fail because we cease to rely soley upon God but rely upon our own wisdom and sufficiency.

He is the vine we are the branches ... what exactly does a branch do?

Herein is God glorified

... but you folks like to steal a little glory for yourselves ... that's what you are doing, crowing. Exulting yourself above your brethren.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

but you do not abide in Him ...

whose job is it to abide or remain in God?

 

[Evmur]

whose job is it to abide or remain in God?

We abide in Christ when we stay in that state in which we were in when we were saved. Then we surrendered our will to Christ and submitted to His Lordship.

God subjugated our will to His own will and glad our hearts were when He did. But folks do not like to be subjugated do they. Our pride rises up in rebellion and we snatch our own "free" will back.

Man does have a will but it is never free. God's good and perfect will is what we need.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

We abide in Christ when stay in that state in which we were in when we were saved. Then we surrendered our will to Christ and submitted to His Lordship.

God subjugated our will to His own will and glad our hearts were when He did. But folks do not like to be subjugated do they. Our pride rises up in rebellion and we snatch our own "free" will back.

Man does have a will but it is never free. God's good and perfect will is what we need.

See, now You and I are getting somewhere.
Some of this, very Little bit, but some of this, does fall onto us to keep ourselves in God.
and if you read my Posts, this is all i have been saying.
we're not robots.
we are not programmed.
we have a will and have the ability to make decisions based upon that will.
to Abide/Remain in Christ, is part of the process, we actually do control.

 

[Evmur]

See, now You and I are getting somewhere.
Some of this, very Little bit, but some of this, does fall onto us to keep ourselves in God.
and if you read my Posts, this is all i have been saying.
we're not robots.
we are not programmed.
we have a will and have the ability to make decisions based upon that will.
to Abide/Remain in Christ, is part of the process, we actually do control.

... by staying in submission always ... see that is what Luther calls passive salvation. We may do things but if we will do anything for the Lord it has to be according to His will in His power [strength].

The great problem with starting off with the freewill doctrine is Christians go through their whole life serving God according to their own will. That is why [oft times] very little gets done. Evangelism grinds to a halt. is that what is happening in the church?

And by the way I am not doubting anybody's salvation, God is very gracious.

Did you know the doctrine of human freewill is a relatively modern idea? oh yes, the ancients never believed man had freewill. It is no doctrine of the reformation. Luther fought like crazy against the idea for it was formulated by the Catholic humanist scholars like Erasmus.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

... by staying in submission always ... see that is what Luther calls passive salvation. We may do things but if we will do anything for the Lord it has to be according to His will in His power [strength].

The great problem with starting off with the freewill doctrine is Christians go through their whole life serving God according to their own will. That is why [oft times] very little gets done. Evangelism grinds to a halt. is that what is happening in the church?

And by the way I am not doubting anybody's salvation, God is very gracious.

Did you know the doctrine of human freewill is a relatively modern idea? oh yes, the ancients never believed man had freewill. It is no doctrine of the reformation. Luther fought like crazy against the idea for it was formulated by the Catholic humanist scholars like Erasmus.

Thank You for the tid bit about the human freewill Doctrine being so new. i will definitely research it.

 

[Evmur]

Thank You for the tid bit about the human freewill Doctrine being so new. i will definitely research it.

yo

by modern I count from 16th century on as modern [early modern]

The altar call is even more modern, less than 200 years old.

Whitefield or Wesley would never have called for folks to make a decision, they preached, the Holy Spirit fell and people started crying out to be saved.

Wesley was not quite the free willer folks make him out to be ... he believed in a little thing he called "Prevenient grace" that is to say that repentance and salvation was the result of the prior work of the Holy Spirit in the hearts of the hearer.

... sure

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

yo

by modern I count from 16th century on as modern [early modern]

The altar call is even more modern, less than 200 years old.

Whitefield or Wesley would never have called for folks to make a decision, they preached, the Holy Spirit fell and people started crying out to be saved.

Wesley was not quite the free willer folks make him out to be ... he believed in a little thing he called "Prevenient grace" that is to say that repentance and salvation was the result of the prior work of the Holy Spirit in the hearts of the hearer.

... sure

i agree, people, who hear the Gospel being Preached and come under conviction will yield to God.

but out of curiosity, do you oppose, the Altar Call Method?

i think, some people, while under conviction, are deciding what they want to do. and i think, some times, the Altar Call, will encourage that next step. but it also is not always a fool proof method.

 

[oyster67]

you made that up ... I've never heard any Christian say such a thing

Well, well, well..

You have heard it now, for that is my testimony.

First time for everything.

 

[oyster67]

you made that up ... I've never heard any Christian say such a thing

1 John 5:3
“For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.”

 

[oyster67]

He is the vine we are the branches ... what exactly does a branch do?

They abide in the Vine.

Herein is God glorified

Yes!!!

 

[oyster67]

whose job is it to abide or remain in God?

My job. It gives me great pleasure to do so.

1 John 5:3
“For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.”

 

[selahsays]

whose job is it to abide or remain in God?

I’d have to say that it’s both, but mostly, our Father’s. He loves His kids!

Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

- Philippians 2:12-13

We must be diligent to work out our salvation with all the advantages we have (for example, we should all study our Bibles so that we can know the things God wants us to know): Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:15. We should always do our utmost for God and depend on His grace, knowing that He promises to work in us and help us to accomplish His will.

 

[JimmyTheLock]

but you do not abide in Him ... conversely without Christ we can do nothing ZIPPO, despite all our supposed freewill, resolutions, self discipline.

Sorry to hear you don't accept the whole counsel of God and have been mislead by the false teachers.

God created man in His Own Image... so man does in fact have free will, and we know this because God cannot lie.

The fact of the matter is, the Lord expects man to humble himself before the Lord...

1 Peter 5:6
Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:

*** WHO... is to do the humbling of themselves to the Lord????
That’s right, WE are! (see Philippians 4:13)

John 15:1,2
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. John 15:5 IF A MAN ABIDE NOT IN ME, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. ***

WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus????
That’s right, WE are! (see Philippians 4:13)

John 15:4,5
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus????
That’s right, WE are! (see Philippians 4:13)

John 15:8-10
Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

HOW are we to abide in Christ, thru our own strength and ability???
NO... thru the Lord Who strengthens us! (see Philippians 4:13)

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me.

Sadly... many fail to understand that Philippians 4:13 is applicable to us today...

 

[Evmur]

1 John 5:3
“For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.”

i agree, people, who hear the Gospel being Preached and come under conviction will yield to God.

but out of curiosity, do you oppose, the Altar Call Method?

i think, some people, while under conviction, are deciding what they want to do. and i think, some times, the Altar Call, will encourage that next step. but it also is not always a fool proof method.

I do not care for the Altar call, I am not so foolish as to say folks are not saved, or do I rail and call names to people who are of a different opinion ... that is a sign of insecurity.

I'm against giving anyone something they can do whereby having done what they are bid can say "now I am saved" many stand forward and are counselled but are not saved, they come into the church and cause all kinds of mischief before falling away.

Salvation is wholly a work of grace done in the heart by the Holy Spirit.

D. L. Moody who was of a somewhat ambiguous theology disapproved on the whole by Calvinists but loved by C.H.Spurgeon introduced the enquiry room, a place set aside for any who were troubled in soul to seek counsel.

 

[Evmur]

Well, well, well..

You have heard it now, for that is my testimony.

First time for everything.

at least you seem restored to your normal cheerful self

... soon put a stop to that.