God's Intervention?

Think of the life of Moses.. Do you think God foreknowing that He would use Moses to lead His people out of Egypt.. caused Moses to escape from being killed at birth? ( that was the order of pharoah for all hebrew babies to be killed at birth) Did God intervene when Moses was a baby in the basket in the reeds when a servant of a Egyptian princess found him and saved him from certain death.. Did God work on the heart of the princess to cuase her to take pity upon baby Moses to adopt him and raise him up so as he would know egyptian high culture so as to be able later to converse with pharaoh.. Now did baby Moses ever pray for Gods intervention to save him when He was an infant? No..

I am sure you have read the story of the prophet Jeremiah who God foreknew and had predetermined to make Him a prophet over the people..

(Jeremiah 1:4-7) "Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, {5} Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. {6} Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! behold, I cannot speak: for I am a child. {7} ¶ But the LORD said unto me, Say not, I am a child: for thou shalt go to all that I shall send thee, and whatsoever I command thee thou shalt speak."

Jeremiah never prayed for this.. He was a kid at the time...

God's character determines His intervention. This has nothing to do with "control" but everything to do with the grace and mercy of God. How come you are so thoroughly confused?

Taking personal jabs at others before you even fully understanding as to what I'm saying , that's just plain juvenile when it comes to the level measure for dialogue

Sorry for giving offence. But you are simply sowing seeds of spiritual confusion. Others have also noted that.

Yes, there are certain things God has determined ahead of time to accomplish his purpose. There are other things that he has not determined and has chosen not to know until man makes the decision when confronted with his word.

But Scripture says that God knows every thought and intent of the heart and noting is hid from His sight..

That is knowledge to be known by God.

Sorry for giving offence. But you are simply sowing seeds of spiritual confusion. Others have also noted that.

So, any scenario one may put forth as the Lord allegedly intervening, it can be asked of each and every one how any one of us can possibly know that the Lord did not enact the very course of things as we have seen them happen to date.

Then all one need do is ask. For the benefit of all, we can look at a solid example with which all can related:

Adam's fall into sin was completely within the Lord's plans for this world. Had that not been the case, then it can be said that:

1) the Lord is caught by surprise when the fall happened, for which there are no indication anywhere in scripture,
2) the Lord would not have endangered His creation by pacing that tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in that garden,
3) The Lord would not have allowed that serpent into the garden that initiated that fall.

There are no other possible alternatives, even though we, in our fallen state, may imagine all manner of what we consider possible alternatives...in reality there never were any.

So, any scenario one may put forth as the Lord allegedly intervening, it can be asked of each and every one how any one of us can possibly know that the Lord did not enact the very course of things as we have seen them happen to date. After all, Christ was slain from the foundation of the world, and so there was no other possible course, no matter what we may imagine in our fallen state here in this fallen world.

MM

Not "TO BE KNOWN" but already known. Big difference. You are another one limiting God.

Then all one need do is ask. For the benefit of all, we can look at a solid example with which all can related:

Adam's fall into sin was completely within the Lord's plans for this world. Had that not been the case, then it can be said that:

1) the Lord is caught by surprise when the fall happened, for which there are no indication anywhere in scripture,
2) the Lord would not have endangered His creation by pacing that tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in that garden,
3) The Lord would not have allowed that serpent into the garden that initiated that fall.

There are no other possible alternatives, even though we, in our fallen state, may imagine all manner of what we consider possible alternatives...in reality there never were any.

So, any scenario one may put forth as the Lord allegedly intervening, it can be asked of each and every one how any one of us can possibly know that the Lord did not enact the very course of things as we have seen them happen to date. After all, Christ was slain from the foundation of the world, and so there was no other possible course, no matter what we may imagine in our fallen state here in this fallen world.

MM

Then all one need do is ask. For the benefit of all, we can look at a solid example with which all can related:

Adam's fall into sin was completely within the Lord's plans for this world. Had that not been the case, then it can be said that:

1) the Lord is caught by surprise when the fall happened, for which there are no indication anywhere in scripture,
2) the Lord would not have endangered His creation by pacing that tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in that garden,
3) The Lord would not have allowed that serpent into the garden that initiated that fall.

There are no other possible alternatives, even though we, in our fallen state, may imagine all manner of what we consider possible alternatives...in reality there never were any.

So, any scenario one may put forth as the Lord allegedly intervening, it can be asked of each and every one how any one of us can possibly know that the Lord did not enact the very course of things as we have seen them happen to date. After all, Christ was slain from the foundation of the world, and so there was no other possible course, no matter what we may imagine in our fallen state here in this fallen world.

MM

There are examples after examples of God repenting, changing his mind based upon man’s response to his word. It’s called grace.

God knew the end from the beginning

True. But in all cases, God knew the end from the beginning. However He wanted us to see how He responds to men, and even changes His mind. The book of Jonah is a good example.

Huh?

There are some hyper-charismatics out there who teach about God's alleged "intervening power."

What is that? How does that work? Where does the Bible elude to such a power that actually needs to be exercised at all by the Most High?

I found an instance where the word "intervene" exists in English translations, specifically in the NIV for Isaiah 59:16, which is not a reference to God at all, and the NKJV for Zephaniah 2:7, which IS a reference to an act by God, but is not necessarily the best translated word in that instance, and is therefore misleading.

Why?

Well, to say that the Lord must intervene in any life or event in this world is to imply that the Lord does not exercise His powerful control over even the atoms in this universe. I like how Justin Peters put it when referring to the most distant galaxy, billions of light years from earth, and point to just one random atom in the center of a random star, a Hydrogen atom, and observing that the Lord is actively holding that atom together, even though it's too far away to have any measurable effect upon us here, on this planet...even there His consisting power is holding that atom together.

Collasians 1:17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon defines the Greek word translated "consist" in this way:

"to cohere, hold together: τά πάντα συνέστηκεν ἐν αὐτῷ, Colossians 1:17"

Without that consistent, never relaxed for an instant, power, the entire universe, including our bodies, would "come unglued." Yes, everything would become vapor and just expand outward through space.

Therefore, to presume the Lord is as the Deists believe, in that He wound things up like a clock spring, only to occasionally return and "intervene" where He had lost control because of boredom or some other "deific malady" Deists presume about THEIR god...no. The Lord is always engaged and in total control to the extend that He never needs to intervene. Every event, every happening, even crime, every blessing, every healing, every death from disease...it ALL is within the purview of His Sovereign oversight.

What are your thoughts?

MM

You do not address "free will" here. Do you not believe in free will?

Absolutely there is free will. How would there not be? I've encountered people who posit the idea that God's foreknowledge somehow creates a crisis with free will. They never do legitimize their assumption with rational discussion. All they do is ask the question.

So, God's total control can still leave room for each person to make their own choices. If that were not the case, then each one of us would have a legitimate claim against being responsible for our sin.

MM

As if you state the only choices possible.

1. God was not caught by surprise, but knew the correct course of action if man decides to disobey.
2. God wants man to choose obedience to his word. In order to choose rightly, there must be an alternative and consequences.