Demon possession in the old testament?

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HealthAndHappiness said:
Paul didn't want any "help" from a devil regardless of the kind.

My take away from this passage is that even if a demon speaks the truth about something, they are to be rebuked and authority established to not permit them any part in the church's ministry. I know of examples that some Christians would regard as "unchristian." They mistakenly are taught that you should allow anyone into the congregation and that they should be given opportunities to influence others.

A literal lesbian/ bi pagan was allowed to teach young children in an evangelical church. That should not happen. The woman actually was caught praying to demons.

A man possessed with a demon calling itself "Michael the Archangel" insisted the pastor read what it had written to the congregation. The demon timed his attack perfectly in sinc with the demonically influenced staff members that were leading others astray and being fired at that moment.
The demon was cast out of the church and the pastor charged with being a meanie.
The world loves their own and want feminized men in pulpits and men who submit to the devil in the name of their view of Jesus from a movie or somewhere unbiblical.

My former church had a demonized woman enter and take over a part of the service and try to cast a spell before the whole congregation. We ushers escorted her out as she raved.

So called believers and the media agree with the demons by insisting that they are allowed to speak to the churches. Then they demonize those who rebuke them. Some demons are smart and know how to manipulate. However, their strategy is often predictable.
Jesus rebuked them, told them to shut up and threw them out of the lost into pigs to be cast into the sea until they would be cast into the lake of fire at a later time.
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Yeah its sad honestly, I have met a number of people who led "churches" and we part of other groups that are pagan, but they act in front of everyone. One place people kept leaving and the guy said they were "fall aways" then when the people I knew that went to his "church" found out about what the guy was really doing they also left, certianly he also called them "fall aways." But not long after he went full wacko and began doing the same stuff you said that lady was doing, sad that people look to other humans like that and get misled.

HealthAndHappiness said:
Here's one that someone was able to video record.

Demon Insistent on Changing the Name of the Lord

You'll find people who are highly influenced by these demons, like the one above, in this and other forums. Listen to hear if it sounds familiar.
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The Scripture also records evil seeking to remove/replace His Name:

Jeremiah 23:26-27, "How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Yes, they are prophets of the deceit of their own minds; Who devise; plan and scheme, to cause My people to forget My Name through their dreams, which they tell every man to his neighbor, just as their fathers have forgotten My Name for Baal."

BAAL (DEITY) [Hebrew - baal] . Canaanite storm and fertility god. The name, which means “lord, ” is an epithet of the god Hadad (lit. “thunderer” ). Well-known from the OT, he is now extremely well-attested in the Ugaritic texts, in addition to being mentioned in other ancient texts. (Freedman, David Noel: The Anchor Bible Dictionary. New York : Doubleday, 1996, c1992, S. 1:546)
 
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I am not saying Enoch, what we can read Today, is worthy to be in the Bible.
I am saying though, the 300 Verses, specifically Inspired by 20 Writers to write by the Holy Spirit. And the fact we can take these Verses and see much of Enoch is Legit. Is a STATEMENT by God, to SHOW us why He took Enoch without physical Death.
Enoch's words, like all Prophets, will find their way into the Picture God paints as a whole explanation for certain outcomes in the Bible.

Truly, Enoch, is all about a Topic most Churches never preached about because they never knew how much of his Verses were Verses in the Bible. 300 is a LOT! Especially for an Oral Tradition. to have 300 Verses, Inspired by the Holy Spirit, based upon the spoken words of Enoch, should be enough to say this man has something important to say and we should know it.

We're in those days to now understand why OUR Bible uses the Spoken Words of a Man like Enoch, because, He is lined up with Daniel, Jesus Words and Matthew 24, Luke, Mark, Peter, Paul, Jude, John [Revelation].

He shows us the WAR because God made Earth, and the War coming to end it.

But on Demons, he knows them. He knows what they did to humanity. He shows us how God dealt with each one. He also shows us how the Fallen Angels had human women bore Nephilim whose souls become demons. They used God's Creation to create their own army.
 
Am i missing something?

God uses the word a Person Spoke, not wrote, 300 times in His Bible [our Bible], and that man is not Inspired, those Verses God used by having them WRITTEN on paper in ink, were not Inspired?

God used non inspirated words, in 300 Verses? Really?
 
The apostle Paul quotes Epimenides in Titus 1:12, but that does not mean we should give any
additional authority to Epimenides’ writings. The same is true with Jude 1:14–15. Jude quoting
from the Book of Enoch does not indicate the entire Book of Enoch is inspired, or even true. All
it means is that particular passage of Enoch is true. It is interesting to note that no scholars believe
the Book of Enoch to have truly been written by the Enoch in the Bible. Enoch was seven generations
from Adam, prior to the flood (Genesis 5:1–24). Evidently, though, the words Jude quotes were genuinely
something that Enoch prophesied—or the Bible would not attribute it to him: “Enoch, the seventh from
Adam, prophesied about these men” (Jude 1:14). This saying of Enoch was somehow handed down through
the generations and eventually recorded in the Book of Enoch, which is a pseudepigraphon, because claims
that the book of Enoch was written by Enoch are unfounded. source
 
Magenta said:
claims
that the book of Enoch was written by Enoch are unfounded. source
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Yet Jude calims "Enoch said", and its a literal quote from 1 Enoch 1:3-9...

Jude 1:14-15, “Ḥanoḵ (Enoch), the seventh from Aḏam, also prophesied of these, saying, “See, יהוה comes with His myriads of set-apart ones, to execute judgment on all, to punish all who are wicked among them concerning all their wicked works which they have committed in a wicked way, and concerning all the harsh words which wicked sinners have spoken against Him.”

1 Enoch 1:3-9, “And I [Enoch] took up with a parable (saying), “The God of the universe, the Holy Great One, will come forth from his dwelling. And from there he will march upon Mount Sinai and appear in his camp emerging from heaven with a mighty power. And everyone shall be afraid, and Watchers shall quiver. And great fear and trembling shall seize them unto the ends of the earth. Mountains and high places will fall down and be frightened. And high hills shall be made low; and they shall melt like a honeycomb before the flame. And earth shall be rent asunder, and all that is upon the earth shall perish. And there shall be a judgment upon all, (including) the righteous. And to all the righteous he will grant peace. He will preserve the elect, and kindness shall be upon them. They shall all belong to God and they shall prosper and be blessed; and the light of God shall shine unto them. Behold, he will arrive with ten million [ten thousand times a thousand] of the holy ones in order to execute judgment upon all. He will destroy the wicked ones and censure all flesh on account of everything that they have done, that which the sinners and the wicked ones committed against him.”

Nothing from the 1st scroll, which makes up the first 36 chapters, contradicts anything in Scripture.

The rest of it, I agree with you.
 
The_Watchers_2017 said:
So, the Holy Spirit, that inspired this writing, is saying, this is a lie that will be believed?
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the mystery of lawlessness is what is restraining, as the NKJV renders 2Thess 2:6, "And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time."
The mystery of lawlessness is working until now. That is, another description of him would be the mystery of "truthlessness," especially considering that the truth is a law standing, and will always stand, as a rock, on its own merit.

The lie is a mystery because it's confusing, you have to take it on faith, because it doesn't really make sense otherwise, but faith is a powerful 'substance' so, many give power to the lie.
 
timemeddler said:
I got curious the other day, wondering if I could find any accounts of someone being possessed in the old testament, but came up emty. I have to assume it was happening, does anyone know of any reference to it before Mathew? There's accounts of sorcery multiple times and other demonic things. Are there accounts of possesion I don't know about?
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where did the evil spirits we suddenly see possessing people and corrupting thier free Will in the nt come from ? Why doesn’t the ot talk about them ?

“And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

( suddenly earth has been flooded with evil spirits making war against the children in the story who have the testimony of Jesus And obey God )


And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:7-12, 17‬ ‭KJV‬‬


When Gods plan of salvstion became known satan and a third of the angels in heaven rebelled and went to war in heaven trying to overthrow Gods kingdom in heaven they lost and were barred and cast out of heaven into the earth and so when Jesus came they were trying to stop the plan you can see it happening the evil spirits know Jesus and they submit to him because they are the fallen angels who lost the war on heaven and know thoer time is limited

“And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way. And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭8:28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you can also see Satan possessing people in an attempt to stop Jesus from completing the plan

“Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve. And he went his way, and communed with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray him unto them.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭22:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Satan was trying to somehow stop Jesus break him before he went to the cross Jesus was struggling mightily and god at a few points sends one of his angels tonjesus

“And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed, saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.

And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭22:41-44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We sometimes think of Jesus like a robot but his humanity is important that he fought and felt the fight and overcame

all the spirits that suddenly begin to become subject matter in the gospel are the results of that war in heaven when the evil spiritual beings were cast out now they are on earth corrupting men without them even knowing evil spirits do exist man has become blind to spiritual things we watched too many ghost and demon movies and forgot reality of those things
 
SpeakTruth101 said:
Yet Jude calims "Enoch said", and its a literal quote from 1 Enoch 1:3-9...

Jude 1:14-15, “Ḥanoḵ (Enoch), the seventh from Aḏam, also prophesied of these, saying, “See, יהוה comes with His myriads of set-apart ones, to execute judgment on all, to punish all who are wicked among them concerning all their wicked works which they have committed in a wicked way, and concerning all the harsh words which wicked sinners have spoken against Him.”

1 Enoch 1:3-9, “And I [Enoch] took up with a parable (saying), “The God of the universe, the Holy Great One, will come forth from his dwelling. And from there he will march upon Mount Sinai and appear in his camp emerging from heaven with a mighty power. And everyone shall be afraid, and Watchers shall quiver. And great fear and trembling shall seize them unto the ends of the earth. Mountains and high places will fall down and be frightened. And high hills shall be made low; and they shall melt like a honeycomb before the flame. And earth shall be rent asunder, and all that is upon the earth shall perish. And there shall be a judgment upon all, (including) the righteous. And to all the righteous he will grant peace. He will preserve the elect, and kindness shall be upon them. They shall all belong to God and they shall prosper and be blessed; and the light of God shall shine unto them. Behold, he will arrive with ten million [ten thousand times a thousand] of the holy ones in order to execute judgment upon all. He will destroy the wicked ones and censure all flesh on account of everything that they have done, that which the sinners and the wicked ones committed against him.”

Nothing from the 1st scroll, which makes up the first 36 chapters, contradicts anything in Scripture.

The rest of it, I agree with you.
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I believe, just by the discussions that ever involved Enoch, no amount of Fact will be sufficient here. This stance against Enoch stems from a Doctrine about the Lineage of Seth. Make a Doctrine based upon HISTORY of HUMANS leading to Christ, and not so much, about Biblical Theology.

Which is why Enoch, Biblical Theology + part of Seth, is blatantly looked over.
 
Mem said:
the mystery of lawlessness is what is restraining, as the NKJV renders 2Thess 2:6, "And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time."
The mystery of lawlessness is working until now. That is, another description of him would be the mystery of "truthlessness," especially considering that the truth is a law standing, and will always stand, as a rock, on its own merit.

The lie is a mystery because it's confusing, you have to take it on faith, because it doesn't really make sense otherwise, but faith is a powerful 'substance' so, many give power to the lie.
Click to expand...
That is a good point on who is holding what back. And a different perspective on what you see this Verse is declaring.
 
The_Watchers_2017 said:
I believe, just by the discussions that ever involved Enoch, no amount of Fact will be sufficient here. This stance against Enoch stems from a Doctrine about the Lineage of Seth. Make a Doctrine based upon HISTORY of HUMANS leading to Christ, and not so much, about Biblical Theology.

Which is why Enoch, Biblical Theology + part of Seth, is blatantly looked over.
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Maybe but I think it is purposefully done, I cant find my notes on it right now but this is from a random website

Origin of the Sethite View

It was in the 5th century a.d. that the "angel" interpretation of Genesis 6 was increasingly viewed as an embarrassment when attacked by critics. (Furthermore, the worship of angels had begun within the church. Also, celibacy had also become an institution of the church. The "angel" view of Genesis 6 was feared as impacting these views.)

Celsus and Julian the Apostate used the traditional "angel" belief to attack Christianity. Julius Africanus resorted to the Sethite interpretation as a more comfortable ground. Cyril of Alexandria also repudiated the orthodox "angel" position with the "line of Seth" interpretation. Augustine also embraced the Sethite theory and thus it prevailed into the Middle Ages. It is still widely taught today among many churches who find the literal "angel" view a bit disturbing. There are many outstanding Bible teachers who still defend this view.

Problems with the Sethite View

Beyond obscuring a full understanding of the events in the early chapters of Genesis, this view also clouds any opportunity to apprehend the prophetic implications of the Scriptural allusions to the "Days of Noah."3 Some of the many problems with the "Sethite View" include the following:
 
SpeakTruth101 said:
Maybe but I think it is purposefully done, I cant find my notes on it right now but this is from a random website

Origin of the Sethite View

It was in the 5th century a.d. that the "angel" interpretation of Genesis 6 was increasingly viewed as an embarrassment when attacked by critics. (Furthermore, the worship of angels had begun within the church. Also, celibacy had also become an institution of the church. The "angel" view of Genesis 6 was feared as impacting these views.)

Celsus and Julian the Apostate used the traditional "angel" belief to attack Christianity. Julius Africanus resorted to the Sethite interpretation as a more comfortable ground. Cyril of Alexandria also repudiated the orthodox "angel" position with the "line of Seth" interpretation. Augustine also embraced the Sethite theory and thus it prevailed into the Middle Ages. It is still widely taught today among many churches who find the literal "angel" view a bit disturbing. There are many outstanding Bible teachers who still defend this view.

Problems with the Sethite View

Beyond obscuring a full understanding of the events in the early chapters of Genesis, this view also clouds any opportunity to apprehend the prophetic implications of the Scriptural allusions to the "Days of Noah."3 Some of the many problems with the "Sethite View" include the following:
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Agreed, it has many holes and issues. But, they will fight tooth and nail over it.
 
The_Watchers_2017 said:
Agreed, it has many holes and issues. But, they will fight tooth and nail over it.
Click to expand...

Evil will conseal evil and the ignorant are useful. I try not to go off other peoples work, but rather seach out for myself, before I ever look at anyone else claims, I think this helps not to get false ideas in ones head. Besides if the SPirit can lead to truth, why not go to the SPirit of YHWH rather than man...
 
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The_Watchers_2017 said:
book of Enoch matches the Torah/Tanakh.
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Post #21 you are speaking of the book of Enoch. Again.
The_Watchers_2017 said:
I only ever said Enoch.
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Despite denying the fact by saying you only speak of the man...
The_Watchers_2017 said:
So, the Book of Enoch matches the MASTER TEXT better than your current Old Testament.
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... you mention the book of Enoch again in same post. That is at least three times.

Anyways, despite your denials and arguments in favour of accepting to book of Enoch as inspired, the facts
from the historical record show that the book of Enoch was never considered inspired or part of Jewish Scriptures.
 
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Pilgrimshope said:
you can also see Satan possessing people in an attempt to stop Jesus from completing the plan

“Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve. And he went his way, and communed with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray him unto them.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭22:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Satan was trying to somehow stop Jesus break him before he went to the cross Jesus was struggling mightily and god at a few points sends one of his angels tonjesus
Click to expand...

This may sound strange to some, but I see God using Satan to complete the plan, notice when Jesus said "what you do, do quickly" was after Satan entered into Judas, my first thought when reading is Jesus is commanding Satan. Similar to Matt 4 when God used Satan to show us some very insightful things regarding the Lord.

John 13:27 Now after the piece of bread, Satan entered him. Then Jesus said to him "What you do, do quickly"
 
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Clayman said:
This may sound strange to some, but I see God using Satan to complete the plan, notice when Jesus said "what you do, do quickly" was after Satan entered into Judas, my first thought when reading is Jesus is commanding Satan. Similar to Matt 4 when God used Satan to show us some very insightful things regarding the Lord.

John 13:27 Now after the piece of bread, Satan entered him. Then Jesus said to him "What you do, do quickly"
Click to expand...
Certainly Satan cannot do that which God will and/or would not allow .:)
 
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Clayman said:
This may sound strange to some, but I see God using Satan to complete the plan, notice when Jesus said "what you do, do quickly" was after Satan entered into Judas, my first thought when reading is Jesus is commanding Satan. Similar to Matt 4 when God used Satan to show us some very insightful things regarding the Lord.

John 13:27 Now after the piece of bread, Satan entered him. Then Jesus said to him "What you do, do quickly"
Click to expand...

This may sound strange to some, but I see God using Satan to complete the plan

God has foreknowledge of what will happen so yes indeed he’s using what Satan has done in order to remove all evil from creation and make all the good flourish and fill the new creation to come. I agree but would use a different phrase understand what your saying and agree with the principle

“For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God said a lot of things regarding terrible events in the ot he’s using satans evil rebellion to fulfill those judgements on earth because man has chosen sin rather than God his words have to be fulfilled both blessing and curse before the kingdom can be restored upon earth all things work together for the end of th glory of God and salvstion of his people but all things individually are t gods imposed Will we’ve chosen the curses he earned us about he was always telling us not to but we did anyways now that all has to be fulfilled because he spoke it and it cannot fail or be untrue just as salvstion cannot fail

sorry to ramble on I agree with what your saying
 
Magenta said:
Post #21 you are speaking of the book of Enoch. Again.
Despite denying the fact by saying you only speak of the man...
... you mention the book of Enoch again in same post. That is at least three times.

Anyways, despite your denials and arguments in favour of accepting to book of Enoch as inspired, the facts
from the historical record show that the book of Enoch was never considered inspired or part of Jewish Scriptures.
Click to expand...

Yes it only appears about 250 bc during a Jewish apostasy between the time of Malachi and matthews events time of the maccabees …..

also just by reading it it has so many conflicts with the Bible’s narrative it’s like a puzzle piece that doesn’t fit the picture

also there are several very different versions most read the Ethiopian bersion …..but the others are all different and to boot the oldest manuscript isnt even 50 percent complete
 
SpeakTruth101 said:
Yeah its sad honestly, I have met a number of people who led "churches" and we part of other groups that are pagan, but they act in front of everyone. One place people kept leaving and the guy said they were "fall aways" then when the people I knew that went to his "church" found out about what the guy was really doing they also left, certianly he also called them "fall aways." But not long after he went full wacko and began doing the same stuff you said that lady was doing, sad that people look to other humans like that and get misled.



The Scripture also records evil seeking to remove/replace His Name:

Jeremiah 23:26-27, "How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Yes, they are prophets of the deceit of their own minds; Who devise; plan and scheme, to cause My people to forget My Name through their dreams, which they tell every man to his neighbor, just as their fathers have forgotten My Name for Baal."

BAAL (DEITY) [Hebrew - baal] . Canaanite storm and fertility god. The name, which means “lord, ” is an epithet of the god Hadad (lit. “thunderer” ). Well-known from the OT, he is now extremely well-attested in the Ugaritic texts, in addition to being mentioned in other ancient texts. (Freedman, David Noel: The Anchor Bible Dictionary. New York : Doubleday, 1996, c1992, S. 1:546)
Click to expand...


Good bible reference Speak Truth. 👍
The examples I've seen recently have been regurgitation of the "Sacred Name"/ Hebrew Roots blasphemies.
 
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