The Trinity.

The text does not tell us that Abraham had any distinct foresight of the manner of Christ’s birth.

This is simply your assumption and presumption. And it is not "the manner of Christ's birth" but the fact that Christ would become the Lamb of God who took away the sin of the world. Abraham actually prophesied this.

Now if you acknowledge that Jesus is God, then there are already two divine persons in the Godhead -- the Father and the Son. And you cannot deny that the Father is distinct from the Son. Even among humans the father is not the son, neither is the son the father. Therefore you must give up your Anti-Trinitarianism, or be seen as heretical.

Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

The text does not tell us that Abraham had any distinct foresight of the manner of Christ’s birth. That was a mystery which remained locked up in the secret chambers of God’s counsels, until it seemed good to the Holy Ghost to reveal it to the prophet Isaiah. But the meaning of the words My day in the text must clearly be the day or season of Christ’s coming, and dwelling upon earth, the day or season of that earthly life into which He entered. This, then, is the day which our father Abraham rejoiced that he was to see, the day of the coming of Him in whom all the nations of the earth were to be blessed, the day of Christ’s coming to dwell upon earth, in order that He might deliver mankind from their sins.

Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. And the Jews said unto him, You’re not even fifty years old yet, and have you seen Abraham? And Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily I say unto you, before Abraham was, I am (Joh_8:56-58).
This is it. This is His open plain declaration of His divinity. Using now that name of the eternal God. When Moses said, "Whom shall I say sent me?" "Say I Am that I Am hath sent thee." The name that expresses the eternal nature of God. "You’re not fifty years old. You mean that Abraham saw You?" And Jesus said, "Before Abraham was, I am."
Now they understood what He said because,
They took up stones to throw at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so he passed by (Joh_8:59).

Trying not to use personal thoughts as much as possible and where applied praying that God would lead the way. I try my very best to let Scripture interpret itself.

and also if by the word persons you mean separate physical or corporeal bodies If this is what you mean by Trinity than the answer is no. But I will go on to say the word Trinity and Oneness are not found in the bible. But the Bible does teach that God is Absolutely One Deut. 6:4 Answer me this if the One being of God was to look into a mirror and see a reflection, who is that reflection?

First of all why are you changing the subject? John 8:56 has nothing to do with the two questions I ask you. So let me try it this way for the sake of simplicity. We already know God the Father cannot be seen according to Jesus Christ Himself at John 5:37 and at John 6:46.

Since that is true and Jesus would not lie, who appeared (physically) to Abraham at Genesis 17:1-2 claiming to be the Lord God Almighty? Second question is from Genesis 18:1. It says the Lord appeared to Abraham in the heat of the day, so who appeared to him?

Remember, it cannot be God the Father because He cannot be scene, and the Holy Spirit cannot be seen either. So who was it that appeared to him? Let me give you a hint? Of the three persons of the Trinity, and two of them cannot be seen, what person is left? Btw, your aloud to use personal thoughts because God gave us a mind to think and reason.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Your questions are here as follows

So here's a question for you from the OT. At Genesis 17:1, "Now when Abraham was ninety-nine years old, the Lord APPEARED to Abram and said to him, (this was a physical appearance of God) I, am God Almighty; Walk before Me, and be blameless. Who appeared to Abraham claiming to be the Lord God Almighty?

Secondly, at Genesis 18:1, "Now the Lord appeared to him/Abraham by the oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day." Who appeared to Abraham here?

My answer which I didn't believe is changing subject but answering said questions.

Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my (Jesus Christ) day: and he saw it, and was glad.

The text does not tell us that Abraham had any distinct foresight of the manner of Christ’s birth. That was a mystery which remained locked up in the secret chambers of God’s counsels, until it seemed good to the Holy Ghost to reveal it to the prophet Isaiah. But the meaning of the words My day in the text must clearly be the day or season of Christ’s coming, and dwelling upon earth, the day or season of that earthly life into which He entered. This, then, is the day which our father Abraham rejoiced that he was to see, the day of the coming of Him in whom all the nations of the earth were to be blessed, the day of Christ’s coming to dwell upon earth, in order that He might deliver mankind from their sins.

Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. And the Jews said unto him, You’re not even fifty years old yet, and have you seen Abraham? And Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily I say unto you, before Abraham was, I am (Joh_8:56-58).
This is it. This is His open plain declaration of His divinity. Using now that name of the eternal God. When Moses said, "Whom shall I say sent me?" "Say I Am that I Am hath sent thee." The name that expresses the eternal nature of God. "You’re not fifty years old. You mean that Abraham saw You?" And Jesus said, "Before Abraham was, I am."
Now they understood what He said because,
They took up stones to throw at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so he passed by (Joh_8:59).

The preincarnate Christ stood before Abraham in the verses you quoted? All the fullness of the Godhead is found bodily in Christ. So when you see Jesus Christ you are looking at the face of God. At least as fully as we will see it this side of heaven. I take that Scripture no other way. Please help me understand if my answers are wrong.

Actually your answer is right. My point in this exercise was to show the distinction of persons within the Trinity which you deny.

I would go so far as to say that your denial is based on a lack of understanding. According to John 14 Jesus is the only physical manifestation and revelation of God the Father and the Holy Spirit. Does that make sense to you?

In Him,
bluto

That is what I've been trying to convey this whole time, I must have been doing it wrong, for that I am sorry.

No need to apologize. So do you now believe the Trinity is a valid Biblical teaching? If not I can provide more evidence.

In Him,
bluto

Here is plainly what I believe. The One God of Scripture is seen in the face of Jesus Christ. That we agree on. The only problem I have with the doctrine of the Trinity is the use of the phrase three persons. I believe God has manifested himself in three different ways throughout human history and until the end of the age. But God has only ever taken on One person. I don't know if I saying it right but Praise be to God Im trying.

Here is plainly what I believe. The One God of Scripture is seen in the face of Jesus Christ. That we agree on. The only problem I have with the doctrine of the Trinity is the use of the phrase three persons. I believe God has manifested himself in three different ways throughout human history and until the end of the age. But God has only ever taken on One person. I don't know if I saying it right but Praise be to God Im trying.

The Trinity
For clarification, the Trinity is one God in three distinct simultaneous, coeternal persons. God is one substance, a triune substance. There are not three gods. This is not social trinitarianism with three separate centers of consciousness. Instead, it is one God, one divinely simple being who expresses himself to us in three distinct simultaneous persons.

You cannot fully know God's divine Nature outside what he Has allowed limited man to understand.

1. by HIS creation, we know God exists in Romans chapter Genesis chapter 1 to3, and John chapter 1
2. BY His word, He is the Speaking God
3. By a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ


The reason for the Doctrine of " Three Persons" is because the Enteral Godhead is revealed as Such in the Word of God and in Creation.

Do you believe the Holy Spirit is God or a force? Was Jesus wrong for Calling the Holy Spirit " The Spirit of Truth"? The comforter is descriptive of a person's actions or what one does. Jesus, when He prayed, did so as show? The voice that spoke at the Baptism of Jesus and on the Mount of Transfiguration was Jesus throwing his voice?

Jesus mentioned the Father, but he was not really serious? You are walking on very troubled ground. Pride and arrogance are ruling the day. Be humble. You don't fully know all of God's divine Nature; no one can. So stop acting like you do.

The Trinity
For clarification, the Trinity is one God in three distinct simultaneous, coeternal persons. God is one substance, a triune substance. There are not three gods. This is not social trinitarianism with three separate centers of consciousness. Instead, it is one God, one divinely simple being who expresses himself to us in three distinct simultaneous persons.

You cannot fully know God's divine Nature outside what he Has allowed limited man to understand.

1. by HIS creation, we know God exists in Romans chapter Genesis chapter 1 to3, and John chapter 1
2. BY His word, He is the Speaking God
3. By a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ


The reason for the Doctrine of " Three Persons" is because the Enteral Godhead is revealed as Such in the Word of God and in Creation.

Do you believe the Holy Spirit is God or a force? Was Jesus wrong for Calling the Holy Spirit " The Spirit of Truth"? The comforter is descriptive of a person's actions or what one does. Jesus, when He prayed, did so as show? The voice that spoke at the Baptism of Jesus and on the Mount of Transfiguration was Jesus throwing his voice?

Jesus mentioned the Father, but he was not really serious? You are walking on very troubled ground. Pride and arrogance are ruling the day. Be humble. You don't fully know all of God's divine Nature; no one can. So stop acting like you do.

The Trinity
For clarification, the Trinity is one God in three distinct simultaneous, coeternal persons. God is one substance, a triune substance. There are not three gods. This is not social trinitarianism with three separate centers of consciousness. Instead, it is one God, one divinely simple being who expresses himself to us in three distinct simultaneous persons.

You cannot fully know God's divine Nature outside what he Has allowed limited man to understand.

1. by HIS creation, we know God exists in Romans chapter Genesis chapter 1 to3, and John chapter 1
2. BY His word, He is the Speaking God
3. By a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ


The reason for the Doctrine of " Three Persons" is because the Enteral Godhead is revealed as Such in the Word of God and in Creation.

Do you believe the Holy Spirit is God or a force? Was Jesus wrong for Calling the Holy Spirit " The Spirit of Truth"? The comforter is descriptive of a person's actions or what one does. Jesus, when He prayed, did so as show? The voice that spoke at the Baptism of Jesus and on the Mount of Transfiguration was Jesus throwing his voice?

Jesus mentioned the Father, but he was not really serious? You are walking on very troubled ground. Pride and arrogance are ruling the day. Be humble. You don't fully know all of God's divine Nature; no one can. So stop acting like you do.

I agree with most of what you said, HOWEVER, what is this business where you stated Jesus was throwing His voice? And the part where you said Jesus was not serious?

So here's the question for you taken from Mark 1:11, "And a voice came out of heaven, "You are My beloved Son; with You I am well pleased " Is Jesus "throwing His voice here?"

In Him,
bluto

T



You are 100% correct, I don't know all there is to know of God's divine nature and this side of Heaven, i'll never fully know. Main reason why I am here.

You are walking on very troubled ground. Pride and arrogance are ruling the day.

Let me address these two statements:

1. I very well maybe, but I assure you it's not on purpose and I am truly here to learn.
2. I am very far from being pride and arrogant, which hurts by the way, humbly ask forgiveness if any of my writing is harsh or offensive in anyway. I want to truly understand.

With that said; we both seem to both believe 3 in 1 How we get there is different and I want to know which is right according to the Word of God. Not according to you or me, we a fallible human being very capable of making mistakes. I Pray that this forum is a Place of Peace, Righteousness and True Love for God for the Lost as well as the Christian.

Help me in Love to reconcile these two together for clarification. So many times we try to get our words to fit with the Bible, That is wrong thinking the Bible need to match our word and then both are true.

1.) 1Ki 8:27 But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?
2.)Coenternal Person (with full understanding of definition of Person in mind)

Please understand I am not trying an anyway to push my Faith on anyone. He gave each of us a measure of Faith when we were Born Again, what we do with it shows either Grace and Love or Judgement and Justice (which by the way is reserved for God). Please, truly with All sincerity of heart help me understand. Grace be to you And Peace to All

But not the same person. They are three in one.

The issue is the term you used, Manifestation, in context to the three being all Jesus.

A manifestation can be an abstract or a theory yet not be true. Yet some characteristics of the Divine Nature of God are seen in the word of God and recorded as empirical evidence via eyewitness accounts.


The difference from an Oneness approach is they say Jesus is all three manifested in one, Yet the word of God doesn't present t
all three in that way or to be seen as abstract. You can't separate the God who spoke and was known in the Old Tesament and the Spirit of God and HIS Name from what Jesus called HIM in the New Testament.

The Trinity Concept acknowledges the human mind can not fully comprehend the full Nature of God, Yet we can Apprehend
from what's seen in creation, His word, and relationship. We must approach the divine Eternal Godhead reverently and humbly.

• God the Father is seen in the word of God, Yet one
• The Holy Spirit is seen as God, yet one
• Jesus is seen as God, Yet one

Three Distinct Coe-equal, personification separate yet One as = God.

That is the glory of God that no man can fully know.


Yet Oness will tell you other wise. Oness is wrong.

You believe in 3 Gods???... the Lord says there is only ONE God.

It would've been better written using the word shown instead of manifestation (that does sound ghostly). I believe God has shown himself in three different ways throughout human history and until the end of the age.

And would this statement be wrong. But God has only ever taken on One person. I believe anytime throughout the Bible where God appeared to the human race in bodily form, that is was the form of Jesus Christ. Would that be wrong thinking.