James 2:19-20, “You believe that Yah is one. You do well. The demons also believe – and shudder! But do you wish to know, O empty man, that the belief without the works is dead?”
Paul saw the ten commandments as part of the "ministry of death."
- Thread starter ResidentAlien
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
People say, Jesus only had TWO Commandments of the 10 original.
Let's examine here:
the Second Commandment, is to LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR as YOURSELF.
Why does this Commandment, now, carry the other 8 with it?
Isn't it YOUR NEIGHBOR, who you would KILL, STEAL FROM, Covet, LIE about, Bare False Witness, Commit Adultery with?
See, the TEN COMMANDMENTS, ARE VERY MUCH ALIVE AND IN EFFECT THIS MOMENT AND UNTIL JUDGEMENT DAY!
Let's examine here:
the Second Commandment, is to LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR as YOURSELF.
Why does this Commandment, now, carry the other 8 with it?
Isn't it YOUR NEIGHBOR, who you would KILL, STEAL FROM, Covet, LIE about, Bare False Witness, Commit Adultery with?
See, the TEN COMMANDMENTS, ARE VERY MUCH ALIVE AND IN EFFECT THIS MOMENT AND UNTIL JUDGEMENT DAY!
Can;t love our neighbor as ourself if we dont obey these (just a few examples)
Lev 19
13, "‘Do not oppress your neighbor or rob him. The wages of him who is hired is not to remain with you all night until morning."
14, "‘Do not curse the deaf or put a stumbling-block before the blind, but fear your Mighty One. I am יהוה."
15, "‘Do no unrighteousness in right-ruling. Do not be partial to the poor or favor the face of the great, but rightly judge your neighbor in righteousness."
Jeremiah 6:16-17, “Thus said יהוה, “Stand in the ways and see, and ask for the old paths, where the good way is, and walk in it; and find rest for yourselves.” But they said, ‘We do not walk in it.’ “And I raised up watchmen over you, and said, ‘Listen to a voice of the trumpet!’ But they said, ‘We do not listen.”
Dont get cought in with those who will not listen, but rather be with those whofind the old paths and walk in it...
Dont get cought in with those who will not listen, but rather be with those whofind the old paths and walk in it...
You KNOW what is NOT LOVING YOUR NEIGHBOR is?
Whenever you adhere to a DOCTRINE that says, God, Predestined People to Hell.
When you walk around, under this Doctrine, you look at People like God has already chose their place.
You have now just SINNED against Your Neighbor.
Calvinism, is ALL about NOT LOVING YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF!
^
That is why there's such a push against the LAW in this Thread!
People, are used to judging people based upon God predestined them and have completely VOIDED out LOVING YOUR NEIGHBOR as YOURSELF!
Look at the many threads here at CC.
ALL about NOT LOVING YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF!
Even the Chosen Series Thread was ALL ABOUT not LOVING our NEIGHBOR as OURSELVES.
Whenever you adhere to a DOCTRINE that says, God, Predestined People to Hell.
When you walk around, under this Doctrine, you look at People like God has already chose their place.
You have now just SINNED against Your Neighbor.
Calvinism, is ALL about NOT LOVING YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF!
^
That is why there's such a push against the LAW in this Thread!
People, are used to judging people based upon God predestined them and have completely VOIDED out LOVING YOUR NEIGHBOR as YOURSELF!
Look at the many threads here at CC.
ALL about NOT LOVING YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF!
Even the Chosen Series Thread was ALL ABOUT not LOVING our NEIGHBOR as OURSELVES.
I think the "predestined" thing is a misunderstanding of
Isaiah 46:10, “Declaring the end from the beginning, and from of old that which has not yet been done, saying, ‘My counsel does stand, and all My delight I do.”
Just because He knows what will happen does not mean He forces.
The human mind has a hard time understanding a being the exists outside of time, the is omnipresent amd knows all.
While I do believe the predistined thing is wrong, I think it is a faulty attempt at understanding these things.
You make this claim------- now give the scripture that says the Gentiles are under the 10 Commandments or any of the other commandments that God gave ---the sacrificial laws to cover sin --the Moral laws ---the 10 commandments and the Judicial laws for disobedience -------
I await your reply
They knew right from wrong but there were not under the laws
The gentiles had a conscience but were never under God's laws ----they knew right from wrong but God never judged their disobedience as they always in disobedience to God -----it is like the unbelievers today ----they are living rightly as they are in the world --they have a conscience and feel guilty when they do wrong and reap the consequences of the wrong they do ---the Gentiles were living without God but God did no impute sin on them ------as He did the israelites as they were not under the laws -----there is no sin where there is no law ----They were living under their own worldly laws ----This is what unbelievers today are under as -well ----they live as the world lives ------and God allows them to do that they feel guilt because they know they have done wrong ------
Please dont edit out my reply, ignore what I said then "discredit" me... You are adding to what I said, when you alter my statement it is dishonest discussion. I never said "sacrificial laws to cover sin" I assume you mean the blood of animals. I mentioned Yahshua's priesthood.However I will prove my view, as if I alrready didn;t in the verses I posted and you ignored, not even mentioning them...
First, Gentiles were ALWAYS allowed to join to YHWH and when they did they were under the same Law as a native born Hebrew born in Israel.
Numbers 15:15-16, “One law is for you of the assembly and for the stranger who sojourns with you – a law forever throughout your generations. As you are, so is the stranger before יהוה. One Torah and one right-ruling is for you and for the stranger who sojourns with you.”
The "stranger" here is the non-Hebrew, the Gentile. Yet we see well before Yahshua was born, Gentiles being as a native born.
Exodus 12:47-49, “All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the Passover to יהוה, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. One law shall be to him that is nativeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourns among you.”
"he shall be as one that is born in the land" It does not say 2nd class, it says the same. However the Pharisees did make their own laws, making those grafted in as 2nd class, Pharisee laws are falsehood and not true Law of YHWH.
Exodus 12:37-40, “And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot that were men, beside children. 38, And a *mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle. 39, And they baked unleavened cakes of the dough which they brought forth out of Egypt, for it was not leavened; because they were thrust out of Egypt, and could not tarry, neither had they prepared for themselves any victual. 40, Now the sojourning of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt, was four hundred and thirty years.”
The words “*mixed multitude” are words: #H6154 - עֶרֶב עֵרֶב - ‛êreb ‛ereb, ay'-reb, eh'-reb, The second form used in 1 Kings 10:15 with the article prefixed); from H6148; the web (or transverse threads of cloth); also a mixture, (or mongrel race):—Arabia, mingled people, mixed (multitude)
So here we see even during the Exodus Gentiles were as a native
Even Paul agrees:
Galatians 3:28-29, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise."
And it has been this way since the beginning, as I showed in Exodus and Numbers.
Galatians 3:28-29, "...Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise."
Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is YHWH our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."
I have more, but I don't want to make a single post too long, so I ask that you actually discuss what I posted rather than idsmiss it without even breaking it down...
Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”
This is the Covenant of Yahshua
Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the Commands of יהוה and the Belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”
That is a false statement ------the Gentiles were never God's Chosen Nation ---until Jesus came -----not one scripture you quote is saying the Gentiles were under the law
that merely explains what the Gentiles are Under the Law of Nature.
The Gentiles, who belong to God, have the SAME SIN LAWS as the Jews.
You should delve deeper into Verse 14.
the Jews are coming to Christ, are coming from the Side of the LAW.
the Gentiles are coming to Christ, are coming from the Side of Natural, not godly LAW.
it just explains we both come from a LAW.
the Jews from LAW of Moses.
the Gentiles from the LAW of SATAN.
Paul, clearly, does not want the Gentiles coming to Jesus to keep their SATAN LAWS.
That is a false statement ------the Gentiles were never God's Chosen Nation ---until Jesus came -----not one scripture you quote is saying the Gentiles were under the law
View attachment 254943
you are very funny, your silly picture does absolutely nothing to disprove the Scriptures and view I posted and does absolutely nothing to prove your view with out discussion of said Scriptures.
You realize you are in the Bible Discussion Forum?
You need to explain the OP. What is Paul referring to here "But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones"?
Whether or not Paul is instructing the Ephesians to obey the law, is impossible to know. I don't believe so, obeying your parents is a fundamental truth anyway. You cannot establish a doctrine on a verse that is unclear in the text.
Even looking at a woman with lust is adultery.
Coveting what others have, kills me every day.
Thought crimes have killed us all.
You have no where to go. You are a sinner and a wicked one at that.
What makes someone think that you can obey the ten commandments?
Surely, you realize that your sinning never ceases.
The law condemns, do you understand what that means?
If you are under the law, then you are judged according to the law.
Do you really want to step into the firing line?
Proverbs 25:8, “Do not hastily bring into court, for what will you do in the end, when your neighbor puts you to shame?”
John 5:21-30,21 “For as the Father raises the dead and makes alive, even so the Son makes alive whom He wishes."22 “For the Father judges no one, but has given all the judgment to the Son,"23 that all should value the Son even as they value the Father. He who does not value the Son does not value the Father who sent Him."24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me possesses everlasting life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of Elohim. And those having heard shall live."26 “For as the Father possesses life in Himself, so He gave also to the Son to possess life in Himself,"27 and He has given Him authority also to do judgment, because He is the Son of Aḏam."28 “Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the tombs shall hear His voice,"29 and shall come forth – those who have practiced righteousness, to the resurrection of life, and those who have practised evil matters, to a resurrection of judgment."30 “Of Myself I am unable to do any matter. As I hear, I judge, and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own desire, but the desire of the Father who sent Me."
"has given all the judgment to the Son,"
Im a wicked sinner you say? You don't even know me. YHWH can change the heart.
Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them."
1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we are misleading ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is trustworthy and righteous to forgive us the sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us.
Luke 1:5-6, "There was in the days of Herodes, the sovereign of Yehuḏah, a certain priest named Zeḵaryah, of the division of Aḇiyah. And his wife was of the daughters of Aharon, and her name was Elisheḇa. And they were both righteous before Elohim, blamelessly walking in all the commands and righteousnesses of יהוה. "
You discount or ignore mercy, and being in a right standing with YHWH. Or simply lack understanding of truth. One empowered by YHWH can, while im surely not as good Zecharyah, Im not living a life enslaved to sin. Set free from sin, not set free from righteousness.
sin brings death, a sin is breaking the Law, you can make the Law bad, it is not, sin is bad.
James 1:12-18, “Blessed is the man who does endure trial, for when he has been proved, he shall receive the crown of life which the Master has promised to those who love Him. Let no one say when he is enticed, “I am enticed by Yah,” for Yah is not enticed by evil matters, and He entices no one. But each one is enticed when he is drawn away by his own desires and trapped. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin. And sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death. Do not go astray, my beloved brothers. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of light, with whom there is no change, nor shadow of turning. Having purposed it, He brought us forth by the Word of truth, for us to be a kind of first-fruits of His creatures.”
John/Yahanan 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."
Romans 2:12
All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.
Matt 13:41-43, "The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear."
John 14:23-24, "יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”
you sound like a accuser that likes to threaten people. Don't you worry, all will be held accountable by the perfect Judge.
Revelation 14:12-13, "Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of Elohim and the belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, “Write, ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on.’ ” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “in order that they rest from their labours, and their works follow with them.”
John 5:21-30,21 “For as the Father raises the dead and makes alive, even so the Son makes alive whom He wishes."22 “For the Father judges no one, but has given all the judgment to the Son,"23 that all should value the Son even as they value the Father. He who does not value the Son does not value the Father who sent Him."24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me possesses everlasting life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of Elohim. And those having heard shall live."26 “For as the Father possesses life in Himself, so He gave also to the Son to possess life in Himself,"27 and He has given Him authority also to do judgment, because He is the Son of Aḏam."28 “Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the tombs shall hear His voice,"29 and shall come forth – those who have practiced righteousness, to the resurrection of life, and those who have practised evil matters, to a resurrection of judgment."30 “Of Myself I am unable to do any matter. As I hear, I judge, and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own desire, but the desire of the Father who sent Me."
"has given all the judgment to the Son,"
Im a wicked sinner you say? You don't even know me. YHWH can change the heart.
Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them."
1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we are misleading ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is trustworthy and righteous to forgive us the sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us.
Luke 1:5-6, "There was in the days of Herodes, the sovereign of Yehuḏah, a certain priest named Zeḵaryah, of the division of Aḇiyah. And his wife was of the daughters of Aharon, and her name was Elisheḇa. And they were both righteous before Elohim, blamelessly walking in all the commands and righteousnesses of יהוה. "
You discount or ignore mercy, and being in a right standing with YHWH. Or simply lack understanding of truth. One empowered by YHWH can, while im surely not as good Zecharyah, Im not living a life enslaved to sin. Set free from sin, not set free from righteousness.
sin brings death, a sin is breaking the Law, you can make the Law bad, it is not, sin is bad.
James 1:12-18, “Blessed is the man who does endure trial, for when he has been proved, he shall receive the crown of life which the Master has promised to those who love Him. Let no one say when he is enticed, “I am enticed by Yah,” for Yah is not enticed by evil matters, and He entices no one. But each one is enticed when he is drawn away by his own desires and trapped. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin. And sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death. Do not go astray, my beloved brothers. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of light, with whom there is no change, nor shadow of turning. Having purposed it, He brought us forth by the Word of truth, for us to be a kind of first-fruits of His creatures.”
John/Yahanan 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."
Romans 2:12
All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.
Matt 13:41-43, "The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear."
John 14:23-24, "יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”
you sound like a accuser that likes to threaten people. Don't you worry, all will be held accountable by the perfect Judge.
Revelation 14:12-13, "Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of Elohim and the belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, “Write, ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on.’ ” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “in order that they rest from their labours, and their works follow with them.”
1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we are misleading ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is trustworthy and righteous to forgive us the sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us.
1 John/Yahanan 2:6, "He who says he abides in Him, is himself also obligated to walk as He walked."
1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”
Being in Him we can do His will;
John/Yahanan 15:5-16, "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and letting My words; abide in you, you will ask what you will, and it will be done for you. In this is My Father glorified: when you produce much fruit; and in this way you become My disciples. Just as the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you; continue in My love. If you keep My Commands, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's Commands, and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you, that My joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be complete. This is My Command: Love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: that one would lay down his life on behalf of his brothers. You are My brothers, if you do whatever I command you."
This is why it is written;
1 Peter/Kepha 1:13-21, "Therefore, gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the undeserved pardon that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Yahshua Messiah. As obedient children, do not conform to the former lusts you had when you lived in ignorance; But as He Who called you is holy, so you also become holy in all your conduct; Because it is written Be holy, for I am holy. And if you call on the Father, Who, without respect of persons judges according to each man's work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your sojourning here in reverence; Knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, such as silver or gold, from your idolatrous way of life handed down to you by tradition from your forefathers; But with the precious blood of Messiah, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot; Who truly was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you; Who through Him we do believe in YHWH, Who raised Him up from the dead, and gave Him glory; that your faith and hope might be in YHWH."
Revelation 21:7, "“The one who overcomes shall inherit all this, and I shall be his Father and he shall be My son."
1 John/Yahanan 2:6, "He who says he abides in Him, is himself also obligated to walk as He walked."
1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”
Being in Him we can do His will;
John/Yahanan 15:5-16, "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and letting My words; abide in you, you will ask what you will, and it will be done for you. In this is My Father glorified: when you produce much fruit; and in this way you become My disciples. Just as the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you; continue in My love. If you keep My Commands, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's Commands, and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you, that My joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be complete. This is My Command: Love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: that one would lay down his life on behalf of his brothers. You are My brothers, if you do whatever I command you."
This is why it is written;
1 Peter/Kepha 1:13-21, "Therefore, gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the undeserved pardon that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Yahshua Messiah. As obedient children, do not conform to the former lusts you had when you lived in ignorance; But as He Who called you is holy, so you also become holy in all your conduct; Because it is written Be holy, for I am holy. And if you call on the Father, Who, without respect of persons judges according to each man's work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your sojourning here in reverence; Knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, such as silver or gold, from your idolatrous way of life handed down to you by tradition from your forefathers; But with the precious blood of Messiah, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot; Who truly was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you; Who through Him we do believe in YHWH, Who raised Him up from the dead, and gave Him glory; that your faith and hope might be in YHWH."
Revelation 21:7, "“The one who overcomes shall inherit all this, and I shall be his Father and he shall be My son."
1 John 5:17, "All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not unto death."
Different sins have different penalties, some it is death, others it is not. Yet all have sinned and NEED mercy to be in right standing with YHWH.
The gentiles were grafted in by God to make the Jews jealous and to wake them up to drop the law and enter into the new Covenant -----So we should all be grateful to the Jews for us being grafted into the Salvation covenant -----
The Gentiles were hell bound ----they had no recourse until Jesus came into the picture -----
Romans 11 NIV
Ingrafted Branches
11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious.
12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!
13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry
14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them.
15 For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
16 If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.