There will be no Rapture!!!

I have been trying to tell you bro (and warn others at the same time!)
.....you just don't get it. Never have.

Just to clarify: the rapture is in no way within the time-constraints of the DOTL.

On the contrary, we are SNATCHED/HARPAZOed OUT of the earth/planet/world BEFORE the DOTL begins.
And according to Scripture, our rapture is an absolute requirement BEFORE the DOTL can commence.

Therefore the "PLACE-TIME-CAUSE" of the DOTL cannot and does not affect/impact us in any way.
We are heavenly bystanders, enjoying our 7 year honeymoon with the Lord.

It does say that:

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

There will be no gathering to Christ (rapture) until the Apostasy and man of sin's revealing takes place which places the rapture after the tribulation.

NO. JUST NOOOOOOOO. Another day, another post-tribber epic reading comprehension fail.
Embarrassing? Yes. Do they care? I doubt it. If they did they would not make it again. But they do. Over and over and OVER AGAIN!

2Th 2:1
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day (THE VERSE TWO DAY!) shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Weren't you just endorsing the idea that the coming of Jesus described in II Thessalonians 1 describes events that occur on 'that day'.

"tribulation saints" does not appear in the bible. They are just called saints and they entered the tribulation that way. Example, the two witnesses aren't trib converts. They are Christians anointed with the task of Christ's testimony during the trib. The bible places the rapture as after the trib not before it.

Here is the only passage about The Rapture that actually uses the Greek word that means a rapture, Harpazo:

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.(second coming reference)
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord (second coming reference) shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven (second coming reference) with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (the resurrection of the dead in Christ)
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up (harpazo) together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (the rapture)

Here we see the second coming mentioned 3 times, then the resurrection and then the rapture. This proves the rapture is connected to the second coming. All that needs to be proven is when the second coming happens to know when the rapture happens.


Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


The second coming happens AFTER the GT is over, so the rapture happens post-Trib. Circumventing these two passages is to ignore the scriptural evidence of WHEN the rapture is going to happen.

Ahhh look friend, I am endorsing the PRE-TRIB rapture. Because it is Biblical boilerplate doctrine.
These passages are absolutely clear as a bell.

1Th 5:2
For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

1Th 5:3
For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; (BIRTH PANGS! SEALS!) and they shall not escape.

1Th 5:4
But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

1Th 5:9
For God hath NOT appointed US to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Look at 'that day' described in the previous chapter. Jesus returns, gives the saints rests, executing vengeance on them that believe not the Gospel, when He comes to be glorified in the saints.

The chapter numbers were added by a monk in the 4th century. This all flows together.

Look at 'that day' described in the previous chapter. Jesus returns, gives the saints rests, executing vengeance on them that believe not the Gospel, when He comes to be glorified in the saints.

We can see from Matthew when this coming of the Lord as a thief will occur.

Matthew 24
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
...

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The coming of the Son of man is set AFTER the tribulation. Then we read in this same passage.

Matthew 24
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

So we see the coming of the Son of man, compared to the coming of the thief is set 'after the tribulation.

And pre-tribbers typically set the rapture somewhere around Revelation 3 and 4.

Revelation 16
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

Pre-tribbers see this passage as deep into the tribulation period. But the coming as a thief thing still applies.

And this also exposes a problem with pre-trib. The immediate audience of his letter was for the messengers of the seven churches, who were supposed to hear the letters. And here is a message warning the churches that the Lord is coming as a theif and blessing the one who watches and keeps his garments.

This is supposed to be encouragement for the churches. But how can pretribbers interpret this except to divorce it from it's actually, quite obvious, immediate audience, and make it only applicable to some future group that even aren't a part of the church according to pre-tribbers.

And pretribbers do all of this without a single shred of Biblical evidence that Jesus is coming back two more times or that there is an additional coming of Christ to accompany the rapture besides the one described in Revelation 19.



Compare that to the exhortation from Revelation 16, buried deep in the 'tribulational' part of Revelation, about watching and keeping garments clean.




The saints described in Revelation love not their lives, even to the death. The overcome Satan by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony. There is no reason to think that God is angry at them. That does not make much sense. Since they believe in Jesus, we should believe that God saves them, that they obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

There is no evidence for a pretrib rapture in the verses you quote.

@selahsays ....every legit Bible scholar know that the Second Coming of Jesus occurs in Rev 11:19.
After the AC rises to eminence and makes war with the Saints. After the mark of the beast rolls out. After the bowl judgements are rendered for the beast-worshippers.

It does say that:
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

There will be no gathering to Christ (rapture) until the Apostasy and man of sin's revealing takes place which places the rapture after the tribulation.

I'm sure all the legit Bible scholars figured that one out instantly lol.
"every legit Bible scholar know that the Second Coming of Jesus occurs in Rev 19:11."

@cv5
I said:
Satan comes at the 6th trump.
Jesus Christ comes at the 7th trump.

Don’t be deceived.

And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you: For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

- Mark 13:5-6 (KJV)

What gives you the right to alter my post? Shame on you; are you that desperate?

I stand by what I’ve said that Satan comes at the 6th trump and that Jesus Christ returns at the 7th trump. Are you saying that Satan returns at the 7th trump? Why have you omitted part of Revelation 11:15? Do you not believe that Jesus Christ, the Lord of lords and the King of kings, returns at the 7th trump?

And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

- Revelation 11:15 (KJV)

Have you even read the book of Revelation? Is the Truth of God’s Word just a game to you?

You still playing games?

No need to bother replying. Christians are nowhere to be found in Matt 24 to begin with. And no Christians anywhere in Rev ch 6-18.

This must be the worst mistake any post-tribber has ever made...

While I disagree with selahsays's placement of events...

... I just wanted to say that, I personally see Rev12:12 (Satan cast down... and his angels cast down with him... and that "woe into the earth") as taking place at the FIFTH Trumpet / FIRST woe... at the MID-Trib point, when 1260 days yet remain (vv.6,14)...

No need to bother replying. Christians are nowhere to be found in Matt 24 to begin with. And no Christians anywhere in Rev ch 6-18.