The biblicalness of Bible college

2ndTimeIsTheCharm · Oct 13, 2023

What does this have to do with praying for someone who requests it???

🍧

Aaron56 · Oct 13, 2023

I am neither for or against Bible schools, per se. But, if one examines the scriptures it is clear that the elders are to instruct the younger. If believers were not esteemed for their education degrees but only for their character and wisdom in the Lord and they were only received as an elder because of their consistent testimony of following the Spirit, there would be fewer issues in the church.

The_Watchers_2017 · Oct 13, 2023

lol some old clippings of my Grandpa being a Pastor:

a Funeral in 1946:
Funeral rites will be conducted
Tuesday afternoon from the El-
wood Gospel Tabernacle at 2 0'-
clock. Rev Vincent McGlynn,
pastor will be in charge. Burial
will be made in the City cemetery.

Newspaper heading from 1947"
ELWOOD GOSPEL TABERNACLE Rev. Vincent McGlynn. Pastor South and 22nd Street Sunday School 9:30 a.m....

February 1, 1947
The Call-Leader from Elwood, Indiana • Page 6
Location:Elwood, Indiana
Issue Date:Saturday, February 1, 1947
Page:6

he was cutting his teeth before he became known as a Teacher of Hebrew:

Edify · Oct 13, 2023

c

The_Watchers_2017 said:

What organization was he in? Just curious.

The_Watchers_2017 · Oct 13, 2023

Edify said:

Originally, AoG [1930s], but he was one of the first to go completely Independent. eventually, enough Independent Pentecostal Churches, literally, became their own Organization, without ever foreseeing it.

***as Independent, he could then go to AoG, and the Others, and teach without having some Denominational bi-law he would have otherwise broke***

he did not care if they were Trinity or Oneness, he had the Truth, and they paid for him to teach it.

Edify · Oct 13, 2023

Angela53510 said:

Hilarious! No one can be saved without the Holy Spirit. No one can be moved without the Holy Spirit. No one can follow Jesus without the Holy Spirit. He is Jesus presence on earth. Someone without the Holy Spirit is not a Christian! Of course Spurgeon had the Holy Sprit, was led by the Spirit and filled with the Spirit.

Why do charismatics & Pentecostals think they are the only ones with the Holy Spirit? I’ll tell you, Edify! It’s a spirit of pride! How do I know that? I went to Pentecostal churches for 15 years after I was saved. I heard 100s of times the preacher talking about “those old dead churches.” And how much better our church was, because we were charismatic, operating in the gifts, moving with the spirit. I never darkened the door of a “dead” church, never knew what was happening in those churches, I just believed my trusty pastor, with maybe a year of Bible school, not 3-6 years Seminary and dedicated training to serve God and his people. It must be so! Spurgeon must be a Pentecostal if he had the Holy Spirit! Right?!

Or, maybe those dead churches judged the infilling of the Holy Spirit in a different way? Maybe they watched a man hungry for God? And because of his extensive training, and tools like the original languages, an understanding of hermeneutics and Bible interpretation, led to a deep, rich and varied exposure to the many facets of God. The many aspects of God, of theology, anthropology, and even pneumatology! I did two 30 Page papers on the Holy Spirit for my PhD part of one term. I read 50 books and another 50
Papers on the topic. I learned more about what God said about the Holy Spirit in the Bible and the early church than in 15 years in charismatic churches with poorly trained pastors, or untrained pastors, who preached on Acts 2, again, and put down other churches, calling them dead, saying they didn’t have the Holy Spirit because people weren’t rolling in the aisles with holy laughter! Oops! That was too extreme. A more man made, dead phenomena as the Toronto Happening has never happened! Barking dogs as a sign of the Holy Spirit? Pure Satanic chaos is more like it.

But please! That is the other extreme of the charismatic movement, and I should not have used it as an example. But it is what happens when you get people totally untrained in the Bible, and unleash them. You end up with a circus side show. And I say that, because I think there are dead Baptist churches, but I won’t judge. Perhaps the 85 year old woman who can barely get to church on Sunday, doesn’t dance, raise her hands or speak in tongues, but spends hours praying for the lost, for her pastor, for the young people she sees living without Christ, who reads her Bible faithfully from cover to cover, is more spirit filled than any dancing, barking so-called spirit filled person who is there for the quick high, the appearance of being where it is “happening,” or hundreds of other carnal, external actions making him look in touch with God on the outside, rather than holy & righteous on the inside, like that little old lady in that non Charismatic church.

When I attended Pentecostal/non-denominational churches I began to see two things clearly:

1. the pastors had little to no knowledge of the Bible. The topic was always the gifts of the Holy Spirit, one man I particularly remembered. It was my first year as a Christian, and he was quite a performer. He’d been called to be the pastor, but resigned quickly to go back to a business where he made lots of money. He had no training, and did no sermon prep. He spent 1/2 hour of a sermon discussing why it didn’t matter if he wore brown socks with black pants or black socks with black pants. People shouldn’t judge him by the colour of his socks. He didn’t even pull in verses about how & why we do or do not judge people. Not that the Bible ever talked about socks. It was a stalling static, cause he didn’t have anything to say. He was unprepared! I was a new Christian, but the Holy Spirit had already given me the gift of discernment. We moved shortly after that, to an new area, started a church a different Pentecostal denomination, where the pastors did have Bible college training. He was so well prepared. He systematically would go though all the verses pertaining to a topic, till we had covered them all. For weeks! He had a knack for looking at the Bible, and pulling different threads together, to make sense, but it was never out of context. He was an excellent pastor, cared for the flock. My husband was moved up north, and that pastor died only months after we left, and he was loved and missed by many! My first good pastor.

My next Pentecostal pastor was in the PAOC, sister denomination to AoG. He was different, he would go through 50 scriptures, never explain them, he tried to tie them together but it never worked. He was prepared, and he had to be spirit filled, right? In a Pentecostal church? I always felt like he was trying to say something but just couldn’t quite express it. He did know the Bible well, and his theology wasn’t bad. He had solid answers for theological questions I had. And the church grew under him. But we also had some really strong charismatic people. Very involved in Full Gospel Businessmen, one converted Hindu with an incredible gift of evangelism. He lead thousands to the Lord, along with his Filipina wife. A lot of new people joined because of their ministry of evangelism. But sadly, not one of those people matured in Christ.

The pastor left for a bigger church, I heard from friends he left the ministry, then left his wife. I figured it had been a battle for him. He was shy. I just heard a week ago why he left the ministry. He came out as gay. Been gay for 35 years. I guess not so spirit filled.

Oh, and the man with the amazing testimony and gift of evangelism? Cheated on his wife, lost everything; cheated on his second wife, lost everything! His FB profile interests say, “looking for women!” No
Maturity there. His Filipina wife? The one who told me I didn’t have faith to be healed of RA. She got breast cancer, refused medications cause she claimed “healing!” Got a diploma mill PhD to start her own Word Faith church from Kenneth Copeland. She died in a year when the cancer metastasized to her brain and drove her insane, and killed her, 20 years ago.

My first step out of
Pentecostal/charismatic churches, I found well trained pastors, & well run churches. The sermons fed me. They made me hunger to know God and his word. Not all the outer gifts of the spirit did that! I wanted to know the Bible like they did! And when God called me to seminary, I took slow steps to fulfill that call. I was in God’s will.

Charles Spurgeon is a perfect example of a spirit filled teacher. His writings cause you to mature, to grow into the image of Christ. It’s not about a prophecy here, a hand raised there, talking in tongues! I could go on and on about the wrecked lives I saw in Pentecostalism. Because there was no emphasis on transformation by the Spirit! Our spirit, led by the Holy Spirit. That is being Spirit led! Not outer surface gifts that anyone can mimic. Only God grows character. He grows it through suffering, and crying out to God! And when the Holy Spirit touched your soul, it changes you. It makes you more like Jesus, that is maturity. Or at least one step in the journey!

I left the Pentecostal Churches because they were shallow, and largely, (but not completely!) uneducated in the Bible, theology and the transformation of the church to do God’s work. I love to hear the Bible correctly exegeted. I’m in a Baptist church with a pastor who is an Open Theology person. He had a crisis of faith, this is how he solved his crisis. God is not in control, we just make our way and hope for the best. I stopped going to services when the churches closed for COVID. I could not force myself back to hear another shallow, empty theology. They come in all shapes & sizes.

Open Theology is why I lean to Reformed Theology. The sovereignty of God is primary. God is in control. Just that one terse, Theological statement can transform a person, we are not in control. Sure, we can directly disobey God, we are not automations. But why would we want to? God knows best! And as Romans 8:28 days, God works all things together for Goid to those who live God and are called according to his purpose. Even our mistakes & sin.

And if Pentecostals start reading a deep theologian and preacher like Spurgeon, claiming him as their own, (cause they have finally let go the emphasis on the shallow outer gifts & embraced the deep inner workings of the Holy Spirit in their hearts and lives), it’s all good! Maybe one day, the emotional and the intellectual will combine and the church will be whole!

The_Watchers_2017 said:

Good for him to go independent! I was in the Pentecostal Church of God for many years, & finally realized the "cost" of being in the organization, both monetarily & spiritually, just wasn't worth it. It didn't matter what you knew or the value of your ministry, but WHO you knew. That's the way it is in most organizations.

Edify · Oct 13, 2023

I dunno how I posted Angela's part on the last post, but it's a mistake.

Edify · Oct 13, 2023

Angela53510 said:

You may not realize the fact that you are looking down on other denominations & insulting God's people when you state things like this. As a Pentecostal myself, I have went through many of the things you have. I had to leave my organization because of such things & become an independent. I HAD to learn to forgive those that hurt me, as well as having longsuffering for those that believe false doctrines. We never know if or when we will have an opportunity to minister to such people.
1Cor 9:19For though I am free from all people, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may gain more. 20To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might gain Jews; to those who are under the Law, I became as one under the Law, though not being under the Law myself, so that I might gain those who are under the Law; 21to those who are without the Law, I became as one without the Law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might gain those who are without the Law. 22To the weak I became weak, that I might gain the weak; I have become all things to all people, so that I may by all means save some. 23I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.
I think you ought to consider these last verses before you insult & mock christians of other denominations.

Evmur · Oct 14, 2023

2ndTimeIsTheCharm said:

Nothing ... God answers prayer, God does miracles. Spurgeon would have endorsed those statements.

... you may have thought something I saisd was directed at you, it wasn't.

Evmur · Oct 14, 2023

Angela53510 said:

Hilarious! No one can be saved without the Holy Spirit. No one can be moved without the Holy Spirit. No one can follow Jesus without the Holy Spirit. He is Jesus presence on earth. Someone without the Holy Spirit is not a Christian! Of course Spurgeon had the Holy Sprit, was led by the Spirit and filled with the Spirit.

Why do charismatics & Pentecostals think they are the only ones with the Holy Spirit? I’ll tell you, Edify! It’s a spirit of pride! How do I know that? I went to Pentecostal churches for 15 years after I was saved. I heard 100s of times the preacher talking about “those old dead churches.” And how much better our church was, because we were charismatic, operating in the gifts, moving with the spirit. I never darkened the door of a “dead” church, never knew what was happening in those churches, I just believed my trusty pastor, with maybe a year of Bible school, not 3-6 years Seminary and dedicated training to serve God and his people. It must be so! Spurgeon must be a Pentecostal if he had the Holy Spirit! Right?!

Or, maybe those dead churches judged the infilling of the Holy Spirit in a different way? Maybe they watched a man hungry for God? And because of his extensive training, and tools like the original languages, an understanding of hermeneutics and Bible interpretation, led to a deep, rich and varied exposure to the many facets of God. The many aspects of God, of theology, anthropology, and even pneumatology! I did two 30 Page papers on the Holy Spirit for my PhD part of one term. I read 50 books and another 50
Papers on the topic. I learned more about what God said about the Holy Spirit in the Bible and the early church than in 15 years in charismatic churches with poorly trained pastors, or untrained pastors, who preached on Acts 2, again, and put down other churches, calling them dead, saying they didn’t have the Holy Spirit because people weren’t rolling in the aisles with holy laughter! Oops! That was too extreme. A more man made, dead phenomena as the Toronto Happening has never happened! Barking dogs as a sign of the Holy Spirit? Pure Satanic chaos is more like it.

But please! That is the other extreme of the charismatic movement, and I should not have used it as an example. But it is what happens when you get people totally untrained in the Bible, and unleash them. You end up with a circus side show. And I say that, because I think there are dead Baptist churches, but I won’t judge. Perhaps the 85 year old woman who can barely get to church on Sunday, doesn’t dance, raise her hands or speak in tongues, but spends hours praying for the lost, for her pastor, for the young people she sees living without Christ, who reads her Bible faithfully from cover to cover, is more spirit filled than any dancing, barking so-called spirit filled person who is there for the quick high, the appearance of being where it is “happening,” or hundreds of other carnal, external actions making him look in touch with God on the outside, rather than holy & righteous on the inside, like that little old lady in that non Charismatic church.

When I attended Pentecostal/non-denominational churches I began to see two things clearly:

1. the pastors had little to no knowledge of the Bible. The topic was always the gifts of the Holy Spirit, one man I particularly remembered. It was my first year as a Christian, and he was quite a performer. He’d been called to be the pastor, but resigned quickly to go back to a business where he made lots of money. He had no training, and did no sermon prep. He spent 1/2 hour of a sermon discussing why it didn’t matter if he wore brown socks with black pants or black socks with black pants. People shouldn’t judge him by the colour of his socks. He didn’t even pull in verses about how & why we do or do not judge people. Not that the Bible ever talked about socks. It was a stalling static, cause he didn’t have anything to say. He was unprepared! I was a new Christian, but the Holy Spirit had already given me the gift of discernment. We moved shortly after that, to an new area, started a church a different Pentecostal denomination, where the pastors did have Bible college training. He was so well prepared. He systematically would go though all the verses pertaining to a topic, till we had covered them all. For weeks! He had a knack for looking at the Bible, and pulling different threads together, to make sense, but it was never out of context. He was an excellent pastor, cared for the flock. My husband was moved up north, and that pastor died only months after we left, and he was loved and missed by many! My first good pastor.

My next Pentecostal pastor was in the PAOC, sister denomination to AoG. He was different, he would go through 50 scriptures, never explain them, he tried to tie them together but it never worked. He was prepared, and he had to be spirit filled, right? In a Pentecostal church? I always felt like he was trying to say something but just couldn’t quite express it. He did know the Bible well, and his theology wasn’t bad. He had solid answers for theological questions I had. And the church grew under him. But we also had some really strong charismatic people. Very involved in Full Gospel Businessmen, one converted Hindu with an incredible gift of evangelism. He lead thousands to the Lord, along with his Filipina wife. A lot of new people joined because of their ministry of evangelism. But sadly, not one of those people matured in Christ.

The pastor left for a bigger church, I heard from friends he left the ministry, then left his wife. I figured it had been a battle for him. He was shy. I just heard a week ago why he left the ministry. He came out as gay. Been gay for 35 years. I guess not so spirit filled.

Oh, and the man with the amazing testimony and gift of evangelism? Cheated on his wife, lost everything; cheated on his second wife, lost everything! His FB profile interests say, “looking for women!” No
Maturity there. His Filipina wife? The one who told me I didn’t have faith to be healed of RA. She got breast cancer, refused medications cause she claimed “healing!” Got a diploma mill PhD to start her own Word Faith church from Kenneth Copeland. She died in a year when the cancer metastasized to her brain and drove her insane, and killed her, 20 years ago.

My first step out of
Pentecostal/charismatic churches, I found well trained pastors, & well run churches. The sermons fed me. They made me hunger to know God and his word. Not all the outer gifts of the spirit did that! I wanted to know the Bible like they did! And when God called me to seminary, I took slow steps to fulfill that call. I was in God’s will.

Charles Spurgeon is a perfect example of a spirit filled teacher. His writings cause you to mature, to grow into the image of Christ. It’s not about a prophecy here, a hand raised there, talking in tongues! I could go on and on about the wrecked lives I saw in Pentecostalism. Because there was no emphasis on transformation by the Spirit! Our spirit, led by the Holy Spirit. That is being Spirit led! Not outer surface gifts that anyone can mimic. Only God grows character. He grows it through suffering, and crying out to God! And when the Holy Spirit touched your soul, it changes you. It makes you more like Jesus, that is maturity. Or at least one step in the journey!

I left the Pentecostal Churches because they were shallow, and largely, (but not completely!) uneducated in the Bible, theology and the transformation of the church to do God’s work. I love to hear the Bible correctly exegeted. I’m in a Baptist church with a pastor who is an Open Theology person. He had a crisis of faith, this is how he solved his crisis. God is not in control, we just make our way and hope for the best. I stopped going to services when the churches closed for COVID. I could not force myself back to hear another shallow, empty theology. They come in all shapes & sizes.

Open Theology is why I lean to Reformed Theology. The sovereignty of God is primary. God is in control. Just that one terse, Theological statement can transform a person, we are not in control. Sure, we can directly disobey God, we are not automations. But why would we want to? God knows best! And as Romans 8:28 days, God works all things together for Goid to those who live God and are called according to his purpose. Even our mistakes & sin.

And if Pentecostals start reading a deep theologian and preacher like Spurgeon, claiming him as their own, (cause they have finally let go the emphasis on the shallow outer gifts & embraced the deep inner workings of the Holy Spirit in their hearts and lives), it’s all good! Maybe one day, the emotional and the intellectual will combine and the church will be whole!

were you saved through a Pentecostal minstry?

Evmur · Oct 14, 2023

Edify said:

I am never ashamed to be bunched in with the ignorant masses.

I learned from an early stage in my walk those very doctrines Angela is promoting.

This is what she does not understand.

You don't forsake God's chosen ones because you have learned something precious. He has CAUSED you to be among them and learn these things among them in order for you to share them with them.

THEY are the ones who need those doctrines, that theology. Instead she huffs and puffs at their ignorance. God has chosen the foolish ignorant people of this world.

The present day Sovereign Grace churches [and forums] are choc a bloc with folks who were saved by Pentecostal ministries, who have gained a little knowledge.
It's bad enough that they forsake the ignorant [in the sense of not knowing] but they turn around completely and become fierce and bitter enemies. ... of the very ministries though which they were saved.

Such a thing Jesus never did and nobody knew more than He nobody had a better theology. Nor did Paul.

And people like Spurgeon, Whitefield, Bunyan [along with] Wesley and General Booth belong to the WHOLE church.

JonathanBentley · Oct 14, 2023

Bible college is a good opportunity to be grounded in Christ. I personally think every Christian young person should consider it. There is online berean Bible college if you can't travel. I used to travel 9 hours from home. It can be tough. Also you could study at home with the right material under your pastor. Try to study like some do here. I once thought most people on CC went to college but I guess they just read up on it. So much talk on Spurgeon and Calvin, I used to just buy the biographies from the Bible book store for like $4. Heroes of the faith was a pretty good series. You could get books on Galatians and Ephesians and the books of the bible. It's still better to have guidance from trained leaders.

posthuman · Oct 14, 2023

CS1 said:

long before Catholicism existed, and outside the realm of Catholicism, i might add

Edify · Oct 14, 2023

posthuman said:

Edify · Oct 14, 2023

CS1 said:

posthuman said:

And from them we have the allegorical method of biblical exegesis that was taught for 5 centuries.

posthuman · Oct 14, 2023

CS1 said:

in ancient Israel there were also schools of the prophets -

1 Samuel 10:5, 1 Samuel 19:18-24, 2 Kings 2:3, 2 Kings 2:15, 2 Kings 4:38

i imagine they were organized centers studying scripture and theology, if nothing else.

Angela53510 · Oct 15, 2023

Evmur said:

I was saved by God. He used many people, including Pentecostals, Baptists, Evangelical Free to witness to me over a period of a few years. One man in particular, had an amazing ministry of evangelism, which started a revival with people from all denominations. No meetings, just preaching the gospel, one on one,

It was my non-church-going, non-charismatic, future husband who gave me the missing piece of the puzzle, that I had to repent of my sins, which made me understand the gospel.

It was God who actually saved this wild, hard drinking, agnostic by the power of the Holy Spirit. We attended a Presbyterian Church till we moved for work. After that, a series of Pentecostal and non- denominational churches for 15 years, as we continued to move for work. After an incident in a Pentecostal Church we left, went to an Evangelical Free church, where I finally heard deep, exegetical preaching; found close friends & community, and support for my illness after all the bad doctrine in the Word Faith movement c including judgment & condemnation, which had crept into Pentecostal & charismatic churches, around then. (Congregation, not froM the pulpits!)

We moved again, to another province, finally settling into a Baptist church. that is where my hunger to know God better, study his Word, and develop tools to help people. Seminary fulfilled those goals, and do much more.

I am blessed to have been exposed to many branches of Christianity, including Eastern Orthodox Grandparents, Catholic cousins & friends, and Lutheran & Anglican aunts. I am a Reformed Baptist, now!

Angela53510 · Oct 15, 2023

Edify said:

In what way am i putting down any church or denomination by sharing my testimony of those churches? In what way am I incurring God’s wrath, by discussing doctrine? I have literally heard Charismatic pastors & people put down non charismatics thousands of times and say they do not have the Holy Spirit because they are cecessionists.

I didn’t know any better when I first attended charismatic churches, but could not stay in a church with wrong doctrines regarding soteriology. It took a long time to realize how these people do not understand the very basis of salvation, which is tragic and divisive.

notmyown · Oct 15, 2023

Angela53510 said:

AMEN!

notmyown · Oct 15, 2023

posthuman said:

post, do you remember a sweet young man who used to be a member here? his name was Sam, but his user name was something like, schoolofyoungprophets?

thank you for such a happy memory

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