Paul saw the ten commandments as part of the "ministry of death."

COP OUT STATEMENT

says the person who replies to honest Scripture discussion with pictures that have zero to do with the Word.

im still waiting on an honest reply to my post

A lot of that issue is translation/interpretation.

Where I have bolded the text is where it all goes off the deep end.

The word "disposition" in english (which has multiple meanings)- the way you are trying to read it... that's not there in the Greek.

The idea that God's angels totally botched his law; or that Moses just botched his law... and God was totally cool with it, and did nothing about it... is nuts.

Moses smacked a rock with a stick at the wrong time... and that was the end for Moses... because in his capacity as mediator- he misrepresented God in that moment. But you're trying to say that he (AND the angels) we really just screwing it up the whole time. That's crazy.

You said the following.

"First, Gentiles were ALWAYS allowed to join to YHWH and when they did they were under the same Law as a native born Hebrew born in Israel.

Numbers 15:15-16, “One law is for you of the assembly and for the stranger who sojourns with you – a law forever throughout your generations. As you are, so is the stranger before יהוה. One Torah and one right-ruling is for you and for the stranger who sojourns with you.”

The "stranger" here is the non-Hebrew, the Gentile. Yet we see well before Yahshua was born, Gentiles being as a native born."

When you read Numbers 15:15-16 properly you will notice this.

the stranger who sojourns with you

The stranger who resides with you.

Not a stranger who does not live with you. The stranger who SOJOURNS with you.

Gentiles were never included in the Old Covenant or any covenant for that matter.

Ephesians 2:12
Remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the people of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

We know that the Gentiles were never under the law. Gentiles as a whole were not a covenant people.

Please read the scripture carefully, "sojourns with you"!

Wrong commandment you have quoted. The law says, "love your neighbor as yourself", and nothing about loving your enemies.

Whereas, the new commandment is a very different commandment.

John 13:34
I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, that you also love one another.

Are you saying that we were not given a new commandment by Jesus?

Are you also saying that the love that Jesus had for us, was not an unconditional love?

You reacted to my comment below.

You are living with a carnal nature as is everyone else.

Galatians 5:19-21
Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

You are at war with the desires, lusts, passions, of your own flesh, and that's every day.

We crucified our own creator and your going to tell me, that your not a wicked sinner?

At some stage in your life, you must accept that you are only righteous because Jesus is righteous.

We can do nothing to generate any righteousness of our own.

That is why I will always see you as a wicked sinner, escaping through the flames of God's judgement.

Doesn't matter how God played the Gentiles and Jews, to Serve the Same God, the Jews did, you will also be OBEYING the SAME God's Commandments!


Who is Your God, Jesus, who said Obey the TWO Commandments, which is the Ten, or Paul, who You don't understand at all?

Here is an extract.

Inquisitor said: Do you really want to step into the firing line?

Then you replied.

"you sound like a accuser that likes to threaten people. Don't you worry, all will be held accountable by the perfect Judge."

I am Inquisitor!

You NEED to learn to READ!

You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy. ' But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven.


And WHO or WHERE did I quote the LAW, for you think, I was referring to the LAW, outside of your Own imagination?

I stand by what I said, just as Numbers 15 says one Law for the native and those who travel with Israel

and even more descriptiv in Exodus 12, the vese you ignored, the gentile who keeps the passover...
"and will keep the Passover to יהוה, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it"
One law shall be to him that is nativeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourns among you

Exodus 12:47-49, “All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the Passover to יהוה, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. One law shall be to him that is nativeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourns among you.”

As for the other part of your post

you posted this: Ephesians 2:12 , Remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the people of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

The Pharisees did make their own laws, making those grafted in as 2nd class, Pharisee laws are falsehood and not true Law of YHWH.

Philippians 3:5
circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee;"

and yes and Gentile that did not know anything about YHWH, the Passover pre-Yahshua or Yahshua post sacrifice would indeed be a stranger... Thus "excluded from the people of Israel, and strangers to the covenants "

If Gentiles were never allowed before Yhashua then this verse I posted would be a lie

Exodus 12:47-49, “All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the Passover to יהוה, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. One law shall be to him that is nativeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourns among you.”

You cant form the word to fit your doctrine, you have to read the word and let the Word form you doctrine.

Here is an even clearer passage...

Isaiah 56:1-7, “Thus said יהוה, “Guard right-ruling, and do righteousness, for near is My deliverance to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who becomes strong in it, guarding the Sabbath lest he profane it, and guarding his hand from doing any evil. And let not the son of the gentile who has joined himself to יהוה speak, saying, ‘יהוה has certainly separated me from His people,’ nor let the eunuch say, ‘Look I am a dry tree.’ For thus said יהוה, “To the eunuchs who guard My Sabbaths, and have chosen what pleases Me, and are holding onto My covenant: to them I shall give in My house and within My walls a place and a name better than that of sons and daughters – I give them an everlasting name that is not cut off. Also the sons of the gentile who join themselves to יהוה, to serve Him, and to love the Name of יהוה, to be His servants, all who guard the Sabbath, and not profane it, and are holding onto My covenant, them I shall bring to My set-apart mountain, and let them rejoice in My house of prayer. Their ascending offerings and their sacrifices are accepted on My altar, for My house is called a house of prayer for all the peoples.”

again let the Scripture form your doctrine, and study all of it.

Don't half quote from the scripture, that's a dangerous thing to do.

Here is the fuller quotation below.

1 John 5:16
If anyone sees his brother or sister committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will, for him, give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death; I am not saying that he should ask about that.

The verse states, there is sin leading to death!

That is singular, so what is the sin leading to death?

Actually, I do not need to explain anything. The OP claimed that Paul saw the Ten Commandments as the ministry of death, and I pointed out that Paul quoted one of those commandments to the saints at Ephesus in order that they might receive a promise, so the OP is the one who has some explaining to do.
He is referring to the Ten Commandments, but what he meant by the ministry of death is the real question.
Oh, please. Do not lie to yourself. It is quite obvious what Paul said and why he said it.
There is absolutely nothing unclear about it. Paul directly quoted one of the Ten Commandments as doctrine to new testament Christians. so do not kid yourself into believing otherwise.

Wrong post I was referring to there. Sorry about that.

Now I have to copy and paste on the correct post.

All need mercy, and all are under trial, yet all of or faith and actions are not the same, you have no clue about my past, current and future faith and works.

I dont have to accept you view.

My mind and heart is to seek Yah, His truth and His path.

1 Samuel 12:24, “Only fear יהוה, and you shall serve Him in truth with all your heart, for consider what marvels He has done for you.”

1 John 4:19, “We love Him because He first loved us.”

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”

John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”

Revelation 14:12-13, "Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of Elohim and the belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, “Write, ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on.’ ” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “in order that they rest from their labours, and their works follow with them.”

I take all these into serious consideration in my walk. Accepting YHWH is day one, some of us are on yer 30 or 40 and seek to do His will. The fact that people would speak against a mature walk is odd to say the least.

So I could say the same to you, for not posting more verses but that is nitpicking....

The sins unto death are the ones that have a death penalty, rejecting YHWH, worshipping anything but YHWH, murder, adultery, doing pagan rituals, etc. Some sins have a lesser penalty, such as stealing, one would have to either repay the debt or work it off. It is safe to say all humans have committed sin unto death and need mercy, however once one is in the Spirit of YHWH, they will not be a slave to sin.

No matter if I am the best person or the worst person, these passages remain true:

John 14:16-17, “And I shall ask the Father, and He shall give you another Helper, to stay with you forever the Spirit of the Truth, whom the world is unable to receive, because it does not see Him or know Him. But you know Him, for He stays with you and shall be in you.”

Acts 5:32 “And we are His witnesses to these matters, and so also is the Set-apart Spirit whom the Might One has given to those who obey Him.”

1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”

Your argument collapses because you omitted the following.

"that sojourns among you"

The law was given to the nation of Israel and to no other nation.

Ephesians 2:12
Remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the people of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

That's Paul's argument not mine. You have a problem with what Paul wrote.

You said it yourself.

Gentiles were strangers to the covenants!

SpeakTruth101 said:
Please dont edit out my reply, ignore what I said then "discredit" me... You are adding to what I said, when you alter my statement it is dishonest discussion. I never said "sacrificial laws to cover sin" I assume you mean the blood of animals. I mentioned Yahshua's priesthood.However I will prove my view, as if I alrready didn;t in the verses I posted and you ignored, not even mentioning them...

First, Gentiles were ALWAYS allowed to join to YHWH and when they did they were under the same Law as a native born Hebrew born in Israel.

Numbers 15:15-16, “One law is for you of the assembly and for the stranger who sojourns with you – a law forever throughout your generations. As you are, so is the stranger before יהוה. One Torah and one right-ruling is for you and for the stranger who sojourns with you.”

The "stranger" here is the non-Hebrew, the Gentile. Yet we see well before Yahshua was born, Gentiles being as a native born.

Exodus 12:47-49, “All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the Passover to יהוה, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. One law shall be to him that is nativeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourns among you.”

"he shall be as one that is born in the land" It does not say 2nd class, it says the same. However the Pharisees did make their own laws, making those grafted in as 2nd class, Pharisee laws are falsehood and not true Law of YHWH.

Exodus 12:37-40, “And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot that were men, beside children. 38, And a *mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle. 39, And they baked unleavened cakes of the dough which they brought forth out of Egypt, for it was not leavened; because they were thrust out of Egypt, and could not tarry, neither had they prepared for themselves any victual. 40, Now the sojourning of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt, was four hundred and thirty years.”

The words “*mixed multitude” are words: #H6154 - עֶרֶב עֵרֶב - ‛êreb ‛ereb, ay'-reb, eh'-reb, The second form used in 1 Kings 10:15 with the article prefixed); from H6148; the web (or transverse threads of cloth); also a mixture, (or mongrel race):—Arabia, mingled people, mixed (multitude)

So here we see even during the Exodus Gentiles were as a native

Even Paul agrees:
Galatians 3:28-29, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise."

And it has been this way since the beginning, as I showed in Exodus and Numbers.

Galatians 3:28-29, "...Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise."

Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is YHWH our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."

I have more, but I don't want to make a single post too long, so I ask that you actually discuss what I posted rather than idsmiss it without even breaking it down...

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”

This is the Covenant of Yahshua

Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the Commands of יהוה and the Belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”


All I see here is just reams and reams of Scripture ---not one says the Gentiles were ever under God's laws ---

So your



But again



And this you say here is a lie ----

Please dont edit out my reply, ignore what I said then "discredit" me... You are adding to what I said, when you alter my statement it is dishonest discussion.

Get this ------I never quoted any of your post to edit or added anything to your words -----this is my post and my words ----

This post here is my post --my words -----and what I said to you ----I quoted nothing from your post ----so now you owe me an apology for saying I edited your post and tried to discredit you ---I did no such thing

@SpeakTruth101 -----

I think you need to understand that the Law of Moses was directed at the Jewish nation only ----the Gentiles were never under the law -----so if your born a Jew ---and if you have not received Jesus as your Lord and Saviour they are still under the 613 laws that God put in place for them --which they cannot keep --so they remain -under the Ministry of Death --

There is no Faith needed in Keeping the 10 Commandments -----so it matters not if you try and keep them your not in the Right faith ----and you cannot keep them because if you even think in your mind about murder or adultery or lying you have just broke all 613 laws ----Jesus says if you think about lying with a married women then you have committed the sin ------

The Gentiles were Grafted into the Salvation program to try to knock sense into the Jewish nation ----they are not obligated to keep the Mosaic Laws ----as they were never meant for them ------the Gentiles come under the 3 New Laws -----so if any Jew has received Jesus in their heart ------then these 3 laws apply to them -----

The Love of Love -----is written on the heart ---love God with all your heart --soul ---mind and strength

The law of Faith ----No one can please God with His Faith -----

Romans 3:27
Boasting Excluded
27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law?[a] By one of works? No, on the contrary, by a law[b] of faith

The Law of Liberty ----

James 1:25

Amplified Bible

25 But he who looks carefully into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and faithfully abides by it, not having become a [careless] listener who forgets but [a]an active doer [who obeys], he will be blessed and favored by God in what he does [in his life of obedience]

I say
God gave the 10 Commandments and they are perfect ---but even when we are born Again we still reside in the Flesh which is still weak ----We do have a resource to call on when we feel that weakness to fall into sin which is Grace but how many people use that resource in their weakness is the Question ----Satan is still on the loose and we born again Christians are still bombarded with Satan's attacks ---and anyone who just thinks they can keep the 10 Commandments because they are written on our hearts are deceiving themselves -----

Many of God's Chosen will Parrish in Hell because they have rejected Jesus not because they tried to keep the God's Laws ----which they can't keep anyway -----but God has a plan to save the 12 tribes of Israel in the last days so many Jews will be saved in the end ------

Also your taking one line of Scripture and trying to make it fit what you believe and you need to know the context from which your piece of scripture is taken ----the Old Testament was for the Jewish nation only ----and that has to be kept in mind ------all people were included only after Jesus died and the Holy Spirit was introduced ----

Different laws applied under the New Covenant ----

The law of Love will make you want to obey all God commands but Satan has other ideas and is very crafty to get a Carnal Christian to fall in their attempt to keep what God commands ---and Jesus knows how hard it is for us to stay on the straight road ------Maturing in your faith walk with Christ is the way to keep from falling into sin ----

Still boasting about your own goodness and obedience.

How about you spend a day or two and boast in the Lord.

I don't know you?

Oh yes, I do.

God flooded the world except eight that he chose. Did those eight deserve God's wrath, you bet they did.

God restrained Himself from destroying both Abraham and Moses. Yet, your different. I don't think so.

I think you can be saved by grace and no other way.

you are being very dishonest, I posted it multiple times, you are ignoring "a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the Passover to יהוה, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land"

Also I neer said it was given to another nation, I said gentiles could enter in and be as a native born, IF they performed the Passover, and they would have the same Law is native born.

Easy to "discredit" me when you omit parts of what I say and claim I said things I did not.

COrrect they were strangers, if they lived in another land that was pagan, and that was the only accepted religion, but once they

Exodus 12:47-49, “All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the Passover to יהוה, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. One law shall be to him that is nativeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourns among you.”

they were as a native born....

The reason I do not include your entire post is because the reply would be volumes. Big posts are to be avoided at all times.

Matthew 12:31-32
“Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

Does it say every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven?

The singular unforgiven sin is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit!