Does getting the "Trib" correct help?

They believed they were aiding in setting up God's kingdom on earth and that they would be raptured because of it,,instead they were making the image of the beast that received the deadly wound and were left behind and faced the wrath of God because they worshiped it's image and did not wait for the return of our Lord Jesus and for he himself to to bring it with him at his coming.

Be careful what you say is "of God",,anyone who denies that Jesus is not the Christ is "the liar"... https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_john/2-22.htm

Yes "anyone who denies that Jesus is the Christ is the liar", and is anti-Christ(thanks for catching that)...

It will matter a lot when the trib is near and about to take place.

Here's an issue with pre-trib. The bible speaks of false Christs and even Antichrist's plus a singular mention of Antichrist is used by John. That's the one we think of ruling during the Great Tribulation. As a false Christ it is commonly believed he will imitate Christ and the things Christ will do. Revelation 13 mentions miracles being used to deceive people. Paul also said the man of sin would do the same (lying wonders). These miracles to deceive as not described so we have to guess. Well, it isn't much of a stretch to think a false Christ might produce a false rapture and even a false resurrection. The bible says our gathering to Christ will not happen until two things happen: the Apostasy and the revealing of the man of sin (the Antichrist). That means no rapture before the Great Tribulation starts. It endangers believers in the pre-trib doctrine because they could be deceived by the false Christ and any possible false rapture.

If you were the devil/ac etc and you wanted to deceive Christians, wouldn't you fake a second coming, resurrection and rapture and give them a "heavenly" experience of those things? It would be very hard to reject it all if you are pre-trib. Post-tribbers are expecting these deceiving miracles and that false Christ. Pre-tribbers aren't.

Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.


Parlor tricks wouldn't be impressive enough to deceive people so these deceiving miracles will be huge things. I think making people feel immortal and making them feel like they had been raptured to heaven is not an outrageous idea. It's therefore extremely dangerous to believe that Jesus will just come down at any moment and rapture people. It goes against scripture and places them directly in the path of Apostasy. The most ironic and sad part of that is that most pre-tribbers believe the Apostasy (Apostasia in Greek) is the rapture rather than what it actually is, a falling away or defection from the truth, from Christ and Christianity.

When I post against pre-trib, I am hoping to save people from the possible mistake of an eternity. It's wiser to believe a post-trib rapture. It's scary but Christians have been persecuted and murdered throughout Christian history and that will happen in an even worse way during the great Tribulation. No one can "miss" the rapture anyways. God knows who is meant to be raptured. Your belief in when it happens doesn't matter to God nor affects who God will have raptured.

I agree with you - it does matter because we want to handle the word of God correctly.

You do not believe in a Pre-trib. Rapture but rather a Post-Trib. Rapture. There are many things wrong with that view, which is often referred to as the "Yo-Yo Rapture. We meet the Lord in the air and come right back down to earth. What then would be the purpose? We, believers, can stay right here and wait for the Lord to come down. Of all the Rapture teachings, this one makes the least sense. In the Pre-Trib. the church is raptured just as the last 7 years begin. (Great Tribulation) In the Mid-Trib. the church is raptured just before the last three and half years, (When God's Judgements are being poured out upon the earth.). But what then is the purpose of a Post-Trib. Rapture? If the churches of Jesus Christ are going through the Rapture, then what would be the purpose of the 144,000 being sealed as witnesses for the Gospel. The churches were and are the witnesses of the Gospel message. The only logical conclusion, would be the church is not present. This too agrees with: Rev_3:10 Because thou didst keep the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of trial, that hour which is to come upon the whole world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. (Note how Jesus and John used the word "hour" in his writings: John 5:28, 16:2 and 1 John 2:18)

You argue for us to be prepared for the Apostacy and The Anti-Christ which is to come and we should always be on guard against these things. There is, even at this time, a falling away from the Truth of God. However, you stated that the Anti-Christ will be manifested in the Great Tribulation days but Scripture teaches that the Anti-Christ will be manifested before the Tribulation. He is not born in the Tribulation. He already exists and is working in the shadows and will gain notoriety as the days of Great Tribulation approach.

Additionally, it is the world who will be deceived by the Anti-Christ - not believers. While believers are to be ready in every season to do battle against the lies of the Devil..... Scripture does not teach that believers will "fall away". See: Rev_13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. AND Rev_17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and is about to come up out of the abyss, and to go into perdition. And they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, they whose name hath not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast, how that he was, and is not, and shall come.

Therefore, the Pre-Trib. and Mid-Trib. have a better argument.

Perhaps the bigger question though, is where does one stand on the Millennial Kingdom. Will there be one or not?

Why would we go somewhere else though? Because right after the Lord returns in a Post-Trib Rapture, He conquers the AC and Satan and the opposing world to establish the Millennial Age. I can understand if Jesus takes us up if the rapture was before the Great Tribulation to wait things out, but in a Post-Trib Rapture, the Great Tribulation had already passed and therefore no waiting around require.


Where do you get idea that the 144,000 are going to spread the Gospel message? Because if you read Revelation 14, it is an angel who spreads the gospel:

Revelation 14:6 Then I saw another angel flying in midair, and he had the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth—to every nation, tribe, language and people. 7 He said in a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water.”

The 144,000 are actually the firstfruits, but no mention of them spreading the gospel.

Revelation 14:4 These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb.




I understand "keep thee from the hour of trial" to simply mean that God will keep our salvation in Him safely, not so much as take us out of the situation. Just like with Noah who God didn't take out of the Flood, but got Noah through it. It can also be said that even if a faithful, enduring Christian dies in Christ, their salvation remains intact as opposed to the unfaithful Christian that apostatizes (falls away) from the Lord.


Please read his post over again. He NEVER said that the AC will manifest or be born in the Tribulation. You've falsely accused him of claiming something he didn't.

I do agree with you that the AC already exists and is a full grown adult working up through the ranks of the "powerful". We just don't know his identity yet, but he isn't someone we've already heard of.



The 2 Thessalonions does say there will be a great rebellion before the Rapture can occur, along with the revealing of the AC, so yes, Scripture DOES teach that there will be a great falling away among believers. if it comforts you, these specific individuals were rather shallow in their beliefs and walk with the Lord to begin with - not necessarily true believers.


Not really. As a matter of fact, if you DON'T spiritually prepare to endure to the end in the Post-Trib end times, then you might not make it. Because even the Bible says that this period of time will be the worst in the history of the world. You think the Jewish Holocaust was bad? This is going to be far worse - and it will be aimed at everyone who defies the AC, namely faithful Christian believers. The Bible says that the AC will be given power over Christians and to conquer them (Revelation 13:7) The AC will behead those who refuse his mark.

But there are actual rewards for dying and remaining faithful to the Lord for certain believers during the Post-Trib end times.

Revelation 20:4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


Yeah, there will be one. The purpose is to show that even in a world where Jesus rules, man can still sin without Satan's influence, showing that we are still in need of God in order to live godly lives. Satan is allowed out at the end of the Millennium only because man would not be able to fight against God with such puny strength. They think that Satan actually has a fighting chance to win against God. But he's just going to embarrass himself as well as everyone who will side with him when Jesus barely exerts a molecule of His strength to send Satan hurling back to the Lake of Fire.

The the Great White Throne Judgement and a New Heaven and Earth without a Sea for all of us God and man together to enjoy!

🌷

In Pretrib Jesus descends out of heaven meets the raptured then yo-yo's back up to heaven. What happens in Post-trib isn't a yo-yo action.


You don't understand the purpose of the rapture. Christ wants the living saints on Earth to join his army behind him. In order for that to happen the saints will be raised up into the air to a place in the clouds. These people were spread out all through the Earth so this rapture is a literal gathering from all over to one specific place, join the army and follow Christ.


And not a word of that originates from any book of the bible. It's pure imagination.




Yet Pretrib NEVER quotes this verse:


Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

7 churches are mentioned of the Christians in the first century yet pre-trib takes one line from one letter and uses it as if this one thing somehow proves the entire church will be raptured before the great tribulation. That's horribly bad exegesis.

The problems:

1. Obviously, it's only said about 1/7 of the churches so that isn't a pre-trib rapture of the whole church.


2, The fact that tribulation is mentioned for one of the other churches further disproves any idea that the church won't face tribulation. The truth is that neither is talking about the rapture or the great tribulation.

So which is it? No tribulation or some? Pre-trib is inconsistent and misleading when they cite Rev 3:10 and not also Rev 2:10.


Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.


3. "keep thee from the hour of temptation" is not the same as "rapture you out of the world to avoid the great tribulation". This means to not fall for or accept the temptations offered like how Christ was kept from falling for any of the devil's temptations. Jesus was not raptured out of the world to be kept from those temptations and neither shall the church.

1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to BEAR it.

One can escape something by being able to bear it. It is not a physical escape but a mental and spiritual escape.

What happens to the Pre-Trib Saints during the Tribulation ---what does scripture says about how God will protect the Saints who have accepted Christ before the Tribulation Begins from God's punishment during the Tribulation ---
--do they have to find their own hiding places to secure their Sainthood ----does God have a plan in place to protect His pre Trib Saints from the Anti-Christ and taking His mark -----God only says in Revelations 7 that the 144,000 are protected -----these are the 12 tribes of the Jewish nation who God Chose in the beginning and He is honoring His pledge to them ---

So -----where is the Scripture that protects His pre-tib Saints which includes the Gentiles from all harm during the tribulation

If God doesn't have a plan for His Pre-Trib Saints to protect them and they can't loose their Salvation according to scripture ---how does God keep them safe ---provide a scripture that Says God Protects His Pre --Trib Saints from the Anti Christ and supplies them with all they need so that when the Anti-Christ says if they don't take the mark they can't by or sell anything -----which will lead them to die or be killed by the anti-Christ ------

And that goes against what God says in His word ----for anyone who has received Jesus in their heart before the tribulation begins -----as God says -----

There is no condemnation in Christ Jesus ----- so all pre-Trib Saints will be put under condemnation during the tribulation ----so that makes God a LAIR -------and His world nil in void -----

So show a scripture where God protects His Pre -Trib Saints against and condemnation that they have to endure during the 7 year tribulation ----they can't be re Saved ----as they are already saved -----and heaven bound -----

The word Condemnation in the Greek means -----

Strong's Concordance
katakrinó: to give judgment against
Definition: to give judgment against
Usage: I condemn, judge worthy of punishment

I say----------- the Saints are free from punishment

So what is the Greek word for Punishment

Strong's Concordance
timóreó: to punish, avenge
in the N. T. τιμώρω τινα, to take vengeance on one, to punish:

I say -------What reason does God have to take vengeance on people who already have accepted His Son and who He already has deemed Righteous ---and Heaven bound by sending them through the Horror of what He Himself is orchestrating to bring unbelievers to Him so He can save as many unbelievers as possible -------it makes no sense for God to take vengeance on His already Redeemed Children -----

What is His Purpose in sending Saints into a tribulation to become Saints ------

God's saints would be experiencing great Judgment---persecution and punishment by going through the 7 Year tribulation ------and that goes against this Scripture ------and goes against God's Promises of protection for His children -----



It is the wicked ---the sinners who deserve the condemnation ---not the Saints -------

I say
So I await anyone to provide me a Scripture that tells the Pre --Trib Saints that they will be put in a safe place and their protection is guaranteed that they will not suffer punishment or judgment in any way shape or form during the Tribulation ------and will be kept safe from the Anti-Christ who will kill all who refuse his mark ------

Or a Scripture that says the pre -Trib Saints will preach the Gospel to the whole word during the tribulation -------

I don't think anyone will find one Scripture that says that ----in the 22 books of Revelation ------

So what is God's plan in the Scripture for the Protection of all who have received Jesus in their hearts before the Tribulation begins ------God's Promise is a promise of Protection for His Children -------so He has to protect His Children during the Tribulation or God has lied ------and His Word is of no effect ----Scripture please

and

Also provide a scripture that says that at the end of the tribulation that the Pre--Trib Saints will be raptured with all Post trib Saints ------

Sure there are practical advantages. Since the Church will not be subject to the Tribulation, Christians can focus their time and energy on the things which God wants them to do -- particularly good works.

Using the term "yo-yo action" is insulting and demeaning. And since it would apply to Christ it is also blasphemous.

But your comment reveals your ignorance of the purpose and the significance of the Pre-Tribulation Resurrection/Rapture.

So are you going to chastise the one who brought it up? No. Hypocrisy.


Pretrib is not true, so the made up Jesus who comes pretrib for the rapture is imaginary. apostasia comes from the antichrist and Pretrib loves apostasia.



Ignorance comes from the unscriptural concept of a Pretrib rapture.

So tell us what God's plan is to Keep the Pre-Trib Saints from experiencing any condemnation during the Tribulation --------as God says there is no punishment for those who are in Christ Jesus ------So God should have a scripture somewhere in Revelation that tells the Pre=trib Saints how He plans on protecting us from His vengeance that He is unleashing on this earth for all unbelievers giving them a chance to become Saints -----

He tells us how He is going to protect the 144,000 Jews ---He marks them ------so where is the Scripture that says He will mark the Pre-Trib Saints for their protection -----

God has promised to protect His children -----so if He sends His Pre-trib Saints into the wolves of His tribulation -----and doesn't protect us from the judgment of the Anti-Christ then that makes God a Liar and says His word also lies -----

This is what God promised -below -----so why would He Himself send His Pre-Trib Saints into His Tribulation and then have to protect us from the evil one ------as He has promised in His word -----The tribulation is for people to get saved -----and the Pre-Trib Saints are already Saved and free from punishment and God's vengeance according to Scripture ------So there should be a Scripture that says that God will put His Mark on all Pre-Trib Saints and this is His mark of protection like He is doing with the 144,000 ------and there is no such scripture to say that --or there should be a Scripture to tell the Pre-Trib Saints what God plans to do with us ---and again there is no such scripture giving us any idea of how He plans to Protect us from the Horror that He is bringing upon this earth and the persecution and judgment and punishment from the Anti -Christ -------go figure -----



Is God a liar ---I don't think so -----Does God go back on His Promises ---I don't think so -----So if lets say that God Does send His Pre-Trib Saints into His Horror ---and Vengeance Which makes no sense ------it really doesn't effect the Pre-Trib Saints as they will come out unscathed ---Protected as Promised ---as will the 144,000 ----so either way the Pre-Trib Saints win ------they are either Raptured pre-Trib or as many of you think post trib -----makes no difference -----

You know when the sweet holy Spirit fell they were of one accord. There was no division no wondering no gossip whatsoever.

I can not find a verse that say I was promised tomorrow. I know I can have 70+ years but there is a catch to that. So what some have been doing is exactly what the word says would happen in the last days.

A song I have not thought of in years just popped up. HAHA I knew some of the song but no clue who wrote it. Now I looked it up and ooh yeah 2nd Chapter of Acts. Should be easy to see

Mansion Builder
I've been told that there are those
Who will learn how to fly
And I've been told that there are those
Who will never die
And I've been told that there are stars
That will never lose their shine
And that there is a Morning Star
Who knows my mind

So why should I worry?
Why should I fret?
'Cause I've got a Mansion Builder
Who ain't through with me yet

And I've been told that there's a
Crystal lake in the sky
And every tear from my eyes
Is saved when I cry
And I've been told there'll come a time
When the sun will cease to shine
And that there is a Morning Star
Who knows my mind

Since fear is the primary go-to tactic of deception, getting the trib correct is important in not fearing while experiencing those things "which thou shalt suffer." And in the pre-trib proponents' case, there is an underlying implication that we should fear "missing" the rapture and being "left-behind," sin't there? That is, the go-to rhetorical scare tactic employed to coerce people to accept a certain conclusion.

On another note of the beast, being at the time of writing, "is not," but was and is to emerge. Israel was "is" at the time of writing, wasn't it? So it can't be Israel, and likewise Rome was "is" at that time... And America wasn't "was" at the time of writing, so.... who then was "is not" at that time but that had been? and soon after did emerge?

Yes, agree, the church won't be subject to the tribulation nor will anyone else for that matter since it (the one typically referenced in Matt 24:21) has already happened in 70 AD.

Essentially "Eschatology" is nothing more than a "Religious Buzz Word" meaning "Rank Speculation".

And any way, I've got a book that PROVES Biblically, without the shadow of a doubt, that the RAPTURE WILL OCCUR during the "Feast of Trumpets" in 1988!!! I can hardly wait!!!!

Kind of like "Join our church or you will burn in hell forever."


The issue is that the beast isn't only "was and is not" because it lso adds "and yet is". So who can explain how a beast was (in the past), is not at the time of writing, but also "yet is" at the time of the writing.

Rev_17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

So basically this kingdom used to exist, does not exist now but kinda does exist now.

The Apostate church won't be because they will be standing with the beast. The faithful church will be persecuted in the trib as promised by Christ in the OD, and various parts of Rev that describe the time of trib.

False. The trib is part of the signs of the return of Christ and Christ said that said generation of people would see everything Christ described which includes the Coming and gathering of the saints by angels. Neither events happened in the first century.

The saints aren't ever subject to God's vengeance so no protection is needed. Why would you even think that? God says the saints are subject to the wrath of satan and that the saints will be killed by the beast. No protection from God against satan's wrath.

The GT is a war against Christians because of the wrath of satan. It is not the wrath of God.

Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


That war is the great tribulation, as seen beginning in Rev 13. It is against the church.

The 5th seal and Rev 13:7 and Rev 20:4 speak of those of the church who will be killed in the GT.

Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.