Saved by faith alone?

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07-07-07

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Jun 13, 2023
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Do you believe it is possible for an individual to live in sinless perfect in this present world?
You are conflating walking in willful sin with "sinless perfection". Again, there is a difference between ignorant sin and willful sin, as per the Scriptures.

Numbers 15
[27] ‘And if a person sins unintentionally, then he shall bring a female goat in its first year as a sin offering.
[28] So the priest shall make atonement for the person who sins unintentionally, when he sins unintentionally before the Lord, to make atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him.
[29] You shall have one law for him who sins unintentionally, for him who is native-born among the children of Israel and for the stranger who dwells among them.
[30] ‘But the person who does anything presumptuously, whether he is native-born or a stranger, that one brings reproach on the Lord, and he shall be cut off from among his people.
[31] Because he has despised the word of the Lord, and has broken His commandment, that person shall be completely cut off; his guilt shall be upon him.’ ” (NKJV)
 

07-07-07

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Jun 13, 2023
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We aren't saved by obedience, but the saved are obedient.
It's an act of obedience to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. People want Jesus to be "Savior" of their lives but not "Lord" of their lives. Impossible to be saved that way.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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You are conflating walking in willful sin with "sinless perfection". Again, there is a difference between ignorant sin and willful sin, as per the Scriptures.

Numbers 15
[27] ‘And if a person sins unintentionally, then he shall bring a female goat in its first year as a sin offering.
[28] So the priest shall make atonement for the person who sins unintentionally, when he sins unintentionally before the Lord, to make atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him.
[29] You shall have one law for him who sins unintentionally, for him who is native-born among the children of Israel and for the stranger who dwells among them.
[30] ‘But the person who does anything presumptuously, whether he is native-born or a stranger, that one brings reproach on the Lord, and he shall be cut off from among his people.
[31] Because he has despised the word of the Lord, and has broken His commandment, that person shall be completely cut off; his guilt shall be upon him.’ ” (NKJV)
A simple yes or no would suffice but I'll simplify: do you believe it is possible for someone to live and not willfully sin in this world?
 

NightTwister

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Jul 5, 2023
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It's an act of obedience to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. People want Jesus to be "Savior" of their lives but not "Lord" of their lives. Impossible to be saved that way.
We're saved by grace through faith in Jesus, not "by accepting Jesus." Those who are saved will be obedient and bear fruit.
 

07-07-07

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Jun 13, 2023
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How is it then that Cornelius, et al, received the Holy Spirit (and thus, forgiveness/Salvation) before getting Saved?
Cornelius believed the message preached by Peter. Moreover, Peter said that God receives those who fear Him and work righteousness. This is obedience.

Acts 10
[34] Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
[35] But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
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Interesting, but a bit confusing...
Did they or did they not receive the Holy Spirit before being baptized?
It seems quite clear to me that they did.
In this one case they did receive the Spirit before baptism.... one case, and it was specifically to prove to the Jews that Gentiles were accepted by God
 

07-07-07

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Jun 13, 2023
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A simple yes or no would suffice but I'll simplify: do you believe it is possible for someone to live and not willfully sin in this world?
Yes, but it takes the love of Jesus working on the inside. I have a question for you? Do you think if a person willfully sins against God that that person is still saved?
 

07-07-07

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Jun 13, 2023
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We're saved by grace through faith in Jesus, not "by accepting Jesus." Those who are saved will be obedient and bear fruit.
Semantics. Hair-splitting. Are you trying to muddy the waters to justify walking in the flesh and yet still retain Salvation?
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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Yes, but it takes the love of Jesus working on the inside. I have a question for you? Do you think if a person willfully sins against God that that person is still saved?
Yes. I don't believe there is anything that can separate from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
What do you believe it means to be in Christ? And can you show me from scripture where it claims specifically that one who is in Christ can be out of Christ again?
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they
spoke in tongues and prophesied. There were about twelve men in all.


Baptism did not give the Holy Spirit in those cases.
As I have mentioned many times, both water baptism in the name of Jesus, and receiving the Holy Ghost/Spirit are NT rebirth requirements. However, being water baptized does not automatically result in a person being indwelt with the Holy Ghost. As you point out, the account confirms this. The record also confirms believing in Jesus doesn't automatically cause a person to be indwelt by the Holy Ghost either. They are distinct experiences. Note Paul's question, "Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed?" Why not just ask if they believed, if in fact everyone receives the Holy Ghost the moment they believe in Jesus? Also, why did Jesus tell people to pray to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost if believing brought about the reality? (Luke 11:13) And further evidence is found in regards to the Samaritan's. They believed in Jesus, and submitted to water baptism in the name of Jesus, yet they did not receive the Holy Ghost until days later. (Acts 8:12-18)
 

07-07-07

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Jun 13, 2023
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Yes. I don't believe there is anything that can separate from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
What do you believe it means to be in Christ? And can you show me from scripture where it claims specifically that one who is in Christ can be out of Christ again?
I have cited it already with Galatians 5:24. It reads that they who belong to Jesus have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. Where does that leave those who do not crucify the flesh with the affections and lusts? Outside of the Kingdom.

Revelation 22
[12] “And behold, I [Jesus] am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.
[13] I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”
[14] Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
[15] But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
[16] “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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Keep defiling yourself with sin and find out at the end of your journey that the door will be closed to you. It takes real love for Jesus to walk with Him in holiness and righteousness.

Mark 7
[20] And He [Jesus] said, “What comes out of a man, that defiles a man.
[21] For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
[22] thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness.
[23] All these evil things come from within and defile a man.”
When did you get saved last? Today? In the last hour? When? As soon as you sin, you are lost, right? We all would need to be saved daily.
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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I have cited it already with Galatians 5:24. It reads that they who belong to Jesus have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. Where does that leave those who do not crucify the flesh with the affections and lusts? Outside of the Kingdom.

Revelation 22
[12] “And behold, I [Jesus] am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.
[13] I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”
[14] Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
[15] But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
[16] “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”
Right. Have crucified. Past tense. Done. Those who haven't are outside Christ. But where does it say you can be in Christ and then not in Christ?
 

07-07-07

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Jun 13, 2023
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Retain? That's an odd concept.
Pay attention to the word "if" in verse 23.

Colossians 1
[20] And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
[21] And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
[22] In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
[23] If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
 

NightTwister

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Jul 5, 2023
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Pay attention to the word "if" in verse 23.

Colossians 1
[20] And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
[21] And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
[22] In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
[23] If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
I don't do proof text discussions. They're a waste of time.
 

Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
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Interesting, but a bit confusing...
Did they or did they not receive the Holy Spirit before being baptized?
It seems quite clear to me that they did.
Ted01,
would you be like "those of the circumcision and forbid water"?

Would you refuse them the baptism of the remission of sins that Peter commanded?

Would you not insist that they be water baptized? Peter most certainly did.

There is no mention of their sins being forgiven, they were not an exception they had to be baptized for the remission of sins like everyone else.
 

07-07-07

Active member
Jun 13, 2023
240
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When did you get saved last? Today? In the last hour? When? As soon as you sin, you are lost, right? We all would need to be saved daily.
What did Jesus say that defiles you?

Mark 7
[20] And He [Jesus] said, “What comes out of a man, that defiles a man.
[21] For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
[22] thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness.
[23] All these evil things come from within and defile a man.”
 

07-07-07

Active member
Jun 13, 2023
240
48
28
Right. Have crucified. Past tense. Done. Those who haven't are outside Christ. But where does it say you can be in Christ and then not in Christ?
How have you crucified the flesh yet still engage in the works of the flesh?