Mid Acts

I agree that the teachings of Paul are just as good as Jesus speaking them Himself. Jesus sent Paul to preach the gospel and convert as many to Christ as possible.

If you believe in mid Acts, could you please point me to where Paul first proclaimed his gospel?

If I understand you correctly, I agree.

They haven't answered yet. Is it a hard question?

I would be happy to give you the biblical perspective that I know...it will be tomorrow

op: Mid Acts?

Yes, with God's "Revelation Of The Mystery!":




Please Be Very Richly Encouraged And Edified In Christ, and His Word!

Long list.
Looking at the first one, your list makes it sound like there is one apostle.
If we look at those two verses you referenced, they point out that Paul is an apostle to a particular group of people. I understand this as they are his primary mission but not only to them. As we see in his actions, he usually starts with the Jews when he gets into town. He doesn't just go to the Gentiles.
I see the same for the 12. Jews are their primary mission but they are not only to the Jews. The first Gentile converts were done by Peter, not Paul.

Paul says the one body is built on the foundation of the apostles, not him only.
20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone,

In the next chapter, Paul says the mystery was revealed to the apostles by the Spirit, not to him only. He says when you read this you can understand my insight. When they read his letter they can understand his insight but he was not the only one to receive the revelation by the Spirit.
4 When you read this, you can perceive my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit.

Any problem for Bible study?

So, the major disagreement [ about 13 apostles ] today, In
The Dispensation Of Grace, is whether there is:

1) Today, Only One apostle for the Body Of Christ (Romans - Philemon), or:

2) Whether there are 13 apostles [ combining/homogenizing ↑ with

3) Cancelling [ Spirit-Filled ] Matthias as # 12, because of the presupposition
that "the 11 were in error, not waiting for 'Paul to be saved'" because of ↑ of
"God Actually chose Paul as #12," because of the other presupposition that
"God Actually Totally Cancelled Out Israel, replacing them with the
Body Of Christ?

To me 2 and 3 are totally Confusing [ not 'Rightly Divided' ], so I choose 1.

And you go with 2, because?:
Before answering this, I just needed to clarify that this did not change,
because of my answer above, ok?

Take Care...

Not at all. I was just making the comment because I can't address that many in a single reply. That's why I picked one.


This is an interesting point. I personally believe it is like the 12 tribes of Israel. The 12 original tribes are not always listed as the 12 tribes.
If Paul is the ONE apostle for the body, in heaven why doesn't the wall have one foundation? Where does he fit in the 12 foundations?
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. [/quote]

Thanks for pointing this out - I will have to look further, so I don't say the
wrong conclusion (does happen, so now I s-l-o-w-l-y 'take my time').

I do know that the 'religion I grew up in' tried to foist upon me that "Peter
was the first pope in Rome" but, when I checked the long list of names
in Romans 16 = not found. Thus, one of several reasons I have abandoned
all 'religions' with this motto: Just stay with The Scriptures! Amen?

Now, on to:
Precious friend, yes, agree, God Sent Peter (Acts 10) to the first Gentile converts,
and, we should also notice, probably For God's Good Reason, 'the timing' was
after Paul Was Saved/Chosen/Called In Acts 9, Correct?
+
I believe we are now going to have a major problem with "13 apostles
going to all the world with 'the one gospel'", because of Paul penning
This Important / Inspired Passage about what Paul calls "my Gospel"
(Romans 2:16, 16:25, and 2 Timothy 2:8)

Would one not think the one gospel "the Exact Same" as Peter's would be
our gospel? So, All Of God's Words Were Written 'The Way They Were' for His
Reasons / Thoughts ( "Way Higher" Than mine Isaiah 55:8-9 ), and not for
me to change them to 'what I think / reason', Correct?:

[ Q: Why would Christ send Paul (By Revelation) to communicate that if
[ The Truth of 'Which' Gospel? The one to Peter, or the other one to Paul? ]:

[ Why would God Have To Delineate between two ( for them to 'see' ) if
Wait! Is this not disobedience, or does this then mean that the "twelve used
their [ 'binding/loosing' ] keys of the kingdom ( Matthew 16:19, 18:18 ), to
"loose themselves from their instructions * to go to 'All the world'" and
only continue 'with their own brethren'? What's up with that? Is that
loosing Also "loosed In Heaven"? For "God's Good Reason"? **
( * "commission" discussed # 84 in 'Is There More Than one gospel' thread... )

+
Is not this also harmonious with Paul's 'Final Declaration' to these Jews?:


[ ** Is this not the Point Where God Set Aside the stumbling / fallen
Praise God For That! Amen?

Thus, it seems to me that then, this definitely agrees With Scripture,
Correct?:

"those two verses you referenced, they point out that Paul is an apostle
to a particular group of people."

Great Bible discussion, I just humbly ask that you don’t take my word
for anything, but that you consider this information in the manner of
the Bereans of old, according to rule # 4 Bible study Rules!:

Amen.

Loving the discussion. I feel sharper already

Absolutely, stay with the scriptures but we have to be very careful. We can still get it wrong. What I see is we all have filters. We can read a passage many times and still not truly understand what it’s trying to tell us because of our preconceived ideas (filters). Just look at all the different beliefs from the same bible and all use scripture to support their way of thinking. Look at you and me. I only use scripture also. I’m not part of a denomination and I only believe what the bible tells me. Sounds like you’re the same and yet we have very different ideas. Scary huh? That’s why I challenge others and hope they challenge me.

What the RCC did with Peter I see a lot. Men will take a verse(s) out of context and build a doctrine around it.

Yes, there was a purpose for the timing. The gospel was to the Jew FIRST. They were the ones looking for the Messiah and had the scripture to confirm the Messiah. Now it was time to reach out to the Gentiles. Peter converted Cornelius preaching the same gospel he has always preached. Nothing new. Speaking of timing. When did Paul first preach to the Gentiles?

Not necessarily. I’ve read “my gospel’ for over thirty years and have always understood it as the one and only gospel. Even you pointing it out, I’m still convinced there’s one gospel. It’s the gospel of Christ, not gospel of Paul. Paul is merely saying the gospel entrusted to him. He says in other places “the gospel I preached”.
May I suggest you’re putting too much emphasis on a word to fit your thinking.

Honestly, using simple logic and turning off the filter, which would cause a major problem? 13 men working together as one spreading one gospel all over the world or 12 spreading one gospel and 1 spreading a different gospel? Can you imagine the confusion, a Peter and Paul disciple trying to convince the other they have the right gospel?

Let’s look at the context. The context is, does someone need to be physically circumcised to become a Christian. The problem was Christian Jews were trying to force circumcision upon the Gentiles.
Acts 15:1 But some men came down from Judea and were teaching the brothers, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”
That is the context. That is the reason Paul goes to the apostles.
2 And after Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and debate with them, Paul and Barnabas and some of the others were appointed to go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and the elders about this question.

Paul didn’t go to straighten the apostles out. He went to make sure he was right. Look what Paul says in order to make sure I was not running or had not run in vain.

To be continued.....

This is proof there is no physical circumcision in the gospel. The bible says false brethren were preaching circumcision.
After they discussed it this is what they sent in the letter.
Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions, The apostles nor elders instructed circumcision. You won't find anywhere that they did.

Both the 12 and Paul did practice it depending on the situation only so it would not be a hindrance to the gospel as Paul did here.
Paul wanted Timothy to accompany him, and he took him and circumcised him because of the Jews who were in those places, for they all knew that his father was a Greek.

Remember the context, this meeting is to discuss if circumcision is required of the gospel. In the Greek for that verse, gospel is only in the sentence once. Which is how it should be, one gospel to two different peoples.
More accurate ESV 7 On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised
The gospel to group A and the gospel to group B. Same gospel different people.

Remember, Paul is there to discuss is circumcision required. They’re in fellowship because they’re preaching the same gospel that does not require circumcision. Think about it. If there was a difference, wouldn’t this be the place to make that difference clear?? Does the decision of the meeting prove two different gospels?

Reading too much into it. Are you saying at this point they became exclusive for their perspective audience? I don’t believe that is the case. We might not have letters to places the apostles went, but history tells us they did travel the world.

As far as Paul’s final declaration, I think you’re applying your filter. Jesus also quoted that same scripture way back in Matt. 13.

God never set Israel aside. That is another subject all together so maybe later or another thread. Unless it will help you to see there is only one gospel, then we can go down that road.

I don’t. I study the scriptures, first in context then how it harmonize with the other scriptures.

So let me ask.. you read the OT and then NT and you don't see this "grace"? The 11 knew Paul's words were scripture. With out this "grace" we would not know Him. Not going to add mans word to it "gospel". If one will not listen to Paul you won't listen to Christ.

God has given us the gospel proclaimed by the 12 in Acts 2 and we see 3,000 people believed, were baptized and were added. Is this not grace?

Can you point to the passage where Paul first preached this "other" super gospel?

Thanks for not just giving a negative. If someone doesn't agree with me, let's talk about it.

Awesome, I as well appreciate this kind and civil discussion

Yes, that's why I try to stay away from the confusing so-called 'modern,
easier-to-understand versions' and the associated 'textual criticisms" (questioning? ) of God's Preserved Word Of Truth, and stay within the
guidelines (filters?) of Bible study Rules! Amen?

Thanks, I appreciate the suggestion. I do try to emphasize The Word where
God Does So - if He Says it Once, I simply 'pay attention', Twice would be pay
double attention, but Three Times would be Really wake/sit UP and pay Triple
attention, eh? - ie.: universalists dislike me mentioning Mark 9:44-48, eh?
I perceive that you, though, 'would take it as a challenge', right?

I haven't thought about that, but you and @MAXWELL will probably get along
famously, as 'logic' is his forte (The misunderstood book of James 117 / 120), eh?

If obeying God's Command in Rule #2 Bible study Rules is considered a filter (that needs to be turned off), then I would have to agree with This
Well Known (Transdispensational? ) Biblical Truth:

Now that you are feeling sharper, and still firmly convinced of only one gospel,
we can proceed to the final challenging round for discussion which would be:

Amen.

One more comment on this before we move on. Here is a point by point of Acts2 &13
2:22 Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth,
13:16 So Paul stood up, and motioning with his hand said:“Men of Israel and you who fear God, listen.

2:23 this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men.
13:28 And though they found in him no guilt worthy of death, they asked Pilate to have him executed.

2: none
13:29 they took him down from the tree and laid him in a tomb

2:24 God raised him up,
13:30 But God raised him from the dead,

2:29 Brothers, I may say to you with confidence about the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.
13:36 For David, after he had served the purpose of God in his own generation, fell asleep and was laid with his fathers and saw corruption,

2:32 This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses.
13:31 and for many days he appeared to those who had come up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are now his witnesses to the people.

2:31 he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.
13:37 but he whom God raised up did not see corruption.

2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
13:38 Let it be known to you therefore, brothers, that through this man forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,

2:36 Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”
13:23 Of this man's offspring God has brought to Israel a Savior, Jesus, as he promised.

2:33 Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing.
13: none

There is more but this is enough

Thanks for asking, "When did Paul first preach to the Gentiles?" It caused me to review that point, and provided answers to a few questions brought up by others recently. The Acts 13 account confirms Paul preached the same gospel message to both Jews and Gentiles.


"Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.
And as John fulfilled his course, he said, Whom think ye that I am? I am not he. But, behold, there cometh one after me, whose shoes of his feet I am not worthy to loose.
Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent....(Acts 13:23-41)


"And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.

Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." (Acts 13:42-48)

I agree. The first time we have recorded of Paul preaching the gospel is in Acts 13. As you have pointed out it is also the first time we see Gentiles hearing the gospel from Paul. Paul's gospel is almost point for point the same as Peters in Acts 2.

Who converted the Christians in Rome, good question. May current understanding, it doesn't tell us for sure, so we have to speculate. In the list of Jews at Pentecost we have this. Acts 2:10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome,
I would suggest it's like we see in Corinth. They were converted by various people. What I mean is that each one of you says, “I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.”

I would venture to say some of those in Rome could have even been converted by Paul, but we can't know for sure unless someone knows of a passage I do not.

Romans 16:7 says this is all about Andrunicus and Junia, fellow prisoners who were "IN Christ" before Paul's conversion.

Romans 16:7
KJV_Cambridge(i) 7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

This is incorrect.

Go to Acts 9:20 And straightway he [Paul] preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God... 22 But Saul increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus, proving that this is very Christ.

To "preach Christ" is to preach the Gospel. Saul had already heard the Gospel being preached by the other apostles. But he was opposing the Gospel at that time. Now he was preaching the Gospel.

You are correct. My bad. What I meant was, what was the substance of the gospel that Paul was preaching.

Jesus sent the 12 out to preach the gospel and the first time they did we have Peter's sermon. We have recorded the gospel they were preaching, so after that when it says word of the Lord or preached Jesus, we know what was preaching. If Paul was converting Christians with a different gospel, it would be nice to know what he was preaching. In Acts 9:20 we would have to assume Paul was preaching the same thing as Peter without more information. Thankfully, God recorded what Paul was preaching in Acts 13.

Sorry, that was my point.