Paul saw the ten commandments as part of the "ministry of death."

Yeah the law is received by man like this is my point this is why it’s veiled I’m.sayong when you read the law it’s like your seeing god like this

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with thee, and believe thee for ever.

And Moses told the words of the people unto the LORD. And the LORD said unto Moses, Go unto the people, and sanctify them to day and to morrow, and let them wash their clothes, and be ready against the third day: for the third day the LORD will come down in the sight of all the people upon mount Sinai.

And thou shalt set bounds unto the people round about, saying, Take heed to yourselves, that ye go not up into the mount, or touch the border of it: whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death: there shall not an hand touch it, but he shall surely be stoned, or shot through; whether it be beast or man, it shall not live: when the trumpet soundeth long, they shall come up to the mount.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭19:9-13‬ ‭

“And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled. And Moses brought forth the people out of the camp to meet with God; and they stood at the nether part of the mount. And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly. And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice. And the LORD said unto Moses, Go down, charge the people, lest they break through unto the LORD to gaze, and many of them perish. And the LORD said unto him, Away, get thee down, and thou shalt come up, thou, and Aaron with thee: but let not the priests and the people break through to come up unto the LORD, lest he break forth upon them. So Moses went down unto the people, and spake unto them.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭19:16-19, 21, 24-25‬ ‭

ado you see on this how if the people come near to God he’s going to destroy them as he says “ break forth upon them “? It’s because this is a time of his wrath against sin he’s keeping his distance so they all don’t be destroyed by his appearing he’s telling Moses keep them all far away and you come near and e. Go tell them what I said . And the reason is we’re in rebellion against him and this provoked his wrath and anger that’s what the dispostion of the law is your hearing God through this wrath against mankind’s sin , he’s hiding behind that smoke and tempest so no one ever really sees him Moses yes but none of the people actually see him but a vision of him eating with them sitting In His heavenly temple

as d the real issue with the law after the first ten commands is that they broke the first commandment before Moses even returned with them remember he got mad and broke them because they had made the calf ? God decides to utterly destroy them nd Moses talks him out of it interceding for the people

about them moses judges them causing them to grind up and eat the idol they made and commands the priests to slaughter 3000 people at random

the entire law then after that is God returning to heaven and leaving this angel in his stead as thier ruler because they worshipped the calf before they die that he was going with them but then

“Therefore now go, lead the people unto the place of which I have spoken unto thee: behold, mine Angel shall go before thee:

nevertheless in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭32:34‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God is even more angry now so he still leads then to Israel’s land but this is who th y are now dealing with it’s where the rest of the law is actually coming from god have then people over to his angel not as thier god but as a steward who has this authority now because they sinned already and broke the commandment

“Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭23:20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s what is being said by Stephen here that got him killed by the Jews including Paul before conversion

“This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us: saying unto Aaron, Make us gods to go before us: for as for this Moses, which brought us out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him. And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands. Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices By the space of forty years in the wilderness? Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, And the star of your god Remphan, Figures which ye made to worship them: And I will carry you away beyond Babylon. who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭7:38, 40-

any point is the veil is the dispostion of angels and judgements of Moses that veil the law and until we indersrsnd that’s not our law and word by which we can know Jesus and live we’re never going to see it the law doesn’t agree with the gospel god comes and says “come near and hear and live and close and live not stay far away or die you can’t be pardoned serve this angel who will not pardon you “

arhats not Jesus coming saying hear me believe and live it’s instead what Paul’s saying here too

I’m saying the mediation isn’t the same as the father son and Holy Ghost it’s a pattern and shadow

“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made;

and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, ( God angel Moses people ) but God is one.”( gospel )
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬


It’s a veil when you read Moses because that’s this word

“For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;

how shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, ( Jesus ) and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;( apostles ) God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?”( all the signs of the early church by the spirit )
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:2-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The law has to end before the fospel can begin in truth because they are two opposite reasons for existing st two times one when gods anger is wroth against sin and mankind’s sinfulness all together and the other comes when he declares” I will have mercy now come to me “
We want the fall near not the command to stay far away one way we see clear and hear right he other way we just don’t that’s what the veil terminology means

all this just my own cooky thinking though so if you don t agree it doesn’t mean your wrong or anything just an old fool talking

You actually say a lot of good things in that post, I dont agree wit hall tho.

I think only throgh His guidance, mercy and empowering by His Spirit can one walk in His ways

Thats why He says

Hebrews 10:16, “This is the covenant that I shall make with them after those days, says יהוה, giving My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I shall write them.”

Doing His will is not a bad thing

John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”

People twist Paul's writings are Peter warned of

2 Peter/Kepha 3:15-17, "and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Paul/Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him, as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures. You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless, but grow in the favor and knowledge of our Master and Savior יהושע Messiah. To Him be the esteem both now and to a day that abides. Awmiĕn.”

Faith and obedience are not at odds, they are in unity.

James 2:17, "So also belief, if it does not have works, is in itself dead."

James 2:22, "Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected?"

Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding (G5083) the Commands (G1785) of יהוה and the Belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”

The opening post stated the following.

Is this statement true?

2 Corinthians 3:7
But if the ministry of death, engraved in letters on stones, came with glory so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was.

There can be no doubt about what Paul stated.

"the ministry of death, engraved in letters on stones"

The law (the ten commandments) was the ministry of death.

Regardless of the interpretation used to understand the scripture.

The ten commandments are the ministry of death, that is what Paul wrote.

1 John 5:17, “All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not unto death.”

The “curse of the Law” is the death penalty for committing a sin worthy of death.

Deuteronomy 21:22-23, “And when a man has committed a sin worthy of death, then he shall be put to death and you shall hang him on a tree. Let his body not remain overnight on the tree, for you shall certainly bury him the same day – for he who is hanged is accursed of Yah – so that you do not defile the land which יהוה your Strength is giving you as an inheritance.”

The “curse of the Law” is not: “You shall have no other gods before Me, You shall make no idols, You shall not take the name of YHWH in vain, Keep the Sabbath day holy, Honor your father and your mother, You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor, You shall not covet.”

Yahshua/Jesus took that curse of the Law; the death penalty upon Himself for all those who abide in Him.

Galatians 3:13,, “Messiah redeemed us from the curse of the Torah (Deut 21:22), having become a curse for us – for it has been written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs upon a tree.”

Galatians 3:10-14, “10, For as many as are of works of Torah are under the curse, for it has been written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all that has been written in the Book of the Torah, to do them.” (Deut 27:26) 11, "And that no one is declared right by Torah before YHWH is clear, for “The righteous shall live by belief. (Hab 2:4)” 12, And the Torah is not of belief, but “The man who does them shall live by them, (Lev 18:5)” 13, Messiah redeemed us from the curse of the Torah, having become a curse for us – for it has been written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs upon a tree. (Deut 21:23) 14, in order that the blessing of Aḇraham might come upon the nations in Messiah יהושע, to receive the promise of the Spirit through belief.”

Isaiah 53:4-5, “Truly, He has borne our sicknesses and carried our pains. Yet we reckoned Him smitten·, stricken by YHWH, and afflicted. But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our crookedness. The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed.”

1 Peter 2:24, "who Himself bore our sins in His body on the timber, so that we, having died to sins, might live unto righteousness, by whose stripes you were healed.”

Any sin that is not covered by the blood of Jesus is a sin unto death.
When Paul speaks of the ministry of death concerning the law, he is focusing on the fact that the purpose of the law is to show sin to be sin. Since sin causes death, the law ministers death.

Galatians 3:13,, “Messiah redeemed us from the curse of the Torah (Deut 21:22), having become a curse for us – for it has been written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs upon a tree.”

the curse is the death penalty

1 John 5:1-3,Everyone who believes that יהושע is the Messiah has been born of Elohim, and everyone who loves the One bringing forth also loves the one having been born of Him.By this we know that we love the children of Elohim, when we love Elohim and guard His commands.For this is the love for Elohim, that we guard His commands,a and His commands are not heavy,"

I don't understand what point you are making.

I will explain

Galatians 3:13,, “Messiah redeemed us from the curse of the Torah (Deut 21:22), having become a curse for us – for it has been written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs upon a tree.”

When Paul says "for it has been written, " it means he is quoting Scripture, what is is quoting is Deut 21:22.That passage explains the penalty:

Deuteronomy 21:22-23, “And when a man has committed a sin worthy of death, then he shall be put to death and you shall hang him on a tree.

the curse Paul is talking about is the death penalty, that is why he says " for it has been written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs upon a tree.”"

Yahshua took this penalty upon Himself for those that "are in Him"

1 Peter 2:24, "who Himself bore our sins in His body on the timber, so that we, having died to sins, might live unto righteousness, by whose stripes you were healed.”

Peter says this and says we should "that we, having died to sins, might live unto righteousness"

While we are not perfect, we should do His will, doing His will is not a bad thing. The SPirit of the Father puts this conviction on the heart, to liove His ways Hebrews 10:16, "“This is the covenant that I shall make with them after those days, says יהוה, giving My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I shall write them.” We are also instructed in the word on what to do and how to love so we know the Spirit matches the written Word, that is why John says "everyone who loves the One bringing forth also loves the one having been born of Him.By this we know that we love the children of Elohim, when we love Elohim and guard His commands.:

1 John 5:1-3,Everyone who believes that יהושע is the Messiah has been born of Elohim, and everyone who loves the One bringing forth also loves the one having been born of Him.By this we know that we love the children of Elohim, when we love Elohim and guard His commands.For this is the love for Elohim, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy,"

If He says it is love, anyone who tells me it is not love is in error.

"For this is the love for Elohim, that we guard His commands,a and His commands are not heavy"

The curse is the death penalty, love is do not steal, do not lie, do not slander, do not hate your neighbor in your heart, etc.

I see. You believe Paul is only speaking about certain sins. I don't believe that's correct. I believe he is speaking of the law as a whole. But thanks for explaining.

Where did I say that? Is that you way of not addressing my reply, a real discussion would have you replying to the passages and the points I made, I see none of that

Can you quote where I said that? I dont recall saying "certian sins" in reply to you question in this post.

I took certain sins from those that get one hung on a tree. Sins unto death are those that call for the death penalty. A good example is adultery which called for stoning.

I don't believe this is what Paul is referring to.

And everyone doesn't want to have long, drawn out discussions. I like dealing with a single point with a scripture and an explanation. Everyone is different. I try to accommodate long responses as well as I can. But that's not my modus operandi. I've accommodated you. Perhaps you will accommodate me.

Ok we can go point by point

do you believe Paul is quoting that passage Deut 21:22 in Galatians 3:13 ?

Perhaps. I don't have the ability to search that out at the moment.

Well I dont know how we could proceed or how you can understand Paul if you dont understand what is is quoting.

For he said: " for it has been written" that, means he is quoting Scripture, the nest question would be what Scripture.

Galatians 3:13,, “Messiah redeemed us from the curse of the Torah (Deut 21:22), having become a curse for us – for it has been written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs upon a tree.”

So is the discussion over at the first question?

and honestly how could you be schooling me on what it means when you dont even know what its quote from,

to even understand Paul quoting and expounding you would have to understand the original text from he is speaking of. Maybe that is where the difference of opinion comes form?

Despite your condescending tone, I'm always willing to partake in a fruitful discussion. And I never see discussions as a schooling session. Because I'm not able to reconcile two verses due to current constraints doesn't mean I can't do it.
But it probably is best to end the discussion. Grace and peace.

Well, I didnt mean it to be condescending, I talk very openly, and honestly.

and I do feel 100% to understand that passage you have to know what he is quoting, you can either find you answer and reply when able, or say farwell thats ok too, or I can show you what he is quoting.

The "curse of the law" did not come with glory.

2 Corinthians 3:7
But if the ministry of death, engraved in letters on stones, came with glory so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was.

Once again, the ministry of death is the ten commandments and they came with glory.

The curse of the law did not arrive with glory!

What a way to twist, to call “You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor, You shall not covet.” a curse.

Paul explains the curse clearly

Galatians 3:13,, “Messiah redeemed us from the curse of the Torah (Deut 21:22), having become a curse for us – for it has been written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs upon a tree.”

Maybe you should read Peters warning about Paul, you see Paul is the only one warned of

2 Peter/Kepha 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."

For Yahshua/Jesus says it is love, therefore By this we know that we love

John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”

1 John 5:2-3, “By this we know that we love the children of Elohim, when we love Elohim and guard His commands. For this is the love for Elohim, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy.”

2 John 1:6, “And this is the love, that we walk according to His commands. This is the command, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.”

By this we know that we love

I still say the "ministry of death" is the entirety of the OC... the ten commandments were not the only thing engraved on stones.

And there in the presence of the Israelites, Joshua inscribed on the stones a copy of the law of Moses, which he had written. 33All Israel, foreigners and citizens alike, with their elders, officers, and judges, stood on both sides of the ark of the covenant of the LORD facing the Levitical priests who carried it. Half of the people stood in front of Mount Gerizim and half of them in front of Mount Ebal, as Moses the servant of the LORD had commanded earlier, to bless the people of Israel.
Afterward, Joshua read aloud all the words of the law—the blessings and the curses—according to all that is written in the Book of the Law. was not a word of all that Moses had commanded that Joshua failed to read before the whole assembly of Israel, including the women, the little ones, and the foreigners who lived among them.

Wheras the Ten Commandments were engraved on "tablets of stone"; the Ten Commandments were a representation of the whole; as the Lord said- “Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.”