The biblicalness of Bible college

The disciples spent 3 years in training by the greatest teacher ever, Jesus the man who is God incarnate. The other pastors Philip, James, Titus, Timothy, were trained by the disciples directly for years.
I am pro seminary (not sure how that compares to bible college,) because we have men setting in the pastors office that are just not qualified; not qualified as pastors nor qualified to train up new pastors. I spoke to a pastor in Oklahoma recently, He did the wedding ceremony of a friend, He was certainly not qualified to be a pastor and cringe at the though of him training other pastors.

Beloved Spurgeon.

It is true that Spurgeon was a Baptist yet at the end it was the Baptist church who turned on him and severely censured him in the Downgrade controversy. Many of his most dear friends forsook him. The Downgrade [by his wife's testimony] sent Spurgeon to an early grave.

His work "The Final Manifesto" was quite a breathtaking prophetic word. When he published it there were 2-3 chapels in just about every street in Britain and they we filled but Spurgeon warned that if the dumbing down of the fundamental truths of the gospel continued, Docttrines concerning the cross, salvation. sanctification, regeneration etc these chapels would be emptied out and be replaced by venues of entertainment. "Let me be torn by dogs for a hundred years but I shall be proved right."

Yes Spurgeon was Calvinist but he was not a narrow minded Calvinist, he may have tut tutted the antics of General Booth and the salvation Army but he loved their souls and their work. Booth came to Spurgeon to beg the use of The Metropolitan Tabernacle to accomodate the great numbers expected to attend a Salvationist rally. Spurgeon was bound by oath that The Met could only be used to further the doctrines of grace. Sadly he had to refuse the General. But he sat down at his bureau and proceeded to write a cheque for a large sum of money. Enough to hire the Royal Albert hall with money left over for the work of the army.

On the matter of extraordinary gifts, Spurgeon endorsed [with some caveats] George Fox the 17th century founder of the Quakers, a man known for prophecies which came to pass and praying for all manner of illness resulting in miraculous healing.

Spurgeon would not endorse anybody lightly, without having full kowledge of the one he was endorsing.

Spugeon is known as "The Last Puritan" and so he is. A lovely christian.

Again, by the 1970s Spurgeon was out of print but towards the end of that decade there came a massive worldwide revival of interest in Spurgeon which caused Banner of Truth to begin rprinting his works.

The revival of interest came from the Charismatic movement.

If any of you want to read his works, a LOT of them are free on Amazon!!!

https://www.amazon.com/stores/Charl...ramIntegrated=true&shoppingPortalEnabled=true


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Is that like an angel fish?

I think my example of his attitude toward the Salvation Army and General Booth whose supernatural vision of the lost was well known by then explains what I mean. When you compare that to the attitude of present day Sovereign Grace believers toward Pentecostalists.

people as preach grace oughta be a little gracious ...

Yet George Whitefieod and Jonathon Edwards were both Calvinists instrumental in starting the Great Awakening, in the US & England. Both were called as evangelists. When Edwards preached his sermon, “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God,” he read the text in a boring monotone, never looking at the congregation. But the Holy Spirit fell, and completely took over, and the awakening was started. A good sermon to read.

https://daily.jstor.org/sinners-in-the-hands-of-an-angry-god-annotated/

No smooth delivery, no fancy lights, orchestra, choir, or signs & wonders. Just powerful preaching from the Word of God.

I do agree that Calvinism should never be the reason to stop evangelism. With Hudson Taylor story is told of how when he went to his mission board to get funding to go to China as a missionary, he was told, “Not one penny for Chinese missions. If God wants to save the heathen, he can do it quite well on his own!” Hudson Taylor went anyway.

“Taylor spent 54 years in China. The society that he began was responsible for bringing over 800 missionaries to the country who started 125 schools[1] and directly resulted in 20,000 Christian conversions, as well as the establishment of more than 300 stations of work with more than 499 local helpers in all 18 provinces.[2]

No other missionary in the nineteen centuries since the Apostle Paul has had a wider vision and has carried out a more systematized plan of evangelizing a broad geographical area than Hudson Taylor.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hud...lor (Chinese: 戴德生,CIM, now OMF International).

He had Methodist beliefs, so it was not just Calvinists stopping evangelism. But rather a bad theology of that time. Any Reformed person who doesn’t understand the Great Commission suffers from a serious lack of understanding of our purpose as Christians. Of course, the same can be said of an Arminian missionary board that would not give money to reach the lost in China! Esp considering that the Chinese Inland Hudson Taylor founded is said to be behind the majority of Christian conversions, and the underground church which is massive in China today. Imagine if that Arminian board had stopped Hudson Taylor from going to China. How much less influence would the gospel have? And how many more lost would have ended up in hell?

This is not just unethical, but an outright lie! You should be ashamed of yourself. Spurgeon was a Particular Baptist, and they were Calvinists. He lived long before this blight of Pentecostalism starred in 1905.

“Spurgeon, in full Charles Haddon Spurgeon, (born June 19, 1834, Kelvedon, Essex, Eng. —died Jan. 31, 1892, Menton, France), English fundamentalist Baptist minister and celebrated preacher whose sermons, which were often spiced with humour, were widely translated and extremely successful in sales.”

https://www.britannica.com/biography/C-H-Spurgeon

“Charles Haddon Spurgeon (19 June 1834 – 31 January 1892) was an English Particular Baptist preacher.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cha...9 June,an English Particular Baptist preacher.

But feel free to post some actual sources to support your nonsense. You can’t and won’t! There aren’t any, and you are to lazy to look them up. Save your time. I studied Christian history, I can give you better sources.

Consider carefully also, if you have benefitted from Sturgeon’s writings, his daily devotions, perhaps you need to look at what he did believe. Maybe it is you that has been off course. I hope Spurgeon will help you find some of the truth of God!

I am a Baptist, but I belong to a denomination that has ordained women since 1956. I have thoroughly studied the topic, esp exegeting the Greek, and I am resolved in my Baptist “authority of the believer” that women can be ordained. I’ll take my assistant woman preacher with orthodox beliefs any day over our man head preacher who is an open theist.

We’ve also debated this topic to death in this forum. Do a search if you want the Scriptures that support women in ministry. Not writing it out again, but it was an incredibly interesting debate. And not too much name calling, lots of scripture on both sides!!

As far as calling someone an “ignoramus”
It was not meant as an insult. It was meant as a truth. That person has no knowledge of a Christian history or Spurgeon. I can’t think of a better word for a person who is ignorant of the truth and posts something, without any source, that is wrong.

Now if you have a better word to call someone who is uneducated, purposefully posting lies, let me know, and I will use it. I did think and pray, rejected some much harsher words.

As far as bragging, it was the Lord who called me- first to salvation, then to seminary, where I did better than the men. Except in preaching, in the beginning. Every man had been given ample opportunities to preach, I had not. My first sermons were terrible! The men delivered excellent sermons. I’m glad to say God helped me with that one, too! I would not have made it through a single course in seminary had I not know it was God’s will for my life. He pushed me, led me, gifted me, inspire me, and helped teach me through my godly professors. Did you not understand that is what I said?

I just quit my PhD when I found out I am going blind from Macular Degeneration. I thought I was done. But today I received a letter from the new registrar of my theological school, asking me if I am coming back. Did God open that door? I know God has a special job in store for me, to do with disability theology. My heart is to lead the very hurting and broken disabled community to Christ. It has been a burden God has given me for decades! And I have found a way - through the internet!

Of course, God can use anything to reach the lost, but I believe God is leading me to find ways (with his guidance!) to connect strong, mature Christians with anything from heart disease, to cancer, to autoimmune diseases like I have, to life long deformities, or those who have lost limbs, sight, hearing, eyes, to any other disability; and use their experiences of how God helped them, to comfort, encourage and win people to Jesus.

Please pray that my weak flesh will not kick in. I’ve been in terrible pain for a month as my meds failed. I got my first of 2 infusions today, and I feel like I can do it! If it is from God, and not just a clerical error. I would never dream of working on this fascinating topic without a clear mandate from God, it seems like such a small area, so irrelevant, except to the people who find God through it, and the joy it brings other disabled people, finding that despite being disabled, they can make a difference in the Kingdom of God!

I covet everyone’s prayers. I will put it as a prayer request I. The prayer forum . And if no is the answer, I can take it! I just haven’t felt comfort since I said no. Thanks for this reminder.

I will remember you in my prayers!


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are you so silly a wasp?

To be pentecostal is to be filled with the Holy Spirit. I said Spurgeon was pentecostal. He mourned greatly the lack of what used to be known as experimental christianity which is to say christianity that could be experienced and tangible. He knew what many Pentecostals know, a belly from which flow rivers of living water.

After all that stuff about Particularity and Calvinism you come out with a statement like that last one about more souls ending up in hell for lack of the gospel ... better go back to Southern Baptist college.

The Inland China Missionary board did bar Gldys Ayleward from going to China but she got there anyway and her story is thrilling. I would point out also that what is happening in China today through the house church movement had ZERO to do the Inland China Mission. It was and is a work of pure Sovereign grace.

God cleared out western christianity from China.

"That person, that ignoramus" has studied Spurgeon for 47 years and was converted to the doctrines of Sovereign Grace if not Calvinism, I cannot accept all aspects of Calvin "

I also know Bunyan, Whitefield, Pink and all the other Free Grace ministries including Jonothan Edwards and where he went wrong.

No one accepts all the aspects of Calvinism, not even Calvin himself. Augustine is a better source for understanding.

Yes I came to believe the docrines of Free Sovereign Grace but I was saved through the ministry of a Pentecostalist Evangelist and his wife. I have not felt it right as so many do [many on forums like this one] turn my back and even become fierce opponents of the movement through which God saved them.

If I denied my pentecostal experience I would be a liar.

Hilarious! No one can be saved without the Holy Spirit. No one can be moved without the Holy Spirit. No one can follow Jesus without the Holy Spirit. He is Jesus presence on earth. Someone without the Holy Spirit is not a Christian! Of course Spurgeon had the Holy Sprit, was led by the Spirit and filled with the Spirit.

Why do charismatics & Pentecostals think they are the only ones with the Holy Spirit? I’ll tell you, Edify! It’s a spirit of pride! How do I know that? I went to Pentecostal churches for 15 years after I was saved. I heard 100s of times the preacher talking about “those old dead churches.” And how much better our church was, because we were charismatic, operating in the gifts, moving with the spirit. I never darkened the door of a “dead” church, never knew what was happening in those churches, I just believed my trusty pastor, with maybe a year of Bible school, not 3-6 years Seminary and dedicated training to serve God and his people. It must be so! Spurgeon must be a Pentecostal if he had the Holy Spirit! Right?!

Or, maybe those dead churches judged the infilling of the Holy Spirit in a different way? Maybe they watched a man hungry for God? And because of his extensive training, and tools like the original languages, an understanding of hermeneutics and Bible interpretation, led to a deep, rich and varied exposure to the many facets of God. The many aspects of God, of theology, anthropology, and even pneumatology! I did two 30 Page papers on the Holy Spirit for my PhD part of one term. I read 50 books and another 50
Papers on the topic. I learned more about what God said about the Holy Spirit in the Bible and the early church than in 15 years in charismatic churches with poorly trained pastors, or untrained pastors, who preached on Acts 2, again, and put down other churches, calling them dead, saying they didn’t have the Holy Spirit because people weren’t rolling in the aisles with holy laughter! Oops! That was too extreme. A more man made, dead phenomena as the Toronto Happening has never happened! Barking dogs as a sign of the Holy Spirit? Pure Satanic chaos is more like it.

But please! That is the other extreme of the charismatic movement, and I should not have used it as an example. But it is what happens when you get people totally untrained in the Bible, and unleash them. You end up with a circus side show. And I say that, because I think there are dead Baptist churches, but I won’t judge. Perhaps the 85 year old woman who can barely get to church on Sunday, doesn’t dance, raise her hands or speak in tongues, but spends hours praying for the lost, for her pastor, for the young people she sees living without Christ, who reads her Bible faithfully from cover to cover, is more spirit filled than any dancing, barking so-called spirit filled person who is there for the quick high, the appearance of being where it is “happening,” or hundreds of other carnal, external actions making him look in touch with God on the outside, rather than holy & righteous on the inside, like that little old lady in that non Charismatic church.

When I attended Pentecostal/non-denominational churches I began to see two things clearly:

1. the pastors had little to no knowledge of the Bible. The topic was always the gifts of the Holy Spirit, one man I particularly remembered. It was my first year as a Christian, and he was quite a performer. He’d been called to be the pastor, but resigned quickly to go back to a business where he made lots of money. He had no training, and did no sermon prep. He spent 1/2 hour of a sermon discussing why it didn’t matter if he wore brown socks with black pants or black socks with black pants. People shouldn’t judge him by the colour of his socks. He didn’t even pull in verses about how & why we do or do not judge people. Not that the Bible ever talked about socks. It was a stalling static, cause he didn’t have anything to say. He was unprepared! I was a new Christian, but the Holy Spirit had already given me the gift of discernment. We moved shortly after that, to an new area, started a church a different Pentecostal denomination, where the pastors did have Bible college training. He was so well prepared. He systematically would go though all the verses pertaining to a topic, till we had covered them all. For weeks! He had a knack for looking at the Bible, and pulling different threads together, to make sense, but it was never out of context. He was an excellent pastor, cared for the flock. My husband was moved up north, and that pastor died only months after we left, and he was loved and missed by many! My first good pastor.

My next Pentecostal pastor was in the PAOC, sister denomination to AoG. He was different, he would go through 50 scriptures, never explain them, he tried to tie them together but it never worked. He was prepared, and he had to be spirit filled, right? In a Pentecostal church? I always felt like he was trying to say something but just couldn’t quite express it. He did know the Bible well, and his theology wasn’t bad. He had solid answers for theological questions I had. And the church grew under him. But we also had some really strong charismatic people. Very involved in Full Gospel Businessmen, one converted Hindu with an incredible gift of evangelism. He lead thousands to the Lord, along with his Filipina wife. A lot of new people joined because of their ministry of evangelism. But sadly, not one of those people matured in Christ.

The pastor left for a bigger church, I heard from friends he left the ministry, then left his wife. I figured it had been a battle for him. He was shy. I just heard a week ago why he left the ministry. He came out as gay. Been gay for 35 years. I guess not so spirit filled.

Oh, and the man with the amazing testimony and gift of evangelism? Cheated on his wife, lost everything; cheated on his second wife, lost everything! His FB profile interests say, “looking for women!” No
Maturity there. His Filipina wife? The one who told me I didn’t have faith to be healed of RA. She got breast cancer, refused medications cause she claimed “healing!” Got a diploma mill PhD to start her own Word Faith church from Kenneth Copeland. She died in a year when the cancer metastasized to her brain and drove her insane, and killed her, 20 years ago.

My first step out of
Pentecostal/charismatic churches, I found well trained pastors, & well run churches. The sermons fed me. They made me hunger to know God and his word. Not all the outer gifts of the spirit did that! I wanted to know the Bible like they did! And when God called me to seminary, I took slow steps to fulfill that call. I was in God’s will.

Charles Spurgeon is a perfect example of a spirit filled teacher. His writings cause you to mature, to grow into the image of Christ. It’s not about a prophecy here, a hand raised there, talking in tongues! I could go on and on about the wrecked lives I saw in Pentecostalism. Because there was no emphasis on transformation by the Spirit! Our spirit, led by the Holy Spirit. That is being Spirit led! Not outer surface gifts that anyone can mimic. Only God grows character. He grows it through suffering, and crying out to God! And when the Holy Spirit touched your soul, it changes you. It makes you more like Jesus, that is maturity. Or at least one step in the journey!

I left the Pentecostal Churches because they were shallow, and largely, (but not completely!) uneducated in the Bible, theology and the transformation of the church to do God’s work. I love to hear the Bible correctly exegeted. I’m in a Baptist church with a pastor who is an Open Theology person. He had a crisis of faith, this is how he solved his crisis. God is not in control, we just make our way and hope for the best. I stopped going to services when the churches closed for COVID. I could not force myself back to hear another shallow, empty theology. They come in all shapes & sizes.

Open Theology is why I lean to Reformed Theology. The sovereignty of God is primary. God is in control. Just that one terse, Theological statement can transform a person, we are not in control. Sure, we can directly disobey God, we are not automations. But why would we want to? God knows best! And as Romans 8:28 days, God works all things together for Goid to those who live God and are called according to his purpose. Even our mistakes & sin.

And if Pentecostals start reading a deep theologian and preacher like Spurgeon, claiming him as their own, (cause they have finally let go the emphasis on the shallow outer gifts & embraced the deep inner workings of the Holy Spirit in their hearts and lives), it’s all good! Maybe one day, the emotional and the intellectual will combine and the church will be whole!

Bible College is BIASED and based typically upon the Founder's Personal, or Denominational beliefs.
you can know the Bible in and out, but the moment you are in Bible College Class, if you want to Pass, you gotta Agree with the most ungodly baloney of personal beliefs known to mankind.

and let's face it, not a single Protestant Movement/Denomination has the Complete Truth.

so, if you do, [[DO NOT]] go to a System designed to Push their TRIPE onto you.

I truly believe that most Bible time pastors were mentored. Bible college is a good opportunity for the church leaders to mentor young candidates. If you really want to lead God's people you can invest the time and work. I'm afraid the other choice is you don't get to apply in these churches that just pick a pastor. It's a popularity contest. I go to one of their churches and it's whoever friends the pastor is picked by the pastor. There's no real mentoring either; the candidates set up chairs and take the offering. This church is like on the third generation of unschooled pastors and sees little success. They have churches with twenty people all the time in rented buildings, but brag about the number of churches often. My pastor admits he wants to quit. I studied full time and worked 40 hours a week for two years just to find out even in my original denomination you could just be voted. It seems shameful. "Lay hands (to anoint) on no man suddenly," is Bible. As for Angela's ministry, more power to you. I hope one day you pastor. We had plenty of girls in school who can outdo me. Haha.

if God has Ordained You and Called You to be Elected as a Preacher, the door, will open up somewhere.

i've been around, since my Grandfather not only taught in Bible Colleges, but taught Class in Church on off Church Service nights + was Presbyter of the Pentecostal Denomination he was in overseeing 5 States. a Jew, became a Christian, had a 6th Grade Education, ended up teaching Hebrew and the Tanakh to 1/3 of the United States Pentecostal Churches.

you get more from the truly Anointed of God versus the anointed of man!