What does that simple question reveal?

The context of the account after Paul asked the question does not change what the question expresses. It expresses the reality that believing in Jesus does not automatically result in a person being indwelt with the Holy Ghost. This is confirmed in numerous biblical records, including the self-same account.

As for the account, the individuals were disciples of John the Baptist. Neither they nor he had any idea that Jesus would eventually die, be buried and resurrect. Paul's message parallels the one Peter initially presented in Jerusalem. (Acts 2:37-42) The 12 individuals were told about Jesus and were rebaptized in water in the name of Jesus (see Acts 10:47-48) It was only after Paul laid hands on them that they each received the Holy Ghost as evidenced by speaking in tongues and prophesying.

Every single person must experience the Holy Ghost coming to dwell within their body. (Rom. 8:9) It is an essential part of NT rebirth.
Furthermore no where in the Acts 19 account is it stated that what occurred was for the building of a church. Verse 7 actually clarifies that the experience applied specifically to all 12 men.

"Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

7 And all the men were about twelve.

Yeah, the way it was worded sure was confusing, and when I first questioned it, the matter
was further confused by him saying that is correct when it was not what he meant at all. LOL


Ephesians 1:13-14

Who was Jesus talking to when all these things were said? His deciples. You actually hsve to go back to the end of John 11:54, to see that. So, was the promise(s) to them? Did the promise(s) come to pass? If so, where is it recorded? Yes, these things did occur and it's recorded in Acts 1 and 2. Read carefully and read the parallel gospels as well. What you'll see such as when reviewing the Luke passages, as in Luke 24, is that the promise was to and for the deciples, his apostles, and that as aforementioned, the falling of the Holy Ghost, or the baptism of the Holy Ghost, happened to them and was meant for them, and only they had the ability to further enable the miraculous manifestations of the Spirit, those listed in 1 Cor 12:8-10 (so called gifts) by the laying on of their hands. Today, there is no baptism in the Holy Ghost as it was in biblical times. Today, we, upon being baptized into Christ are promised the gift of the Holy Ghost per Acts 2:38; the gift of the Spirit itself, the indwelling of the Spirit, NOT, the gifts (plural), those miraculous manifestations of the Spirit as aforementioned.

Knowing the context of the empowering of the Holy Spirit comes from Joel 2 and it was Fulfilled on the Day of Pentacost as Peter Proclaimed. Acts 2:16-17

Jesus said in Acts 1:8

But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

As Jesus also said, Mathew.28:19-20


19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

The Great Commission was to the disciples, too. Are we not included in that today, also?

That is mixing issues. Sure, it's our part to go out and make deciples as well which is my sole purpose for participating on these forums, but don't confuse issues. I always contend that the various NT letters were not written to us, but to others and for others in biblical times and predicated upon the issues at that time, but there is application to us which we simply need to sort out and understand by careful study.

I agree that's why I began by asking them to explain it first instead.

ok, well, will just agree to disagree.

thank you,

things really don't change much.

nothing new under the sun, you know

No. That is not what Scripture states at all. That is a false doctrine which perverts the truth about the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Oh rats, I forgot. I'm not supposed to address others comments about water baptism. My obsession of sharing God's word just got the better of me.

Don't confuse your eisegesis with the truth from God's word.

brother ask yourself was Peter or John or anyone else re-baptized in water ? John the Baptist baptism ( done in water ) was about this long standing promise from God

“But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord. Now Elisabeth's full time came that she should be delivered; and she brought forth a son. And he asked for a writing table, and wrote, saying, His name is John. And they marvelled all. And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; For he hath visited and redeemed his people, And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: For thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways; To give knowledge of salvation unto his people By the remission of their sins, Through the tender mercy of our God; Whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭1:13, 15-17, 57, 63, 67-68, 76-78‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they had been baptized in water with this baptism

“John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. And there went out unto him all the land of Judæa, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:4-5‬ ‭

they actually say this but they hadn’t been baptized by the spirit yet which is what Paul is asking them there’s no need for them to be baptized in water for remission the group in acts ten you use as an example were gentiles and hadn’t ever been baptized for remission

The Ephesians say they had already been baptized in water and pup explains about the spirit and then Jesus name is in thier hearts Paul literally says this brother

“Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭19:4-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The only part that was missing is they didn’t hear the truth about believing in Jesus all they knew was “ john is baptizing for remission of sins “ and they. Relieved and acted later Paul preached Jesus to them and they receive the spirit is all I’m saying

consider Peter , did he also need to be re baptized In Water because he wasn’t baptized in the name of Jesus either until he received the baptism of the spirit at pentocost why didn’t anyone else need to be re baptized with johns baptism ?

“I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“and, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; ( notice Jesus is approving johns baptism not saying it needs to be done again )


but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:4-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:2-4, 16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

then later Peter goes to a group of gentiles and they need baptism
In water for remission because they hadn’t been baptized yet

baptism is one act on our part if we’re baptized for remission we just need to receive the spirit

Lol it’s not obsession to believe what you learn in scriptire bro

Its more that people are obsessed with removing what the Bible teaches us about each topic to make everything irrelevant so we don’t need to do anything

communion ? Nope it’s just a ritual . Baptism in water for remission of sins ? No that’s a ritual and Old Testament …it’s not as if God is going to teach believers one thing then come and say “forget about what I said now your already saved don’t believe anything I said before “

Baptism is just what the Bible teaches everyone can’t accept it though that’s the problem with hypergracer if you don’t have to do anything everything you learn you need to do becomes irrelevant

Thanks, and I do know that. And no matter the insults I intend to continue to share scripture:

"Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house." Matt 5:11-15

yes brother we also want to always still learn too from scripture

“And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves;

if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:24-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Satan works hard to teach us things that aren’t true what I mean to say is alot of times it’s ignorance and a snare learned beforehand and isn’t personal and willful disagreement and insult just the enemy stirring up the pot between believers

I've often thought about Peter's words specific to the command to be baptized AND receive the Holy Ghost. He said EVERYONE was required to repent and be baptized in the name of the Lord. As I mentioned I do believe this is water baptism. Because in every case being baptized in the name of the Lord is distinguished from the experience of actually receiving the Holy Ghost.

Also relevant is the fact that the OT sacrificial laws were still in effect when John was preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sin. It was only after Jesus fulfilled what those OT laws pointed to through His sacrificial death that the NT was ushered in. And the command to repent and be water baptized in the name of the Lord was begun. As I mentioned the scripture in Acts 10:47-48 confirms that baptism in the name of the Lord is water baptism. Also, consider that Ananias told Paul to arise, and be baptized and wash away his sins calling on the name of the Lord. The parallel: be baptized in the name of the Lord for remission of sin. (Acts 22:16)

Although our understanding differs somewhat I thank you for sharing. I enjoy our discussions.

Good catch.

You are so smart you are even right when you are wrong.

His point does not change what Paul's question revealed. Believing does not automatically impart the indwelling of the Holy Ghost. The experiences are distinct from one another. The actual account clarifies this truth as well.

And, the NT water baptism for remission of sin is to be administered in the name of Jesus Christ. Jesus prophesied this change would occur. (Luke 24:47) And Peter clarified that baptism in the name of Jesus is water baptism. (Acts 10:47-48)

You are conflating 2 things. Every believer is indwelt by the Holy Spirit as Romans 8 reveals. It is not possible to be a child of God without such.
The verse you quoted is dealing with what is taught in Ephesians 1:13. Unlike the indwelling of the Spirit which is nonexperiential and positional...we are placed into Christ, this expression of the Spirit is partially inward but also has an outward manifestation. Rather than judicially placing us into the body of Christ, its purpose is to seal and authenticate to the believer that what is wrought in him or her is genuinely of God. It is God's seal and assurance to the believer.
In the book of Acts you find this happening alongside belief or at a later time.
The reason believers don't experience this to a much greater degree is because it's not spoken of in many circles and taught errantly in others.