The Glasgow razor boy and eternal security
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The IVP Bible Background Commentary
11:17-24. Gentiles could and did become part of the people of God in the Old Testament (e.g., Ruth, Rahab, David’s Cherethite guards, etc.); but they were clearly a small minority. Now that Gentile Christians in Rome have begun to outnumber Jewish Christians, it is easier for them to forget their heritage in Israel’s history.
Israel was sometimes described as a tree, whose roots were the patriarchs (Abraham, Isaac and Jacob). Contrary to standard Jewish teaching, Paul had argued that uncircumcised Gentiles could become part of that people of God through faith in the Jewish Messiah (Romans 4). Now he reminds Gentiles to respect the Jewish people, who had brought them their faith. It was easier for Jewish branches to be grafted back into the true form of their own faith than for pagans who had worshiped idols before their conversion to understand the faith they were now accepting. Like other Jewish teachers of his day, Paul does not regard any particular person’s salvation as guaranteed from the human perspective till they have persevered to the end.
11:17-24. Gentiles could and did become part of the people of God in the Old Testament (e.g., Ruth, Rahab, David’s Cherethite guards, etc.); but they were clearly a small minority. Now that Gentile Christians in Rome have begun to outnumber Jewish Christians, it is easier for them to forget their heritage in Israel’s history.
Israel was sometimes described as a tree, whose roots were the patriarchs (Abraham, Isaac and Jacob). Contrary to standard Jewish teaching, Paul had argued that uncircumcised Gentiles could become part of that people of God through faith in the Jewish Messiah (Romans 4). Now he reminds Gentiles to respect the Jewish people, who had brought them their faith. It was easier for Jewish branches to be grafted back into the true form of their own faith than for pagans who had worshiped idols before their conversion to understand the faith they were now accepting. Like other Jewish teachers of his day, Paul does not regard any particular person’s salvation as guaranteed from the human perspective till they have persevered to the end.
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I am elect according to foreknowledge. That is what the Bible says. Foreknowledge is not some strange mysterious concept. All prophecy is based upon it. No one should be struggling over this.
1 Peter 1:2
“Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.”
1 Peter 1:2
“Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.”
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1 Timothy 4:1
But The Holy Spirit speaks plainly that in the last days they shall depart one by one from the faith and they shall go after deceiving spirits and after the teachings of demons
No debating this Verse means, the SAVED, will DEPART here.
any other explanation, is flat out calling God a LIAR.
But The Holy Spirit speaks plainly that in the last days they shall depart one by one from the faith and they shall go after deceiving spirits and after the teachings of demons
No debating this Verse means, the SAVED, will DEPART here.
any other explanation, is flat out calling God a LIAR.
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I've had just the opposite experience.
Some of the nastiest, most mean and evil people I've ever met were calvinists who actually believed they could live like the devil and there's no way they could not end up in Heaven because ... they are "elect"
There have been people that have done terrible crimes against others that were calvinists... such as Dennis Rader the BTK killer
He was a deacon in the Lutheran Church who hold to some tenants of calvinism (Mart Luther and John Calvin were both big influences in the reformed movement where both teach one cannot lose their salvation even if they live in sin)
Yeah, so when someone tell me they are a calvinist or they are followers of reformed theology... I don't associate with them personally after having had numerous very bad experiences with these false brethren
Some of the nastiest, most mean and evil people I've ever met were calvinists who actually believed they could live like the devil and there's no way they could not end up in Heaven because ... they are "elect"
There have been people that have done terrible crimes against others that were calvinists... such as Dennis Rader the BTK killer
He was a deacon in the Lutheran Church who hold to some tenants of calvinism (Mart Luther and John Calvin were both big influences in the reformed movement where both teach one cannot lose their salvation even if they live in sin)
Yeah, so when someone tell me they are a calvinist or they are followers of reformed theology... I don't associate with them personally after having had numerous very bad experiences with these false brethren
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1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, (sounds like Roman Catholicism) and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.
Show me the specific word "saved" in 1 Timothy 4:1. I don't call God a liar. If God clearly stated that a really "saved" person really "lost their salvation" then I would believe God but that specific statement is found nowhere in Scripture.
The words "the faith" (Greek tês pisteôs) in this context means the apostolic faith, the New Testament apostolic body of doctrines. Some who are in a state of professing adherence to the apostolic faith, nevertheless, will in both doctrine and practice depart from it, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons. Some "nominal" Christians will abandon the Christian faith, the New Testament apostolic body of doctrines for cults or false religions. That does not prove they were previously born again.
In 1 John 2:19, we read - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
I believe the beginning of such a major departing from the apostolic faith was evidenced by the Roman Catholic church in the early 4th century. The Roman Catholic church forbids its clergy to marry. This same church has other doctrines of demons such as transubstantiation, purgatory, indulgences, papal infallibility, Mary's perpetual virginity etc..
Show me the specific word "saved" in 1 Timothy 4:1. I don't call God a liar. If God clearly stated that a really "saved" person really "lost their salvation" then I would believe God but that specific statement is found nowhere in Scripture.
The words "the faith" (Greek tês pisteôs) in this context means the apostolic faith, the New Testament apostolic body of doctrines. Some who are in a state of professing adherence to the apostolic faith, nevertheless, will in both doctrine and practice depart from it, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons. Some "nominal" Christians will abandon the Christian faith, the New Testament apostolic body of doctrines for cults or false religions. That does not prove they were previously born again.
In 1 John 2:19, we read - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
I believe the beginning of such a major departing from the apostolic faith was evidenced by the Roman Catholic church in the early 4th century. The Roman Catholic church forbids its clergy to marry. This same church has other doctrines of demons such as transubstantiation, purgatory, indulgences, papal infallibility, Mary's perpetual virginity etc..
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So you consider ALL believers in the OSAS camp to be false brethren because you've had a bad experience with certain calvinists that you met? 
This sounds very personal for you. You really need to get over your anti-OSAS derangement syndrome and get to know believers in the OSAS camp on an individual basis and stop judging us as mean, evil calvinists who promote a license to sin.
You are absolutely obsessed with relentlessly attacking OSAS (which is not healthy) and you sound very judgmental and biased. May he who is without sin cast the first stone.
This sounds very personal for you. You really need to get over your anti-OSAS derangement syndrome and get to know believers in the OSAS camp on an individual basis and stop judging us as mean, evil calvinists who promote a license to sin. You are absolutely obsessed with relentlessly attacking OSAS (which is not healthy) and you sound very judgmental and biased. May he who is without sin cast the first stone.
you are only given Faith from God to believe one way. that is the Saving Faith in Christ.
Faith, from God to Believe, is to Believe, that only Jesus Saves You and leads you to the Father.
there's nothing else they would be departing from, but the Saving Faith. you only are given faith to believe in order to be SAVED.
and they left this for DEMONIC DOCTRINES.
Faith, from God to Believe, is to Believe, that only Jesus Saves You and leads you to the Father.
there's nothing else they would be departing from, but the Saving Faith. you only are given faith to believe in order to be SAVED.
and they left this for DEMONIC DOCTRINES.
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I already showed you that the words "the faith" (Greek tês pisteôs) in this context means the apostolic faith, the New Testament apostolic body of doctrines and does not unequivocally teach they departed from saving faith in Christ and lost their salvation. Left for demonic doctrines demonstrates that their faith was never firmly rooted and established in the gospel to being with.
Such folks believed in vain. (1 Corinthians 15:1-2) They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. (1 John 2:19)
Such folks believed in vain. (1 Corinthians 15:1-2) They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. (1 John 2:19)
you are using someone's personal lexicon and not the true Greek?
4:1
το δε πνα ρητωϲ
λεγει οτι εν υϲτε
ροιϲ καιροιϲ απο
ϲτηϲονται τινεϲ
τηϲ πιϲτεωϲ προϲ
εχοντεϲ πναϲι
πλανοιϲ και διδα
ϲκαλειαϲ δαιμο
4:1 But the Spirit speaks expressly that in latter times some shall apostatize from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and teachings of demons
tês pisteôs, isn't even in the original Greek!
4:1
το δε πνα ρητωϲ
λεγει οτι εν υϲτε
ροιϲ καιροιϲ απο
ϲτηϲονται τινεϲ
τηϲ πιϲτεωϲ προϲ
εχοντεϲ πναϲι
πλανοιϲ και διδα
ϲκαλειαϲ δαιμο
4:1 But the Spirit speaks expressly that in latter times some shall apostatize from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and teachings of demons
tês pisteôs, isn't even in the original Greek!
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Whether lexicon or concordance, "the faith" is not exclusively defined as saving faith in Christ, but refers to the apostolic faith, the New Testament apostolic body of doctrines (as we also see in Jude 1:3) and just because someone was previously in a state of professing adherence to the apostolic faith does not mean they were truly born again. There are people who believe in vain, whose faith was never firmly rooted and established from the start, which explains the departure.
The Lord preserves His saints forever. (Psalm 37:28) Jesus gives His sheep eternal life (not temporary life) and no one is able to snatch Jesus' sheep from His hand. (John 10:27-28) Believers are sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession. (Ephesians 1:13-14) Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. ALL of them. Notice how Paul uses the past tense for a future event to stress its certainty.
The Lord preserves His saints forever. (Psalm 37:28) Jesus gives His sheep eternal life (not temporary life) and no one is able to snatch Jesus' sheep from His hand. (John 10:27-28) Believers are sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession. (Ephesians 1:13-14) Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. ALL of them. Notice how Paul uses the past tense for a future event to stress its certainty.
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What exactly are you trusting in for salvation? Jesus Christ alone (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) or Jesus Christ + works? I am trusting in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of my salvation. I have found that ALL false religions and cults which promote salvation by works strongly oppose OSAS which has always been a major red flag for me. They would be the last people I would trust concerning my salvation.
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