When Does A Christian Become Immortality/Born Again?

Your belief that you were saved before baptism is vain, it's not in accordance with scripture. Acts 2:38 very clearly tells you that. It says to repent AND be baptized: Why? For what reason? For the remission (forgiveness) of sins. So it's not until you're baptized that your sins are forgiven. Before baptism you're still in sin and lost. After baptism, your sins are remitted or forgiven, so you're saved. It goes on to say that upon baptism you receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, not before. And if you read further down to verse 47, you see that after doing so, repenting and being baptized, the Lord adds you to the church which is the body of Christ. That's what the scriptures say, so it doesn't matter what you think or believe.

Acts 2:38

38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Thursday 7-6-23 5th. Day Of The Weekly Cycle, Tammuz 17 5783, 16th. Summer Day

Hello, I have been thinking about the OP and the different posts, but have not received any revelation on what Jesus was talking about to Nicodemus. But I'm glad to have an understanding of these views on this thread and more on other site forums.

I was looking at: It is by scripture we as Christians are not Born Again until we are caught up to be with Christ 1 Thessalonians 4:17, and 1 Corinthians 15:51-58

But here are some views from Bing:
In Christianity, being born again means having a spiritual renewal or change of heart by accepting Jesus as the Savior and Lord. It is not about physical birth or external requirements, but about receiving salvation and becoming part of God’s family1.

The phrase “born again” is frequently misinterpreted. Looking at its primary reference, we see that its meaning is not about physical birth, but about experiencing a spiritual renewal. It is an expression used by many Protestants to define the moment or process of fully accepting faith in Jesus Christ. It is an experience when the teachings of Christianity and Jesus become real, and the “born again” acquire a personal relationship with God2.

Also, we will be in prayer about this process.


Bible Gateway passage: John 3:3-8, Colossians 1:15-18, Romans 8:29, Revelation 1:5, 1 Corinthians 15:50, Galatians 4:26, 2 John 1, 2 John 13, Revelation 12:1-5, Hebrews 12:23, Malachi 3:1 - King James Version

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say...
www.biblegateway.com

Love, Walter And Debbie

Verse 37 conveniently comes before verse 38. They heard...faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God...were pricked in their hearts...circumcision of the heart...what shall we do?...their wills were affected...All this is the work of God internally to affect salvation. The mind, heart, and will of these individuals were changed. They had been born from above. So the natural outward response to this inward experience would be to repent and be baptized.

Having a change of heart doesn't save, it's a step, step 2 towards salvation subsequent to belief. After having a change of mind and heart you must be further obedient which requires baptism for the forgiveness of your sins. Sins are NOT forgiven by belief and/or having a change of mind a d heart. The Jews were told what they needed to do and why as well as the benefits to be garnered.
1. Forgiveness of sins
2. Receive the gift of the Holy Ghost
3. Be added to the church by the Lord

Read your first sentence. It's not possible to be "born again" before you were baptized. How can you be born again while still in sin? You may think you were, but you weren't. Totally unscriptural.

The word warns about following manmade traditions. because they have the ability to make God's word of none effect. (Matt. 15:6) In other words they steer people away from God and His lifegiving message. The "sinner's prayer" is not in the bible it is a manmade tradition.

Paul stated having the Holy Spirit is essential to be accepted of God. (Rom. 8:9) Believing does not automatically bring about that reality. We know this from Paul's question recorded in Acts 19, "Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed?" The question shatters the illusion that belief alone provides for the indwelling of the Holy Ghost/Spirit. Further, the question indicates Paul was going to assist the group in receiving the Holy Ghost if they hadn't already had the experience. Please read the entire account in Acts 19:1-6 it provides the answer to how a person becomes born again via water and Spirit. Note: The detailed account mirrors the instructions given by Peter over 25 years earlier when the NT church was birthed.

Peter provided instructions when asked "What must we do?" by those on the Day of Pentecost. It is noted in the last verse when the group was considered born again Christians:


"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, (THEY BELIEVED) and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? (WHAT ELSE IS NECESSARY)

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls." (Acts 2:36-41)

Read your first sentence. It's not possible to be "born again" before you were baptized. How can you be born again while still in sin? You may think you were, but you weren't. Totally unscriptural.

John 15:3 says we are clean by the word. In John 3:3 we are born again by water and the Spirit. Water here is a symbol for the gospel. There is no faith without the word. There is no salvation without the Spirit. But the cleansing inwardly isn't done by water, but by the word.
The reason I spent so much time explaining verse 37 is so you would see that salvation is the work of God.
If you read Isaiah, chapter 53 deals with the accomplishment of salvation. Chapter 54 deals with the benefits of salvation. Chapter 55 is a call to receive salvation. And chapter 56 teaches how we should live having received salvation. Thus, after a sermon is given like the one by Peter, there should always be a call given to the listeners. Where God has been active though the Spirit and the word, those individuals will respond. Where no such activity takes place, those individuals will not respond. Three thousand heard the sermon and responded. How many others heard who did not?
I understand what you believe and why. But the response to the work of God never produces salvation; it merely testifies to it.

I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say, but the bottom line is salvation doesn't occur until you've done all that's required of you, physically as well whether it serves a symbolic nature or not. The gospel is simple. It was simple in biblical times and should be as simple, it mankind makes it difficult and esoteric because of their preconceived notions instead of simply following what the words say. It requires belief and faith, confession of your belief in Christ as dud the Ethiopian eunuch, repentance as tge Jews were told to do on the day of Pentecost, and immersion in water, baptism into Christ, for the remission of sins. That's the simplicity of it. That's what was done in biblical times. That's what the scriptures say. You can believe whatever you like, but the above is what is absolutely required for salvation. Goodbye

Verse 37 conveniently comes before verse 38. They heard...faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God...were pricked in their hearts...circumcision of the heart...what shall we do?...their wills were affected...All this is the work of God internally to affect salvation. The mind, heart, and will of these individuals were changed. They had been born from above. So the natural outward response to this inward experience would be to repent and be baptized.

Note it was AFTER the group believed in Jesus that they were told to repent and be baptized. This alone proves the group was not yet saved in verse 37. As you will recall Jesus said those who do not repent will perish. (Luke 13:3) Verse 41 reveals when the group actually repented. Upon belief and obedience to Peter's message their choice to turn to God changed their lives forever; they were born again:

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, WHAT SHALL WE DO?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers." (Acts 2:37-42)

You preach the false doctrine of baptisimal regeneration. It's been debunked many times by many theologians. I can no longer be bothered arguing about it. I've never yet changed the mind of those who believe it. It's like dealing with the FE people, a waste of time.

Everything after verse 37 was the result of what happened in verse 37. God used the word and the Spirit to give hearing and circumcise their hearts. Having become partakers of the divine nature, they respond.
If it is true that none seek after God in their natural estate...Romans 3, then they must have been changed to desire after Him.

Peter tells the group to save themselves and as scripture reveals those who believed him were baptized. The implication is not all obeyed Peter's instruction:

"And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls." (Acts 2:41)

Thursday 7-6-23 5th. Day Of The Weekly Cycle, Tammuz 17 5783, 16th. Summer Day

Hello, I have been thinking about the OP and the different posts, but have not received any revelation on what Jesus was talking about to Nicodemus. But I'm glad to have an understanding of these views on this thread and more on other site forums.

I was looking at: It is by scripture we as Christians are not Born Again until we are caught up to be with Christ 1 Thessalonians 4:17, and 1 Corinthians 15:51-58

But here are some views from Bing:
In Christianity, being born again means having a spiritual renewal or change of heart by accepting Jesus as the Savior and Lord. It is not about physical birth or external requirements, but about receiving salvation and becoming part of God’s family1.

The phrase “born again” is frequently misinterpreted. Looking at its primary reference, we see that its meaning is not about physical birth, but about experiencing a spiritual renewal. It is an expression used by many Protestants to define the moment or process of fully accepting faith in Jesus Christ. It is an experience when the teachings of Christianity and Jesus become real, and the “born again” acquire a personal relationship with God2.

Also, we will be in prayer about this process.


Bible Gateway passage: John 3:3-8, Colossians 1:15-18, Romans 8:29, Revelation 1:5, 1 Corinthians 15:50, Galatians 4:26, 2 John 1, 2 John 13, Revelation 12:1-5, Hebrews 12:23, Malachi 3:1 - King James Version

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say...
www.biblegateway.com

Love, Walter And Debbie

Just a thought...what are you really trusting in: Jesus or a prescribed set of actions?

The word of God which is and should be our only guide. Trusting in Jesus is following and trusting in what he said to do. The below scripture in Jesus own words are pretty clear.

Mark 16:15-16

15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Belief + baptism = salvation

You realize that is the classic faith plus works paradigm?

What I realize is that it's the word of God spoken of by Christ himself and must be obeyed. Disobey if you like at your own peril.