Saved by faith alone?

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Niki7

Guest
#761
#761
hornetguy said:
Save the drama for someone that is interested in playing those games.
If we can't discuss it in a civil manner, just let it go. I have.
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You desire to be right. You created the drama by stating that you were right even though I plainly said I was not thinking what you stated.

So go be right. I don't care about your seven years in Tibet or this forum. Your accusations are so patently false but you will stick by them because they work for you. They keep you in your comfort zone from which you do not care to leave. In order to leave, you would have to actually listen to what someone else is saying even if you do not agree with it.

This is your reply to my stating we are not saved by water baptism:

"hornetguy, post: 5125452, member: 234619"]So, if I understand all you folks correctly...

All someone has to do is say "I believe".... then sit on their scriptural butt the rest of their life, and they will be "saved" ..... no obedience is necessary (contrary to Jesus' own words).... nothing else.... just believe...

To this false understanding of yours, I replied:
Niki7 said:
No. It seems you do not understand at all. You just made that up, right? lol
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You then went on to say:
hornetguy, post: 5125482, member: 234619"]No, I think I do understand. My situation was a hypothetical one. If faith is all you need, then a person could do just that, and be saved.
Turns out, faith is NOT all you need..... it's back to my illustration of the guy on his roof in a flood....
God comes along in the boat to save him.... it's free salvation... doesn't cost anything.... someone else (Jesus) paid for the whole trip....
All the person has to do is climb into the boat.... but he says "NO, Lord..... I cannot do that, because that would be a WORK" The man fully believed he could be saved, but he refused to DO anything to enable it..... his acceptance of the free gift was to merely step into the boat... an act of faith and belief...

Would he be saved? Of course not.

Our salvation is paid for... it's free, but it requires us to step into the boat.... to appeal to

God for that clear conscience, and to get forgiveness of sin.... it's just a step. Make it a "work", miss taking the step, miss the boat

So you ignored what I actually said and came back with the response above.

The Bible makes salvation very plain. It is a matter of faith in what Jesus has done on our behalf; something we can never accomplish on our own as we are fallen and the Bible states that our righteousness is as a filthy rag (you can look up exactly what that means) so all this talk about guys on a roof or boats is neither here nor there. There is only one way to be saved and that is in trusting Jesus that He has accomplished all that you cannot do in your flesh and imagination.

This crap answer, and yes I said crap, which technically means something of extremely poor quality, rather than simply a slang word for something else (we all know what I mean,) that people who understand and proclaim salvation through Christ alone without works being involved, also believe we can sin like a boatload of pagan sailors when ashore after being at sea for 6 months, is something I think the devil has cooked up to deceive people into thinking they have works they can offer to somehow appease God when in fact He has completely forgiven them and desires to fellowship with them and they do not have to work for it. (yes that was a run on sentence)

Confusing the good works we are created to do, which the Bible speaks of, with being good boys and girls completely misses the mark and that would include baptism. We are instructed to be baptized in water in order to demonstrate to the world, spiritual realm included, that we identify with Jesus in His death and resurrection and we are His, we desire to follow and live for Him.

ONLY the blood of Christ cleanses from sin. Salvation, actual salvation, hinges on believing that. If you have been properly saved, that is you understand that your efforts do not save you no matter how noble you fancy yourself to be, then you have nothing to brag about or accuse others of doing or not doing.

And really I am happy to discuss any of that with people who actually discuss and do not dismiss as you have done.

I am not going to have a back and forth with someone who believe baptism in water is some sort of spiritual exercise when the actual spiritual exchange occurs when a person accepts Jesus by faith.
 
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Niki7

Guest
#762
#762
Radius said:
Hornet and Lamar are children of Cain. Abel brought blood to be offered and Cain brought the works of his hands which the Lord shunned.

Good luck at the Great White Throne Judgment. I don't know if God will forgive this sin, because you are adding to the cross, if He does, you are very lucky.
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Had the Cain/Abel offering discussion (not here) with someone just a few days ago. They basically said the same thing regarding blood sacrifice and human effort. I hadn't thought of it before just like that, but I think it is accurate.

I pray some people are just unawares of what they do or say and God knows the heart. However, sadly, some have just become like the Galatians in their understanding.
 
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Niki7

Guest
#763
#763
mailmandan said:
Man is saved through faith in Christ alone (apart from the merit of works) yet authentic faith does not remain alone (apart from the presence of works). This is not hard to understand. It's just hard for people who embrace salvation by faith + works to ACCEPT.
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Exactly (y)
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#764
May 21, 2022
6,339
2,465
113
#764
Cameron143 said:
This is the whole point James is making in James chapter 2. There is no faith if it is not evidenced by works.
One preacher put it something like this...faith alone saves, but the faith that saves is never alone...
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I wonder how much works, which works prove faith is not alone? :unsure:
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#766
May 21, 2022
6,339
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#766
Cameron143 said:
I think Lamar put up a chart...post 754.
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Wow, good to know that baptism can resurrect a dead faith according to post 754!


But we have a problem cause "dead" really means "non-existent" according to popular interpretation.

So we have James devoting a large portion of his letter to the brethren telling them they have a "non-existent faith" because they have no works and yet he failed to tell the brethren about the faith that saves to replace the "non-existent faith" that has no works.

Totally and completely logical.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#767
Mar 1, 2022
20,089
6,885
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62
#767
HeIsHere said:
Wow, good to know that baptism can resurrect a dead faith according to post 754!


But we have a problem cause "dead" really means "non-existent" according to popular interpretation.

So we have James devoting a large portion of his letter to the brethren telling them they have a "non-existent faith" because they have no works and yet he failed to tell the brethren about the faith that saves to replace the "non-existent faith" that has no works.

Totally and completely logical.
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If you are going to insist on logic, the least you can do is supply a chart.
 
Lamar

Lamar

Active member
#768
May 21, 2023
955
143
43
#768
timemeddler said:
Im guessing he was refering to this

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:8-10
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Here is the quote:

"We are saved by Grace alone, through Faith alone, in Christ alone."

I doubt that Nehemiah6 is referring to these verses since they do not include the most important word, "alone".

His quote: (3) alones
Your verses: (0) alones
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#769
Apr 7, 2014
25,574
13,551
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#769
Lamar said:
Here is the quote:

"We are saved by Grace alone, through Faith alone, in Christ alone."

I doubt that Nehemiah6 is referring to these verses since they do not include the most important word, "alone".

His quote: (3) alones
Your verses: (0) alones
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We are saved by grace and not grace + merited favor so it's grace alone in that regard. We are saved through faith and not faith + works so it's faith alone in that regard. Christ is the object of our faith in receiving salvation and not Christ + something else/works so it's Christ alone in that regard. (Romans 3:24-28; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9)

The word alone does not mean that one negates the other as if we are saved by grace excluding faith and Christ or that we are saved through faith excluding grace and Christ or that we are saved by Christ excluding grace and faith. I understand that this is hard for you to wrap your head around. It's hard for all who teach works-salvation/works-righteousness to wrap their head around.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#770
Apr 7, 2014
25,574
13,551
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#770
HeIsHere said:
I wonder how much works, which works prove faith is not alone? :unsure:
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It did not take much for the thief on the cross who simply rebuked the other thief, defended the Lord and asked Jesus to remember him when He comes into his kingdom, demonstrating he had faith in Jesus.

In Luke 23:43, we read that the thief on the cross said this to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.” In verse 43, Jesus said to him “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

In Matthew 27:39-43, we see that those who passed by, along with the chief priests' scribes and elders blasphemed, mocked and shook their heads at Jesus and even the robbers who were crucified with Him reviled Him with the same thing. *Yet, moments later, we see that one of the thieves had a "change of mind" (repentance) placed his faith in Christ for salvation and was saved. (Luke 23:40-43) There was not enough time to accomplish years of multiple acts of obedience/works in a single day, yet the thief acknowledged his guilt, defended Jesus and placed his faith in Him and was saved. That was enough.

In Matthew 12:37, Jesus said - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words reveal the condition of our hearts. Words are evidence for, or against a man's being in a state of righteousness, as we see below.

Luke 23:39 - Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, “If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us.” - by your words you will be condemned.

Luke 23:40 - But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.” 42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.” - by your words you will be justified.
 
J

justpassinthrough

Senior Member
#771
Oct 31, 2015
2,290
588
113
#771
Lamar said:
Here is the quote:

"We are saved by Grace alone, through Faith alone, in Christ alone."

I doubt that Nehemiah6 is referring to these verses since they do not include the most important word, "alone".

His quote: (3) alones
Your verses: (0) alones
Click to expand...

No such thing as being saved by faith alone.
 
Lamar

Lamar

Active member
#773
May 21, 2023
955
143
43
#773
mailmandan said:
It did not take much for the thief on the cross who simply rebuked the other thief, defended the Lord and asked Jesus to remember him when He comes into his kingdom, demonstrating he had faith in Jesus.

In Luke 23:43, we read that the thief on the cross said this to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.” In verse 43, Jesus said to him “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

In Matthew 27:39-43, we see that those who passed by, along with the chief priests' scribes and elders blasphemed, mocked and shook their heads at Jesus and even the robbers who were crucified with Him reviled Him with the same thing. *Yet, moments later, we see that one of the thieves had a "change of mind" (repentance) placed his faith in Christ for salvation and was saved. (Luke 23:40-43) There was not enough time to accomplish years of multiple acts of obedience/works in a single day, yet the thief acknowledged his guilt, defended Jesus and placed his faith in Him and was saved. That was enough.

In Matthew 12:37, Jesus said - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words reveal the condition of our hearts. Words are evidence for, or against a man's being in a state of righteousness, as we see below.

Luke 23:39 - Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, “If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us.” - by your words you will be condemned.

Luke 23:40 - But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.” 42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.” - by your words you will be justified.
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Wow!
Mailmandan you did it!!! You found the proverbial...I feel much better now.
 
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