How do you reconcile the first Commandment with the trinity?
- Thread starter RestlessWanderer
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
BINGO!!!! "Denominational Theologians", however, earn their living by making up theories about unimportant stuff like this.
The Bible is DEFINITE that there"s ONE GOD - PERIOD, and Jesus refers to "Father" "Son" and "Holy Spirit", but doesn't provide any "scientific explanations" so your observation is absolutely accurate. I don't need to understand either.
The Bible is DEFINITE that there"s ONE GOD - PERIOD, and Jesus refers to "Father" "Son" and "Holy Spirit", but doesn't provide any "scientific explanations" so your observation is absolutely accurate. I don't need to understand either.
-
1
- Show all
My earthly father had a Christian name. I dared not call him that as I grew up in a time when children were disciplined and showed respect to parents. Just because I did not call him "Charles", his name, made no difference to my relationship with him. No one outside of the family called him "dad" because that would have been weird. That God has no "Christian" name, so to speak, is irrelevant. Even in my 50's, before dad passed away, he was still "dad". We still call God "our Father" if we are born again. That's because He is our father.
This whole conversation is overblown. Jesus is God in the flesh, God the Father is Spirit, God the Holy Spirit is Christ in a form that we can receive. Jesus explained it perfectly: "I and the Father are one". "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father". Christ is the visible image of the visible God. And so on.
I don't understand it. Who can "understand" God? I accept without understanding.
I don't understand it. Who can "understand" God? I accept without understanding.
-
1
- Show all
The first verse of the Shema, a Hebrew prayer is "Hear oh Israel, the Lord is our G-d, the Lord is one." The prayer comes from two book of the Hebrew Bible, Deuteronomy 6:4–9, Deuteronomy 11:13–21 and Numbers 15:37–41. In the New Covenant there is just more of Yahweh to love. This is a guess, perhaps it is in the wording, what about one G-d in three persons? Blessings
-
1
- Show all
Still not in the Bible. Can you type back to me that there is no verse that describes God as a person?
I see no uniqueness. All the Bible teaches is One Supreme Being.
Romans 8:9 KJV
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Matthew 10:20
For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
This is why trinitarians use the word "persons." Their false doctrine is pure polytheism being that Jesus is not the Father.
I see no uniqueness. All the Bible teaches is One Supreme Being.
Romans 8:9 KJV
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Matthew 10:20
For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
This is why trinitarians use the word "persons." Their false doctrine is pure polytheism being that Jesus is not the Father.
I am merely pointing out that from Genesis to Revelation, the Father dealt with His Creation in the form of the WORD made flesh. We see this as Angel of the Lord, or as when God proclaims and gives us a Name like Elohim, I AM TO BE, LORD, YHWH, MOST HIGH GOD, Yahweh, Angel Who wrestled with Jacob, with Joshua, Fourth Man in the Furnace, then as Jesus.
It's just unique that the Father does things through the WORD. Everything the Father does as God in person is Always done through the WORD. Then we read the Father is Dwelling inside the WORD doing the Will of the Father. It's really hard when you can see the Symmetry here that when the Father wants to DO something and then DOES it through the WORD.
It's like God said, this is the Plan.
I want to be with my Creation but I cannot be in their presence or they will DIE.
So, I will do it through the WORD made flesh.
because, that is how it has always been done.
So, the question then, is this TWO people doing the One's Will as a TEAM, or what?
Or, just how the Father is able to deal with His Creation by doing His Will as the WORD made flesh?
I have my own belief and ultimately know that however God's Works, He does it in 3 Unique ways. That makes Him Triune, whether it is persons or not.
It's just unique that the Father does things through the WORD. Everything the Father does as God in person is Always done through the WORD. Then we read the Father is Dwelling inside the WORD doing the Will of the Father. It's really hard when you can see the Symmetry here that when the Father wants to DO something and then DOES it through the WORD.
It's like God said, this is the Plan.
I want to be with my Creation but I cannot be in their presence or they will DIE.
So, I will do it through the WORD made flesh.
because, that is how it has always been done.
So, the question then, is this TWO people doing the One's Will as a TEAM, or what?
Or, just how the Father is able to deal with His Creation by doing His Will as the WORD made flesh?
I have my own belief and ultimately know that however God's Works, He does it in 3 Unique ways. That makes Him Triune, whether it is persons or not.
I know Yahshua speaks truth
John 5:43, “I have come in My Father's Name, but you do not follow Me. Let another come in his own name; him you will follow.”
Yahanan/John 14:28, "You have heard that I told you: I go away, but come again to you. If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."
John 5:43, “I have come in My Father's Name, but you do not follow Me. Let another come in his own name; him you will follow.”
Yahanan/John 14:28, "You have heard that I told you: I go away, but come again to you. If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."
-
1
- Show all
When I underwent the spirit birth spoken of by John 3:3-8, I simultaneously
underwent an act of God that gave me something new. (2Cor 5:17, Gal
6:15, Eph 2:10)
However, it wasn't until I underwent the divine adoption process that I was
placed among God's posterity. (Gal 4:5, Eph 1:5)
Well; I'm not actually God's paternal offspring like Jesus is, but I'm content to
be one of His son's siblings no matter how I got there.
_
Before then, the Presence of the Lord could only be approached in the Holy of Holies, behind the veil and only once a year by the High Priest who had to go through much cleansing. But the Holy Spirit could indwell Jesus because He is unlike Aaron and all other priests, pure and undefiled.
Also, keep in mind that Jesus is the Seed prophesied in Genesis. He came from the Father, so His substance is of the Father and also, He took upon Himself our substance by His mother, the virgin.
John 12:25 Truly, truly, I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a seed; but if it dies, it bears much fruit.
There are two verses offered as cross-reference for this verse:
Romans 14:9 For this reason Christ died and returned to life, that He might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
and
1Cor 15:36 You fool! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies.
Would it be too far a stretch to look at His resurrection as His "sprouting"? with us now incorporated into '"the new man" producing much more similar fruit?
Also, keep in mind that Jesus is the Seed prophesied in Genesis. He came from the Father, so His substance is of the Father and also, He took upon Himself our substance by His mother, the virgin.
John 12:25 Truly, truly, I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a seed; but if it dies, it bears much fruit.
There are two verses offered as cross-reference for this verse:
Romans 14:9 For this reason Christ died and returned to life, that He might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
and
1Cor 15:36 You fool! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies.
Would it be too far a stretch to look at His resurrection as His "sprouting"? with us now incorporated into '"the new man" producing much more similar fruit?
-
1
- Show all
This must be a foolish question. for the Bible clearly states that there is only one God. Jesus said "I and the Father are one". -- and we read in John 1:18, "No man has seen God, Jesus Christ, He has revealed Him" . Then you have Isa. 9:6 which attributes to Jesus names which can only be given to God. -- Of course there are a multitude of other verses which could also be used here to show that Jesus and the Father are one. God (YHWH) is an unseeable Spirit and has simply chosen to reveal Himself in three ways. Not three persons , but three revelations. After conversion the Holy Spirit indwells believers to guide them. There are titles which all three share and which indicates that they are one. Here are just 3. --
Eternal - Father = Psm 90:2 / Son = John 8:58 / Holy Spirit = Heb. 9:14.
Creator - Father = Gen.1:1 / Son = Heb. 1: 2,10 / Holy Spirit = Job 26: 13 + 33:4
Omnipresence - Father = Jer. 23: 24 / Son = Matt 18: 20 + 28:20 / Holy Spirit = Psm 139: 7.
There is nothing difficult to understand about this subject. One must deliberately disregard Scripture to avoid it. --- I could write pages on this subject for there is so much Scripture in support of it and I find it hard to understand how people fail to see the truth that the one great Creator God YHWH reveals Himself in three different ways for three different purposes. Three revelations of one God which we have called "The Trinity".
Eternal - Father = Psm 90:2 / Son = John 8:58 / Holy Spirit = Heb. 9:14.
Creator - Father = Gen.1:1 / Son = Heb. 1: 2,10 / Holy Spirit = Job 26: 13 + 33:4
Omnipresence - Father = Jer. 23: 24 / Son = Matt 18: 20 + 28:20 / Holy Spirit = Psm 139: 7.
There is nothing difficult to understand about this subject. One must deliberately disregard Scripture to avoid it. --- I could write pages on this subject for there is so much Scripture in support of it and I find it hard to understand how people fail to see the truth that the one great Creator God YHWH reveals Himself in three different ways for three different purposes. Three revelations of one God which we have called "The Trinity".
-
1
- Show all
And God spoke all these words, saying: "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. "You shall have no other gods before Me.
- Exodus 20:1-3
I believe they are not contradictory; this is why: Notice the little “g” in “gods” (It’s not talking about Gods with a big G). Now let’s consider that in verse 5, it is written that our God is a jealous God. I believe this first commandment is talking about idolatry and not the Trinity. God created all things on the earth, the universe and the sea and He will not allow His creation to be worshipped.
- Exodus 20:1-3
I believe they are not contradictory; this is why: Notice the little “g” in “gods” (It’s not talking about Gods with a big G). Now let’s consider that in verse 5, it is written that our God is a jealous God. I believe this first commandment is talking about idolatry and not the Trinity. God created all things on the earth, the universe and the sea and He will not allow His creation to be worshipped.
.
● Ex 24:9-11 . .Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and
seventy of the elders of Israel: and they saw the God of Israel: and there
was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it
were the body of heaven in his clearness. And upon the nobles of the
children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and
drink.
And yet:
● Ex 33:20 . . You cannot see My face, for no one may see Me and live.
● John 1:18 . . No one has ever seen God
Plus:
There are many incidents throughout the Old Testament-- too numerous to
count --wherein folks heard an audible voice spoken by someone identifying
themselves as God and/or Jehovah. And yet:
● John 5:37 . .The Father who sent me . . .you have never heard His voice.
That claim was addressed to the Jews; who I think would strongly disagree
seeing as how it can be easily shown that God/Jehovah spoke to their
patriarchs with a voice that could be heard and understood.
_
● Ex 24:9-11 . .Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and
seventy of the elders of Israel: and they saw the God of Israel: and there
was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it
were the body of heaven in his clearness. And upon the nobles of the
children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and
drink.
And yet:
● Ex 33:20 . . You cannot see My face, for no one may see Me and live.
● John 1:18 . . No one has ever seen God
Plus:
There are many incidents throughout the Old Testament-- too numerous to
count --wherein folks heard an audible voice spoken by someone identifying
themselves as God and/or Jehovah. And yet:
● John 5:37 . .The Father who sent me . . .you have never heard His voice.
That claim was addressed to the Jews; who I think would strongly disagree
seeing as how it can be easily shown that God/Jehovah spoke to their
patriarchs with a voice that could be heard and understood.
_
Good question and point made.
I have wondered myself if Paul, was not leaning towards Modalism, when he introduces a Letter, it's via the Father and Lord, never "mentions" the Holy Spirit. Neither does the others like Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Jude, Peter, James, NONE OF THEM, say in their Beginning Letters, Greetings and Blessing from the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ [and the Holy Spirit]....Holy Spirit, is NEVER included in the Greeting. That is a Big Red Flag because WHY NOT?
But then we get this little Gem from Paul:
13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
14 who gave himself for us to redeem us
This is an Elevation of Jesus, unlike Paul ever mentions before: [our great God and Savior Jesus Christ] who gave himself for us to redeem us.
Paul, on several occasions claims, "Jesus, is the Physical Image to the Invisible Image of God," and that can be called Express Image or Same Essence. But here, Paul is saying, Jesus is: our great God and Savior Jesus Christ
Which is interesting, because Titus 2, is known as the [[Sound Doctrine]] Chapter
But I agree about that I cannot find anywhere in the Bible that answers the Question you ask.
I have wondered myself if Paul, was not leaning towards Modalism, when he introduces a Letter, it's via the Father and Lord, never "mentions" the Holy Spirit. Neither does the others like Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Jude, Peter, James, NONE OF THEM, say in their Beginning Letters, Greetings and Blessing from the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ [and the Holy Spirit]....Holy Spirit, is NEVER included in the Greeting. That is a Big Red Flag because WHY NOT?
But then we get this little Gem from Paul:
13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
14 who gave himself for us to redeem us
This is an Elevation of Jesus, unlike Paul ever mentions before: [our great God and Savior Jesus Christ] who gave himself for us to redeem us.
Paul, on several occasions claims, "Jesus, is the Physical Image to the Invisible Image of God," and that can be called Express Image or Same Essence. But here, Paul is saying, Jesus is: our great God and Savior Jesus Christ
Which is interesting, because Titus 2, is known as the [[Sound Doctrine]] Chapter
But I agree about that I cannot find anywhere in the Bible that answers the Question you ask.
Can you please explain in what respect do you mean that the Father is the Word of God? Are you talking about the spoken word of God? Now, if were to use your line of reasoning then according to John 1:1 Jesus is clearly identified as the "Logos/Word." This does not men Jesus is the spoken word of God but God Almighty in human form. John 1:14. Lastly, and in "logic" your asking to prove a "negative" assertion. Since your making the assertion in the positive, you provide the proof where the Father is the Word of God and in what respect is He the Word of God?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
-
1
- Show all