The right why to learn
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Excuse me sir.. But the Topic of your post is: "The right way to learn".
The conversation that I was having with you, was based on things which you had already proclaimed - narrowed to your understanding of God. I was questioning them, as to there proper Hermeneutics, Interpretation and Understanding. WHICH ARE THE PROPER WAYS TO LEARN. But as I said earlier... Go on with your private exposition.
I am out of here.
The conversation that I was having with you, was based on things which you had already proclaimed - narrowed to your understanding of God. I was questioning them, as to there proper Hermeneutics, Interpretation and Understanding. WHICH ARE THE PROPER WAYS TO LEARN. But as I said earlier... Go on with your private exposition.
I am out of here.
Those following the hebrews roots movement are modern day judiazers seeking to trick people in to going back under the old testament laws... they have fallen from grace just like the Galatians who had been "bewitched"
They claim if one speaks in hebrews they'll be closer to the Lord and more important than those who don't and other nefarious BULLoney
By putting your topic on a public talk forum... you are inviting others to comment.
Maybe you should have your own board that is closed to the public!
Don't let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya!
We know this is moving rather fast, and that some may see it as a way to get past the hard things many find to be at odds with my understanding. We will get to them in time, as with any construction, one must always lay the foundation. If we build the walls first, or start at the roof, we do our selves a grave disservice.
As we all know, in the end our salvation, or lack there of will not be decided by man. Even though some have wished to pass judgment in this thread, it holds no sway in how we will walk through this world. Nor how we understand the word. So lets look at judgment now, and see how man kind will be judged in the end. As is our custom we will start with the foundation.
We have been put to task on this topic in the past by some that hold little or no understanding of Torah. As we know Yeshua lived out the Torah perfectly in his life. To be without sin, was the only way He could be our sacrifice that washes away our sin. More on that later.
Gen 18:20So the LORD told Abraham, “I have heard a great outcry from Sodom and Gomorrah, because their sin is so flagrant.
As we know from past post, sin is the transgration of the Law. If their is no law to condem our actions, then their is no sin. So we know that HaShem being just would never pass judgment on a people that had no idea they were doing wrong. Yet we find that Sadom was judged, and we know what came of them due to their sin.
Exo 4:24On the way to Egypt, at a place where Moses and his family had stopped for the night, the LORD confronted him and was about to kill him.
Exo 4:25But Moses’ wife, Zipporah, took a flint knife and circumcised her son. She touched his feet with the foreskin and said, “Now you are a bridegroom of blood to me.”
Now before you get upset and think I am telling you to go get circumcised, remember that is a sign given to the desendants of Abraham and was never intended for the nations. Even though it will become a requirement for the gentiles in some circumstances. (More on that later.) However as we see HaShem was judging in accordance with his law.
Num 13:31But the other men who had explored the land with him disagreed. "We can't go up against them! They are stronger than we are!"
We are sure that most everyone knows this story. It shows us that a lack of faith is also sinful.
Num 14:9Do not rebel against the LORD, and don't be afraid of the people of the land. They are only helpless prey to us! They have no protection, but the LORD is with us! Don't be afraid of them!"
Num 14:22not one of these people will ever enter that land. They have all seen my glorious presence and the miraculous signs I performed both in Egypt and in the wilderness, but again and again they have tested me by refusing to listen to my voice.
Aswe can see, when one doesn't listen to the Words of HaShem they lose favor. This is why Israel falls under judgment time and again.
Num 18:22“From now on, no Israelites except priests or Levites may approach the Tabernacle. If they come too near, they will be judged guilty and will die.
As we know there is no temple at this time, yet if we know Torah as Yeshua did, and live by it as Yeshua did, then we understand that one commandment was given as to how, when, who, and why one may enter the Temple. This judgment is in line with the laws that govern the Temple services.
Jdg 2:13They abandoned the LORD to serve Baal and the images of Ashtoreth.
Jdg 2:15Every time Israel went out to battle, the LORD fought against them, causing them to be defeated, just as he had warned. And the people were in great distress.
As we all know the first commandment was to to have have no other gods. So when HaShem handed out this punishment, it was due to their violation of Torah. Just as many today will say that doing this is sinful. Yet at the same time they wish to say the law doesn't apply to us, as it was nailed to the cross and left there.
We can work through the Tanakh showing time after time that Israel was judged by their lack of faith, and disobedience. Yet as is made clear from the words of some on here, it is understood.
In our next post we will look at what the N.T. tells us on this topic.
As we all know, in the end our salvation, or lack there of will not be decided by man. Even though some have wished to pass judgment in this thread, it holds no sway in how we will walk through this world. Nor how we understand the word. So lets look at judgment now, and see how man kind will be judged in the end. As is our custom we will start with the foundation.
We have been put to task on this topic in the past by some that hold little or no understanding of Torah. As we know Yeshua lived out the Torah perfectly in his life. To be without sin, was the only way He could be our sacrifice that washes away our sin. More on that later.
Gen 18:20So the LORD told Abraham, “I have heard a great outcry from Sodom and Gomorrah, because their sin is so flagrant.
As we know from past post, sin is the transgration of the Law. If their is no law to condem our actions, then their is no sin. So we know that HaShem being just would never pass judgment on a people that had no idea they were doing wrong. Yet we find that Sadom was judged, and we know what came of them due to their sin.
Exo 4:24On the way to Egypt, at a place where Moses and his family had stopped for the night, the LORD confronted him and was about to kill him.
Exo 4:25But Moses’ wife, Zipporah, took a flint knife and circumcised her son. She touched his feet with the foreskin and said, “Now you are a bridegroom of blood to me.”
Now before you get upset and think I am telling you to go get circumcised, remember that is a sign given to the desendants of Abraham and was never intended for the nations. Even though it will become a requirement for the gentiles in some circumstances. (More on that later.) However as we see HaShem was judging in accordance with his law.
Num 13:31But the other men who had explored the land with him disagreed. "We can't go up against them! They are stronger than we are!"
We are sure that most everyone knows this story. It shows us that a lack of faith is also sinful.
Num 14:9Do not rebel against the LORD, and don't be afraid of the people of the land. They are only helpless prey to us! They have no protection, but the LORD is with us! Don't be afraid of them!"
Num 14:22not one of these people will ever enter that land. They have all seen my glorious presence and the miraculous signs I performed both in Egypt and in the wilderness, but again and again they have tested me by refusing to listen to my voice.
Aswe can see, when one doesn't listen to the Words of HaShem they lose favor. This is why Israel falls under judgment time and again.
Num 18:22“From now on, no Israelites except priests or Levites may approach the Tabernacle. If they come too near, they will be judged guilty and will die.
As we know there is no temple at this time, yet if we know Torah as Yeshua did, and live by it as Yeshua did, then we understand that one commandment was given as to how, when, who, and why one may enter the Temple. This judgment is in line with the laws that govern the Temple services.
Jdg 2:13They abandoned the LORD to serve Baal and the images of Ashtoreth.
Jdg 2:15Every time Israel went out to battle, the LORD fought against them, causing them to be defeated, just as he had warned. And the people were in great distress.
As we all know the first commandment was to to have have no other gods. So when HaShem handed out this punishment, it was due to their violation of Torah. Just as many today will say that doing this is sinful. Yet at the same time they wish to say the law doesn't apply to us, as it was nailed to the cross and left there.
We can work through the Tanakh showing time after time that Israel was judged by their lack of faith, and disobedience. Yet as is made clear from the words of some on here, it is understood.
In our next post we will look at what the N.T. tells us on this topic.
As we work through this part, it is important for you to understand one thing. The way one sees HaShem, only becomes important in our own minds. You will not be told how, or what to believe.
As stated, I once followed 3 let's say people. God, Jesus, and a separate Spirit. As of now, I don't see this as a Christian does, nor the Jewish people do. However, for Judgement in the N.T. clarity must be made. In my next post, I will address this from Gen. through Rev.
As stated, I once followed 3 let's say people. God, Jesus, and a separate Spirit. As of now, I don't see this as a Christian does, nor the Jewish people do. However, for Judgement in the N.T. clarity must be made. In my next post, I will address this from Gen. through Rev.
When it comes to how one person sees the idea of HaShem being just one, or 3 it is something they must study out and deside for them selves. However as I was asked for my understanding, and said I would get to it, here we are. Besides when we speak of judgement we must have an understanding of where the other is on this topic. It can save time, and help to avoid the whole non-argument that can spring up. I say non-argument, as it really isn't a factor in ones salvation.
First we will look at 3 different teachings on the following passage.
Gen 1:26Then God said, “Let us make human beings in our image, to be like us. They will reign over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, the livestock, all the wild animals on the earth, and the small animals that scurry along the ground.”
First we have the idea that HaShem was speaking to Yeshua. there are 2 things that would make it hard to disagree with this.
1- We know from scripture that Yeshua is the one slain from the foundation the world.
2- We know from John chapter 1 that Yeshua was there.
However some will say that being as Yeshua and HaShem are one in the same, and HaShem knew from the start that Yeshua would be a sacrifice for mans sin, that both can be seen as nothing more than a matter of semantics.
In the second teaching we find that HaShem was speaking to Himself. After all in Gen. 1:1 the Hebrew word. el·o·hem' was used. As this is also a plural form, it can be seen as HaShem speaking of all His attributes, from creator to judge. There some 72 attributes given in the Tanakh that are all used to denote HaShem. Yet with 72 titles, there is still just one.
The thread is what I follow. HaShem was speaking with the angles. As they were also created as spiritual beings, and had the power of HaShem in them. However when we look at Lucifer, we see that man did get the rebellion we all hold from him. Though these are just a theory's and not one can be backed by scripture, it does us good to understand this. we can debate it to the end of time, and not once will there ever be a definitive answer. So before we get into this passages says this or that, lets keep mind that we will most likely get to them in time. So if you have a reply to this post, and the passages given, let talk. However if you get into a passage that will be covered later, I may give a short reply before moving on. I know that some have a hard time with this, that is why I asked in the opening of this thread that we stay on topic. The topic here is chapter 1 of Gen. NOT N.T. said, please keep this in mind.
First we will look at 3 different teachings on the following passage.
Gen 1:26Then God said, “Let us make human beings in our image, to be like us. They will reign over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, the livestock, all the wild animals on the earth, and the small animals that scurry along the ground.”
First we have the idea that HaShem was speaking to Yeshua. there are 2 things that would make it hard to disagree with this.
1- We know from scripture that Yeshua is the one slain from the foundation the world.
2- We know from John chapter 1 that Yeshua was there.
However some will say that being as Yeshua and HaShem are one in the same, and HaShem knew from the start that Yeshua would be a sacrifice for mans sin, that both can be seen as nothing more than a matter of semantics.
In the second teaching we find that HaShem was speaking to Himself. After all in Gen. 1:1 the Hebrew word. el·o·hem' was used. As this is also a plural form, it can be seen as HaShem speaking of all His attributes, from creator to judge. There some 72 attributes given in the Tanakh that are all used to denote HaShem. Yet with 72 titles, there is still just one.
The thread is what I follow. HaShem was speaking with the angles. As they were also created as spiritual beings, and had the power of HaShem in them. However when we look at Lucifer, we see that man did get the rebellion we all hold from him. Though these are just a theory's and not one can be backed by scripture, it does us good to understand this. we can debate it to the end of time, and not once will there ever be a definitive answer. So before we get into this passages says this or that, lets keep mind that we will most likely get to them in time. So if you have a reply to this post, and the passages given, let talk. However if you get into a passage that will be covered later, I may give a short reply before moving on. I know that some have a hard time with this, that is why I asked in the opening of this thread that we stay on topic. The topic here is chapter 1 of Gen. NOT N.T. said, please keep this in mind.
You cannot study Genesis chapter 1 and ignore John chapter 1. That is not how proper Bible study is done. And the two chapters together make it crystal clear that the eternal Godhead consists of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. ONE GOD, yet three divine persons. This is "the mystery" of God, and the Father, and of Christ.
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As we know this isn't over, so to try and make a claim that I am ignoring any part of the topic is a bit premature. As to how one see's HaShem, that is best left to the one looking. As for us, we will never say HaShem lied to us, so when He tells He is one, we tend to believe Him and not man's ideas.
This is not totally honest if you know your Bible. God has not only said He is "one" (Mark 12:29 quoting Deuteronomy 6:4). He has also said He is "two". And He has also said He is "three".
God is at least TWO (John 1:1; 1 Timothy 3:16 (KJB and all Greek manuscripts); Hebrews 1:8,9 (quoted from Psalm 45:6,7).
God is actually THREE (Matthew 28:19; Acts 5:4; 1 John 5:7 (KJB).
Therefore Christians believe that there is only ONE true God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). And He is definitely NOT called "HaShem" in either the OT or the NT.
God is at least TWO (John 1:1; 1 Timothy 3:16 (KJB and all Greek manuscripts); Hebrews 1:8,9 (quoted from Psalm 45:6,7).
God is actually THREE (Matthew 28:19; Acts 5:4; 1 John 5:7 (KJB).
Therefore Christians believe that there is only ONE true God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). And He is definitely NOT called "HaShem" in either the OT or the NT.
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As we know Abraham had talked with the LORD. As is seen in Gen. 18. What many over look is that there would have been quit sometime spent with HaShem, as the cafe was living at the time it was picked to feed HaShem. We have no idea what was talked about, or what understanding was passed on to Abraham in that time. So let's look at what we are told, and seek to better understand this.
Gen 18:3"My lord," he said, "if it pleases you, stop here for a while.
There are many that see this as being Yeshua, and that HaShem Himself was not there. Yet the question must be asked, if they are one then is it not possible that HaShem in all His wisdom was the one with whom Abraham spoke? After all we know full well that HaShem can show Himself in any form He wishes to use. Be it man or beast.
True if we were to see HaShem in His full glory we wouldn't live to tell the tail. Yet if He showed Himself as man, it would not be in His full glory.
Gen 18:18"For Abraham will certainly become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth will be blessed through him.
As we look at this passage we must understand that HaShem has done the same for us today. When we read, and study prophecy we are seeing what is to come. Sorry, that had to be put in.
Gen 18:19I have singled him out so that he will direct his sons and their families to keep the way of the LORD by doing what is right and just. Then I will do for Abraham all that I have promised."
Now for the reason behind this. It has been said by some that HaShem has changed, they use their narrow understanding of Torah as a way to show their understanding. HaShem has always been kind and loving, though like any good father, He also did what needed to be done. Just as a good father corrects their kids, so to HaShem did as much for His chosen people. Again keep in mind we have said that HaShem judges those who sin. As we see in this story. However there is one more thing we wish to point out through this story.
Gen 18:2He looked up and noticed three men
Gen 19:1That evening the two angels came to the entrance of the city of Sodom.
As we see only 2 of the men Abraham had seen made it to the city, and went inside. So what became of the other? This is where one must use both understanding of Who HaShem is, what He is, and most of all, His holiness. As I said before, HaShem is holly and doesn't come in contact with sin, death, or anything that could render Him unclean according to His own laws.
With this as the basses of understanding, one can understand why HaShem didn't go into the city. Yet as we will see when we get there, Yeshua walked among sin, came into contact with the unclean, in ways you will never see HaShem do. This is why it is our understanding that HaShem didn't enter the city, and gives us a hint that it was HaShem and not any other.
For any that think it was Yeshua, and not HaShem, please think as you wish. I am in no way saying follow what I say or your lost. For them that think you must force us to see things your way, please don't wast your time. As has been said, and most likely will be many more times, you have little to no chance of changing our mind. I once followed the idea of 3 gods my self. Then I learned the right way to study is to look at every detail, like 3 men show up for the same mission. Yet only 2 are seen doing the work. Sorry that's the best way I can think to say it.
Gen 18:3"My lord," he said, "if it pleases you, stop here for a while.
There are many that see this as being Yeshua, and that HaShem Himself was not there. Yet the question must be asked, if they are one then is it not possible that HaShem in all His wisdom was the one with whom Abraham spoke? After all we know full well that HaShem can show Himself in any form He wishes to use. Be it man or beast.
True if we were to see HaShem in His full glory we wouldn't live to tell the tail. Yet if He showed Himself as man, it would not be in His full glory.
Gen 18:18"For Abraham will certainly become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth will be blessed through him.
As we look at this passage we must understand that HaShem has done the same for us today. When we read, and study prophecy we are seeing what is to come. Sorry, that had to be put in.
Gen 18:19I have singled him out so that he will direct his sons and their families to keep the way of the LORD by doing what is right and just. Then I will do for Abraham all that I have promised."
Now for the reason behind this. It has been said by some that HaShem has changed, they use their narrow understanding of Torah as a way to show their understanding. HaShem has always been kind and loving, though like any good father, He also did what needed to be done. Just as a good father corrects their kids, so to HaShem did as much for His chosen people. Again keep in mind we have said that HaShem judges those who sin. As we see in this story. However there is one more thing we wish to point out through this story.
Gen 18:2He looked up and noticed three men
Gen 19:1That evening the two angels came to the entrance of the city of Sodom.
As we see only 2 of the men Abraham had seen made it to the city, and went inside. So what became of the other? This is where one must use both understanding of Who HaShem is, what He is, and most of all, His holiness. As I said before, HaShem is holly and doesn't come in contact with sin, death, or anything that could render Him unclean according to His own laws.
With this as the basses of understanding, one can understand why HaShem didn't go into the city. Yet as we will see when we get there, Yeshua walked among sin, came into contact with the unclean, in ways you will never see HaShem do. This is why it is our understanding that HaShem didn't enter the city, and gives us a hint that it was HaShem and not any other.
For any that think it was Yeshua, and not HaShem, please think as you wish. I am in no way saying follow what I say or your lost. For them that think you must force us to see things your way, please don't wast your time. As has been said, and most likely will be many more times, you have little to no chance of changing our mind. I once followed the idea of 3 gods my self. Then I learned the right way to study is to look at every detail, like 3 men show up for the same mission. Yet only 2 are seen doing the work. Sorry that's the best way I can think to say it.
If one wishes to understand HaShem, we must look at His teachings. All of which are found in the Torah. We could spend years in a study on this, and still have more questions than we find answers for. Not saying we are stupid, it's just that students of the Word, we seem to find a 2 new questions for every answer we find. After all, being The Living Word, as we grow so too do the questions we find. It is when we think we know it all, and stop looking for understanding, that we reach a point of being unteachable. More often than not, our own thinking blinds to anything new. After all, if we know it all, we don't need to think right?
As we entered this who,s who to help us understand one anothers thinking, and understanding that we must know how the other thinks on a topic to reach The Truth, and not your truth or mine, we must make it clear why, and what lead us to our understanding.
We know that some wish to move this off the topic at hand, into a place where they want to go. Everyone here should know I am not going down that road. One topic at a time, covered in the order we find them in the Word, is always best. After all one doesn't build the roof of a house first, it's always in the same order. Foundation, (Torah) walls, (Tanakh) Roof, (N.T.) So let's build a wall or 2 to find who HaShem is. So it now time to look at what HaShem tells us about himself.
Deu 32:39Look now; I myself am he! There is no other god but me! I am the one who kills and gives life; I am the one who wounds and heals; no one can be rescued from my powerful hand!
Isa 44:8Do not tremble; do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim my purposes for you long ago? You are my witnesses—is there any other God? No! There is no other Rock—not one!”
Isa 54:5For your Creator will be your husband; the LORD of Heaven’s Armies is his name! He is your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel, the God of all the earth.
Rom 3:30There is only one God, and he makes people right with himself only by faith, whether they are Jews or Gentiles.
Gal 3:20Now a mediator is helpful if more than one party must reach an agreement. But God, who is one, did not use a mediator when he gave his promise to Abraham.
1Ti 1:17All honor and glory to God forever and ever! He is the eternal King, the unseen one who never dies; he alone is God. Amen.
1Ti 2:5For there is only one God and one Mediator who can reconcile God and humanity—the man Christ Jesus.
Even Yeshua has this to say.
Mar 12:29Jesus replied, “The most important commandment is this: ‘Listen, O Israel! The LORD our God is the one and only LORD.
As we said before, we once seen a trinity, or 3 people in the scripture. Also as we have said, that is no longer something we see as truth. Next we will look at the Spirit of HaShem, called mostly The Holy Spirit. Although it will save a lot of time if we can just agree that His Spirit is in fact Him. Though some may wish to limit HaShem in what He can do, rather than just put it out there that He can be anything He wishes, do His will, and work in every person on this earth at the same time, and not miss a beat. So I will give it 2 days to see if we can all agree on this. No reply will be in my mind agreement, and we will move on to look at Yeshua.
As we entered this who,s who to help us understand one anothers thinking, and understanding that we must know how the other thinks on a topic to reach The Truth, and not your truth or mine, we must make it clear why, and what lead us to our understanding.
We know that some wish to move this off the topic at hand, into a place where they want to go. Everyone here should know I am not going down that road. One topic at a time, covered in the order we find them in the Word, is always best. After all one doesn't build the roof of a house first, it's always in the same order. Foundation, (Torah) walls, (Tanakh) Roof, (N.T.) So let's build a wall or 2 to find who HaShem is. So it now time to look at what HaShem tells us about himself.
Deu 32:39Look now; I myself am he! There is no other god but me! I am the one who kills and gives life; I am the one who wounds and heals; no one can be rescued from my powerful hand!
Isa 44:8Do not tremble; do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim my purposes for you long ago? You are my witnesses—is there any other God? No! There is no other Rock—not one!”
Isa 54:5For your Creator will be your husband; the LORD of Heaven’s Armies is his name! He is your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel, the God of all the earth.
Rom 3:30There is only one God, and he makes people right with himself only by faith, whether they are Jews or Gentiles.
Gal 3:20Now a mediator is helpful if more than one party must reach an agreement. But God, who is one, did not use a mediator when he gave his promise to Abraham.
1Ti 1:17All honor and glory to God forever and ever! He is the eternal King, the unseen one who never dies; he alone is God. Amen.
1Ti 2:5For there is only one God and one Mediator who can reconcile God and humanity—the man Christ Jesus.
Even Yeshua has this to say.
Mar 12:29Jesus replied, “The most important commandment is this: ‘Listen, O Israel! The LORD our God is the one and only LORD.
As we said before, we once seen a trinity, or 3 people in the scripture. Also as we have said, that is no longer something we see as truth. Next we will look at the Spirit of HaShem, called mostly The Holy Spirit. Although it will save a lot of time if we can just agree that His Spirit is in fact Him. Though some may wish to limit HaShem in what He can do, rather than just put it out there that He can be anything He wishes, do His will, and work in every person on this earth at the same time, and not miss a beat. So I will give it 2 days to see if we can all agree on this. No reply will be in my mind agreement, and we will move on to look at Yeshua.
- Christ is our Husband:
- I betrothed you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ. - 2 Cor. 11:2
- Christ is our Creator:
- For by Him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through Him and for Him. - Col. 1:16
- Christ is the LORD of Heaven’s armies:
- as Commander of the army of the LORD I have now come. - Joshua 5:14
- Christ is the God of all the earth:
- “I am the Alpha and the Omega, Beginning and End,” says the Lord, “Who is and Who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” - Rev. 1:8
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