The right why to learn

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Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1,541
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#21
In all truth the only way one can learn is to place all scripture in context with all other scripture. When one tells us that Paul said the law was removed, changed, or in anyway suspended, they turn to Paul. Yet when faced with the fact that Yeshua told us,
Mat 5:17"Don't misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose.
Mat 5:18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God's law will disappear until its purpose is achieved.
It becomes clear that they have misunderstood Paul. That or they wish to just over look all but one word. You see in the K.J.V. it reads
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
We can skip evey thing in this passage if we must. That is after all the only way to find that the Law has been removed. Yet as we read on we find that not even the smallest part of the law will be removed until heaven and earth are done away with. With that in mind one should seek to place every thing we read in the N.T. in context with this, were the law is concerned.
Every one that teaches the law does no good for our salvation, have over looked the fact that Yeshua also told us,
Mat 19:17“Why ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. But to answer your question—if you want to receive eternal life, keep the commandments.”
This repeated in Mark 10:19 and Luke 18:20. Yet it seems that many wish to condemn any that do their best to follow the law, and for some reason they think that we are lost with no hope for redemption.
The only true way to learn is to look at every word in the passage, chapter, book, and the whole of the Word to find continuity. Trying to explain way a full verse to make it fit your understand should be a red flag. Expechaly when your understanding doesn't line up with the vary verse you are looking at.
Now someone may ask, "Why are you so invested in this passage?" My answer, "This passage is the root of every thing I hold dear." You see if we keep it in context, and then seek to place the writings of everyone in the N.T. in context with this, it changes how we look at the law, Paul, Peter, and even parts of John.
As we will see in the next post, Yeshua never replaces any of the Law, he doesn't change any of it, or try to white wash it. What he does do is give us a fuller understanding of it.
Like I said stick around, you won't be sorry.
 

Soyeong

Active member
Oct 11, 2023
869
106
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#22
True, after all the writers of the N.T. only had the the O.T. If we were to have a teacher today, that thought from a book that wasn't even writen, we would most likely not listen to them. The people of the first century wouldn't have been any different. Also when we look at the number of times the O.T. is quoted, or refereed to, and remove them, we wouldn't have much left. One person said there would only be one pasage left, that being John 11:35. I do hope you will stay around, and give your in sight on some of this. I know that we would find we both learn something.
You sound like you might be interested in listening to the BEMA podcast, which works through the Bible from Genesis to Revelation for this perspective, and when it gets to the NT, it really hammers home how much of it is rooted in the OT. Still, everything in the NT being a quote or reference to the OT except John 11:35 seems a little high, though I think it is closer that being true of around 1/3 of the verses in the NT.

https://www.bemadiscipleship.com/
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1,541
87
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#23
You sound like you might be interested in listening to the BEMA podcast, which works through the Bible from Genesis to Revelation for this perspective, and when it gets to the NT, it really hammers home how much of it is rooted in the OT. Still, everything in the NT being a quote or reference to the OT except John 11:35 seems a little high, though I think it is closer that being true of around 1/3 of the verses in the NT.

https://www.bemadiscipleship.com/
I do agree, that is a bit extreme after all, you would need a way to tie so much that isn't in the O.T. to the actions taken in the N.T. Oddly even the dream Peter had on the roof can be traced to the O.T. if one wishes to use some mental gymnastics. It is how ever easy to tie to Rabbinic law. Which is what a lot of people today think Biblical law is. Or at lest it does seem that way.
I do thank you for the link, I will be looking at it. The one thing on this earth most is sound Biblical discussion. Vicky and I spent many long drives, and sleepless nights on the topic. Shabbat was always filled with talks that could last up to 24 hours. The joy we both from this, made it seem as though we had only started then Shabbat would be over.
Thank you once more.
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
1,629
490
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#24
Yes you have misunderstood. As we know, the N.T. was not cannoned until 350ad or so. As you to your first point I am not sure what it would be. After all there was in all truth no N.T. for the apostles to teach by. As to your second point, it is true that salvation is spoke of more in the O.T. by more than double, so again I don't see your point.
My point was quite simple. Why do you feel the need to point out that the OT had twice the number of spoke persons than the NT? You repeated this point here. Therefore, it would seem that you are trying to give the OT Scriptures MORE weight than the NT. Otherwise, what would be the point in mentioning this twice?
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
1,629
490
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#25
As gospel means truth, and Yeshua said
Mat 19:17“Why ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. But to answer your question—if you want to receive eternal life, keep the commandments.”
Also Yeshua use the Torah in his teachings, and spoke of the Law often. making it clear that if we love Him, we would keep them. So how is teaching them not upholding the teachings of Yeshua?
If you believe that eternal life is ONLY through keeping the Commandments, then you are making the same mistake the Jews made. They turned Salvation into a "Works Salvation."

The Jews had placed many commandments in the Torah that were not in the OT scrolls. Example: Many of the washing requirements are not from the Lord. Also, the rules surrounding the Sabbath are far more legalistic than the Lord intended them to be, if properly understood. The Torah held many traditions that were incorporated by the religious sectors - this prompted our Lord to proclaim the following:

Mar 7:6 And he said unto them, Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoreth me with their lips, But their heart is far from me.
Mar 7:7 But in vain do they worship me, Teaching as their doctrines the precepts of men.
Mar 7:8 Ye leave the commandment of God, and hold fast the tradition of men.
Mar 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well do ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your tradition.
Mar 7:10 For Moses said, Honor thy father and thy mother; and, He that speaketh evil of father or mother, let him die the death:
Mar 7:11 but ye say, If a man shall say to his father or his mother, That wherewith thou mightest have been profited by me is Corban, that is to say, Given to God;
Mar 7:12 ye no longer suffer him to do aught for his father or his mother;
Mar 7:13 making void the word of God by your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things ye do.





 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1,541
87
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#26
My point was quite simple. Why do you feel the need to point out that the OT had twice the number of spoke persons than the NT? You repeated this point here. Therefore, it would seem that you are trying to give the OT Scriptures MORE weight than the NT. Otherwise, what would be the point in mentioning this twice?
The point being that if one fails in studying the full story they miss most of the truth given on the topic.
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1,541
87
48
#27
If you believe that eternal life is ONLY through keeping the Commandments, then you are making the same mistake the Jews made. They turned Salvation into a "Works Salvation."

The Jews had placed many commandments in the Torah that were not in the OT scrolls. Example: Many of the washing requirements are not from the Lord. Also, the rules surrounding the Sabbath are far more legalistic than the Lord intended them to be, if properly understood. The Torah held many traditions that were incorporated by the religious sectors - this prompted our Lord to proclaim the following:

Mar 7:6 And he said unto them, Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoreth me with their lips, But their heart is far from me.
Mar 7:7 But in vain do they worship me, Teaching as their doctrines the precepts of men.
Mar 7:8 Ye leave the commandment of God, and hold fast the tradition of men.
Mar 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well do ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your tradition.
Mar 7:10 For Moses said, Honor thy father and thy mother; and, He that speaketh evil of father or mother, let him die the death:
Mar 7:11 but ye say, If a man shall say to his father or his mother, That wherewith thou mightest have been profited by me is Corban, that is to say, Given to God;
Mar 7:12 ye no longer suffer him to do aught for his father or his mother;
Mar 7:13 making void the word of God by your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things ye do.
If you read my post you know that isn't the case. I however have came to expect this on here. Sad as it may be, and no matter how I point to FAITH as the grounds of salvation, in both O.T. and N.T. someone always wishes to say I think the law is the foundation of everything. Though in truth it kind of is. As we know the first time we see the works of faith, slavation, and grace are in Torah. Yet Yeshua is the one that said to follow the Commandments not me.
As to the passages you gave, do you even understand what it speaks of?
 
Oct 14, 2023
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#28
In almost ever thread I have opened, many things have became clear to me. However the most common is how badly some misunderstand the Torah. So with this threat, we will look at them, and try to give the truth of what thous laws are, how they work, and why. Now please don't come in and try to say I am trying to say, FOLLOW THE LAW. In all truth, everyone of us has the responsibility to seek the truth, and work out our own salvation. Phl. 2:12-13.
So when we see a teaching that isn't in line with our own understanding it would do us good to hear it out. Why, well if we do as has been done in every thread I have ever opened, and try to beat someone into following our understanding, we push them further away. Why is do you think that the Jewish people will not speak with most people that say they are Christian? I can tell you from first hand experience. It took me a long time find a Rabbi willing to discuss their understanding. I found it odd that I was told to check my doctrine at the door. You see at first I didn't understand. I only said I would do my best. Don't get me wrong, I know my place, and understood that by entering into someones space, you must do so with respect of their understanding, and place in life. Bulling them, telling them how wrong they are, and never slowing down to get the full story of their walk, is doing Satan's work for him.
This has been, is still done, and from the looks of things will keep going on. The Jewish people in no way wish to push on you their understanding, just as they don't want you to do that to them. just I am not seeking your understanding, nor wish to force you to follow mine. We must learn to talk, and speak clearly of our intent, and understanding. Never say anything that can be seen as working both sides of the fence, or be so indoctrinated that we blind our selves. If we can do that, we can learn.
I find it sad that on a site full of so called believers, this the kind of retrospection one will get. That is if you don't buckle to the ideas of others. Then when you get enough of that, and stand up for your self, your the one they say is wrong. Yet in all truth, if they are truly believers, and honest, they would see how wrong their own action was.
Don't get me wrong, I am almost 100% sure the same thing will be tried on this thread as well. So if you are one of them that do this, you will not be getting any reply from me at all.
So did I learn? By being polite, and asking relevant questions. That is questions that relate to the TOPIC at hand. I learned more in a week than I ever did in any church. And trust me I attended many different denominations in my quest for truth. I was once a follower of the doctrine of law bad. I understood it was nailed to the cross, and held no relevance for the christian. Yet I learned I was wrong.
We are supposed to follow the Law of God.

All 10 Commandments.

We just aren't expected to do so as a means of Salvation.

We do so out of love for God, just as Christ and John said.

John 14:15
John 15:14
1 John 5:3

And just as Jesus taught (Matt. 23:1-3)

... and did (John 15:10)

... and His followers did (Luke 23:54-56)(Acts 21:24).
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1,541
87
48
#29
If you believe that eternal life is ONLY through keeping the Commandments, then you are making the same mistake the Jews made. They turned Salvation into a "Works Salvation."

The Jews had placed many commandments in the Torah that were not in the OT scrolls. Example: Many of the washing requirements are not from the Lord. Also, the rules surrounding the Sabbath are far more legalistic than the Lord intended them to be, if properly understood. The Torah held many traditions that were incorporated by the religious sectors - this prompted our Lord to proclaim the following:

Mar 7:6 And he said unto them, Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoreth me with their lips, But their heart is far from me.
Mar 7:7 But in vain do they worship me, Teaching as their doctrines the precepts of men.
Mar 7:8 Ye leave the commandment of God, and hold fast the tradition of men.
Mar 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well do ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your tradition.
Mar 7:10 For Moses said, Honor thy father and thy mother; and, He that speaketh evil of father or mother, let him die the death:
Mar 7:11 but ye say, If a man shall say to his father or his mother, That wherewith thou mightest have been profited by me is Corban, that is to say, Given to God;
Mar 7:12 ye no longer suffer him to do aught for his father or his mother;
Mar 7:13 making void the word of God by your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things ye do.
After looking back I may have misspoke, for that I am sorry. Although I had made it clear in post #20 that salvation comes by faith, and not by any work of our own, I did fail to build on that. So it is likely that it was over looked. That is my reason for saying we must read everything, not just a part here or there.
If one only reads a part of something, they can find themselves missing a lot. Even to the point of removing context that must be seen if we are understand.
However that in no way changes the fact that we show our faith by our works. was what Paul said in James 2:18. Even Abraham shows this. You see his story of salvation can be warped up in his actions. So lets look at it, as a snapshot in his life.
He was called to do something. It was in faith Abram walked away from the only life he ever know. So we have faith, followed by obedience. Later Abram was told to go and sacrifice Issac. In faith Abram obeyed, and set out to do as he was told. Again faith followed by obedience. We will get into this a bit deeper in a bit. So please stay tuened to this same bat channel for more exciting adventures. LOL
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1,541
87
48
#30
We are supposed to follow the Law of God.

All 10 Commandments.

We just aren't expected to do so as a means of Salvation.

We do so out of love for God, just as Christ and John said.

John 14:15
John 15:14
1 John 5:3

And just as Jesus taught (Matt. 23:1-3)

... and did (John 15:10)

... and His followers did (Luke 23:54-56)(Acts 21:24).
Please see post #20
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1,541
87
48
#31
You sound like you might be interested in listening to the BEMA podcast, which works through the Bible from Genesis to Revelation for this perspective, and when it gets to the NT, it really hammers home how much of it is rooted in the OT. Still, everything in the NT being a quote or reference to the OT except John 11:35 seems a little high, though I think it is closer that being true of around 1/3 of the verses in the NT.

https://www.bemadiscipleship.com/
I wish to say thank you once more for the link. I listened to the first one, and though I may not agree with everything said, it does give food for thought. So I will be going back to it with an open mind.
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1,541
87
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#32
When we look at the RED LETTERS, do we take it to heart? I know everyone will say yes to this. Yet some of the same peopel will turn to Paul to try and dismiss the Words of Yeshua. Do they know they are doing this? I really don't think they do. just as I really don't think they hold an understanding of those same red letters. Here is why I think this.
Jhn 3:16"For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.
many seem to understand this as Faith alone is what is needed. Forget about obedience, we don't have anything to be obedient to any more. After all the Law was nailed to the cross, and stayed there. Some even say that the law was done away with, and will turn a passage that is clearly saying the opposite. (Mat.5:17) As we should know, even Satan knows there is only one HaShem, and he wets his pants when we call on Him to fight against the works of darkness. James 2:19. Yet we told,
Rom 2:13For merely listening to the law doesn't make us right with God. It is obeying the law that makes us right in his sight. Even Yeshua told us,
Mat 19:17“Why ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. But to answer your question—if you want to receive eternal life, keep the commandments.”
As should be clear from the passages given as well as the examples left in Torah, in Yeshua's walk, his words, and in every book of the Word, faith must walk hand in hand with obedience. When we fail to stay with in the Law, we seek forgiveness, as we should. Yeshua's blood washes away our sins, freeing us from the condemnation of sin. (feel free to replace sin with Law.) Yet if we then think we are free of the law, then Satan comes along and brings sin into our life. Much to his joy, some don't think they can sin anymore. After all they are free of the law right?
Next time we will turn to Torah and see if we can find this in action.
 
Oct 14, 2023
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#33
TTrust me when I say, and will repeat many times, none of us can say we hold an understanding that is without question the only truth out there.
If this were true, the Bible would be completely pointless. Why would God have gone to all the trouble of having written through so many of His faithful prophets throughout the centuries if none of us could ever be certain what is true and what is not? That's what the guidance of the Holy Spirit is for also. It's been tampered with, sure, but when one studies the Bible in its entirety, all uncertainties become unveiled.

I'm not sure what post #20 had to with obeying the 10 Commandments or the fact that they are still to be obeyed by Christians.

Please specify so I will understand your position.

Thanks and God bless.
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1,541
87
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#34
You like circles I see. Well I really don't. What I said in post #20 is clear, the Law stands.
As to the fact that not one person holds an understanding of the Word that can't be questioned, if you place your understanding out there, someone will question it. To make my point.
Even though you may say you only follow the 10 commandments you follow more than just that trust me. Do you give, stand against homosexuality, bless Israel, and so no?
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
1,629
490
83
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#35
If you read my post you know that isn't the case. I however have came to expect this on here. Sad as it may be, and no matter how I point to FAITH as the grounds of salvation, in both O.T. and N.T. someone always wishes to say I think the law is the foundation of everything. Though in truth it kind of is. As we know the first time we see the works of faith, slavation, and grace are in Torah. Yet Yeshua is the one that said to follow the Commandments not me.
As to the passages you gave, do you even understand what it speaks of?
Of course I don't know what those verses mean... (Said with a great deal of sarcasm), that's why I pulled them out of thin air to show how Jewish "traditions" had perverted the Truth of one of God's Commandments.

Let's clarify something here. When Jesus said: John 14:15 If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments. This is an expression of ones love for the Lord. The more one loves the Lord and rejects the world system, the more that one will keep the commandments that have been revealed to that one. This was also spoken of in Exodus: Exo 20:5b for I Jehovah thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, upon the third and upon the fourth generation of them that hate me,
Exo 20:6 and showing lovingkindness unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

The Jews mistook this, and other things, as a basis of works Salvation. Not fully realizing, that its ultimate completion was in Jesus Christ, whom they rejected as their Messiah.

Every true believer, has his/her Faith in Jesus Christ and Christ alone. He is the Author and Finisher of our Salvation. As fallen people, in Adam, we can not keep the Law or any of the commandments to God's Just satisfaction. It is by being in Christ that we have the imputation of His Righteousness and all other requirements to satisfy God's Holy Judgement.

John 14:15, was further qualified in John 15:10: If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. The more one keeps the commandments, the more that one abides in the Love of the Lord. In other words, the greater the fellowship that one will have with the Lord and the Father.

You say you understand these things... and that is great. May the Lord be praised. However, being as kind as I can, your posts that I read, are at best, difficult to follow. The posts tend to ramble and the main point of your post is somewhat lost. Your constant use of the word "Torah" can throw a lot of people off. This might be helpful when talking to Jewish people but will probably have the opposite effect on Christians.

Go in peace.
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1,541
87
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#36
As I said we are now going to look at Torah and see if we can find faith followed by obedience as the way to salvation. Please keep in mind that Yeshua said that to find life we must follow the commandments. Mat. 19:17.
Noah, thought not what many would see as a shining example of faith, was found to be righteous in the eyes of HaShem. As we can see in Gen. 7:1, yet what lead to this finding by HaShem? Was it that Noah minded his own business? No it was that Noah walked as best he know how in the Laws of HaShem. (We will get to the Law being a real thing before Sinai in the next post.)
What we can see is that Noah was told to build a boat. Now keep in mind that some teach, and I do understand why, that man didn't know what rain was. You see, this is the first time rain is seen in the Word, so it does hold that as the reasoning. Now one must think of where Noah was, as we are not told he lived on an island all alone, or in a rain forest, or anything about it. So anything we are told on that is nothing more than the ideas of man.
Yet in the end we find that Noah was told to do a job for HaShem, and he got right on it. Even at the age of lets say 598. Oh I know the Word is clear he was 600 when the flood covered the earth. I am giving him 2 years to build the boat. Just my thinking on that is all. After all you don't build any thing that size in a week, even today.
Noah acted with faith, and his obedience saved man kind. What do we see then? Faith followed by obedience, lead to life. Now can I say that had Noah walked in faith alone, HaShem would have built the boat for Him? in all truth we can't, we must look at what is, not what might have been. Just as we can't say that if Noah obeyed with out faith things would have stayed the same. We simple don't know.
However, we do know that it takes faith to undertake a task ordered by HaShem, when you don't know what rain is, much less understand a flood that will cover the whole earth.
Next time we will look at Abram. That willl take more than one post for sure.
 
Oct 14, 2023
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#37
You like circles I see. Well I really don't. What I said in post #20 is clear, the Law stands.
As to the fact that not one person holds an understanding of the Word that can't be questioned, if you place your understanding out there, someone will question it. To make my point.
Even though you may say you only follow the 10 commandments you follow more than just that trust me. Do you give, stand against homosexuality, bless Israel, and so no?
It all falls under the 10 Commandments, one way or another.
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1,541
87
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#38
Of course I don't know what those verses mean... (Said with a great deal of sarcasm), that's why I pulled them out of thin air to show how Jewish "traditions" had perverted the Truth of one of God's Commandments.

Let's clarify something here. When Jesus said: John 14:15 If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments. This is an expression of ones love for the Lord. The more one loves the Lord and rejects the world system, the more that one will keep the commandments that have been revealed to that one. This was also spoken of in Exodus: Exo 20:5b for I Jehovah thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, upon the third and upon the fourth generation of them that hate me,
Exo 20:6 and showing lovingkindness unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

The Jews mistook this, and other things, as a basis of works Salvation. Not fully realizing, that its ultimate completion was in Jesus Christ, whom they rejected as their Messiah.

Every true believer, has his/her Faith in Jesus Christ and Christ alone. He is the Author and Finisher of our Salvation. As fallen people, in Adam, we can not keep the Law or any of the commandments to God's Just satisfaction. It is by being in Christ that we have the imputation of His Righteousness and all other requirements to satisfy God's Holy Judgement.

John 14:15, was further qualified in John 15:10: If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. The more one keeps the commandments, the more that one abides in the Love of the Lord. In other words, the greater the fellowship that one will have with the Lord and the Father.

You say you understand these things... and that is great. May the Lord be praised. However, being as kind as I can, your posts that I read, are at best, difficult to follow. The posts tend to ramble and the main point of your post is somewhat lost. Your constant use of the word "Torah" can throw a lot of people off. This might be helpful when talking to Jewish people but will probably have the opposite effect on Christians.

Go in peace.
At the risk of being a bit misunderstood, I am going to make some points you may not understand, or like. Then as in any conversation that happens.
First you may see me as lost by this, however I place my faith in HaShem. It was Him that gave us salvation from the start, and Him that gave His son, and Him that said Have others gods before me. This in no way tarnishes what Yeshua did for us. However as seen in Rev. 14:12 we are to have the OF Yeshua. It doesn't say faith in, it says OF. So it with this and other passages that I place faith the one that has given us salvation from the foundation of the earth. The One that has shown us in all that He has done, what it takes to find said salvation. We are not place our faith in the sacrifice, or the one being sacrificed. That would be like thinking a 4 legged lamb can grant salvation. Oh I do know, and believe that Yeshua willing gave His life for us, yet I also believe that Yeshua and HaShem are one in the same. If not then are we not following after 2 gods?
I don't think one can pass judgement on a nation for the actions of it's leaders. As we know, the religious leaders of that time, did what we can see our nations leaders doing today. They seen a chance to become rich, and twisted what they understood in a way that placed more power in their own hands, and forced others to follow. True some of they had done is unknown to us, so we should not think we have the answers that are not there. So am I lost over the fact that I place my trust in HaShem when it comes to salvation? Lets let HaShem be the judge of that shale we.
Now as to your comment on fellowship. The Torah as we know is the foundation of everything we find in the Word. Nothing that is found in any part of the Word can't be found there. So if my use of Torah as the bedrock of my faith is unsettling to anyone, I will not apologize, nor will I stop looking to it as the best foundation to build on.
One sacrifce that I made note of on here is the fellowship offering. Something that every true believer does today. Oh we don't run to an alter and offer burnt offerings, yet we do give. Some to the point that they may think, Opps, now how do I pay this bill? If said gift/offering was done through faith and obedience, that bill will get paid. Why? HaShem has told us, He will meet our needs. Not our wants, our needs.
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1,541
87
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#39
It all falls under the 10 Commandments, one way or another.
Do you follow the feast? Any of them? Passover is teh most common feast that some say they follow.
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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#40
As we look at Abram, we start in Gen. 12. As this opens we find HaShem telling Abram, "Hay pack your bags and leave your family, home land, and way of life behind, then come and follow Me." Ok so I am not posting the exact words, sue me. However I am giving the intent. So why would I say it the way I have? It has more to do with perspective. We all know that the life of Yeshua can be seen as a mirror of the people. (The people always refer to Abraham and his decedents.) His life followed the same path, Born in the Land, (the Land is always Israel) went to Egypt to save His life, returned to the land, wandered in the wilderness, so on.
As we read on w find that Abram set up camp in a placed called oak of Moreh. There is an understanding that this can also be called the Hill of the Teacher. It is never said in detail what took place here, though it must hold some significance or it wouldn't be there. The sages, teach that just as Yeshua's life mirrored that of the people, so to did Abram's. As we can see that if we really look at all 3, and seek to understand.
That said, it has became clear that the Hill of the Teacher can be seen in the same light as Sinai. After all HaShem did say of Abraham,
Gen 26:5I will do this because Abraham listened to me and obeyed all my requirements, commands, decrees, and instructions."
So it is clear that Abram must have known the Law before it was given at Sinai. So one can see why the correlation between the 2 places. Abram may well have been given the Law in this place. Took upon himself to follow in all that was said, and then was seen as righteous in the eyes of HaShem. Gen. 15:6, Rom. 4:3, Gal. 3:6, Jam. 2:23.
If we open our minds to the facts, as given in the word, we may not see things in the same manner, however the details are more than a bit coincidental.
Take the reason Abram went to Egypt, a famine had forced the move. Gen. 12:10. Does it sound like anything we know?
When we get back to this, we will look at this a bit more. the What, why, and how if we can.
Don't forget, we will be on the same bat channel, hope to see there.