Saved by faith alone?

07-07-07 · Jul 17, 2023

You are conflating walking in willful sin with "sinless perfection". Again, there is a difference between ignorant sin and willful sin, as per the Scriptures.

Numbers 15
[27] ‘And if a person sins unintentionally, then he shall bring a female goat in its first year as a sin offering.
[28] So the priest shall make atonement for the person who sins unintentionally, when he sins unintentionally before the Lord, to make atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him.
[29] You shall have one law for him who sins unintentionally, for him who is native-born among the children of Israel and for the stranger who dwells among them.
[30] ‘But the person who does anything presumptuously, whether he is native-born or a stranger, that one brings reproach on the Lord, and he shall be cut off from among his people.
[31] Because he has despised the word of the Lord, and has broken His commandment, that person shall be completely cut off; his guilt shall be upon him.’ ” (NKJV)

07-07-07 · Jul 17, 2023

NightTwister said:

It's an act of obedience to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. People want Jesus to be "Savior" of their lives but not "Lord" of their lives. Impossible to be saved that way.

Cameron143 · Jul 17, 2023

07-07-07 said:

You are conflating walking in willful sin with "sinless perfection". Again, there is a difference between ignorant sin and willful sin, as per the Scriptures.

Numbers 15
[27] ‘And if a person sins unintentionally, then he shall bring a female goat in its first year as a sin offering.
[28] So the priest shall make atonement for the person who sins unintentionally, when he sins unintentionally before the Lord, to make atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him.
[29] You shall have one law for him who sins unintentionally, for him who is native-born among the children of Israel and for the stranger who dwells among them.
[30] ‘But the person who does anything presumptuously, whether he is native-born or a stranger, that one brings reproach on the Lord, and he shall be cut off from among his people.
[31] Because he has despised the word of the Lord, and has broken His commandment, that person shall be completely cut off; his guilt shall be upon him.’ ” (NKJV)

A simple yes or no would suffice but I'll simplify: do you believe it is possible for someone to live and not willfully sin in this world?

NightTwister · Jul 17, 2023

07-07-07 said:

We're saved by grace through faith in Jesus, not "by accepting Jesus." Those who are saved will be obedient and bear fruit.

07-07-07 · Jul 17, 2023

Ted01 said:

Cornelius believed the message preached by Peter. Moreover, Peter said that God receives those who fear Him and work righteousness. This is obedience.

Acts 10
[34] Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
[35] But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

hornetguy · Jul 17, 2023

Ted01 said:

In this one case they did receive the Spirit before baptism.... one case, and it was specifically to prove to the Jews that Gentiles were accepted by God

07-07-07 · Jul 17, 2023

Cameron143 said:

Yes, but it takes the love of Jesus working on the inside. I have a question for you? Do you think if a person willfully sins against God that that person is still saved?

07-07-07 · Jul 17, 2023

NightTwister said:

Semantics. Hair-splitting. Are you trying to muddy the waters to justify walking in the flesh and yet still retain Salvation?

Cameron143 · Jul 17, 2023

07-07-07 said:

Yes. I don't believe there is anything that can separate from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
What do you believe it means to be in Christ? And can you show me from scripture where it claims specifically that one who is in Christ can be out of Christ again?

Wansvic · Jul 17, 2023

Magenta said:

As I have mentioned many times, both water baptism in the name of Jesus, and receiving the Holy Ghost/Spirit are NT rebirth requirements. However, being water baptized does not automatically result in a person being indwelt with the Holy Ghost. As you point out, the account confirms this. The record also confirms believing in Jesus doesn't automatically cause a person to be indwelt by the Holy Ghost either. They are distinct experiences. Note Paul's question, "Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed?" Why not just ask if they believed, if in fact everyone receives the Holy Ghost the moment they believe in Jesus? Also, why did Jesus tell people to pray to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost if believing brought about the reality? (Luke 11:13) And further evidence is found in regards to the Samaritan's. They believed in Jesus, and submitted to water baptism in the name of Jesus, yet they did not receive the Holy Ghost until days later. (Acts 8:12-18)

NightTwister · Jul 17, 2023

07-07-07 said:

Retain? That's an odd concept.

07-07-07 · Jul 17, 2023

Cameron143 said:

I have cited it already with Galatians 5:24. It reads that they who belong to Jesus have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. Where does that leave those who do not crucify the flesh with the affections and lusts? Outside of the Kingdom.

Revelation 22
[12] “And behold, I [Jesus] am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.
[13] I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”
[14] Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
[15] But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
[16] “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”

John146 · Jul 17, 2023

07-07-07 said:

When did you get saved last? Today? In the last hour? When? As soon as you sin, you are lost, right? We all would need to be saved daily.

Cameron143 · Jul 17, 2023

NightTwister said:

You haven't paid your salvation retainer? Mine is on easy pay.

Cameron143 · Jul 17, 2023

07-07-07 said:

I have cited it already with Galatians 5:24. It reads that they who belong to Jesus have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. Where does that leave those who do not crucify the flesh with the affections and lusts? Outside of the Kingdom.

Revelation 22
[12] “And behold, I [Jesus] am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.
[13] I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”
[14] Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
[15] But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
[16] “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”

Right. Have crucified. Past tense. Done. Those who haven't are outside Christ. But where does it say you can be in Christ and then not in Christ?

07-07-07 · Jul 17, 2023

NightTwister said:

Pay attention to the word "if" in verse 23.

Colossians 1
[20] And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
[21] And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
[22] In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
[23] If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

NightTwister · Jul 17, 2023

07-07-07 said:

Pay attention to the word "if" in verse 23.

Colossians 1
[20] And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
[21] And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
[22] In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
[23] If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

I don't do proof text discussions. They're a waste of time.

Lamar · Jul 17, 2023

Ted01 said:

Ted01,
would you be like "those of the circumcision and forbid water"?

Would you refuse them the baptism of the remission of sins that Peter commanded?

Would you not insist that they be water baptized? Peter most certainly did.

There is no mention of their sins being forgiven, they were not an exception they had to be baptized for the remission of sins like everyone else.

07-07-07 · Jul 17, 2023

John146 said:

What did Jesus say that defiles you?

Mark 7
[20] And He [Jesus] said, “What comes out of a man, that defiles a man.
[21] For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
[22] thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness.
[23] All these evil things come from within and defile a man.”

07-07-07 · Jul 17, 2023

Cameron143 said:

How have you crucified the flesh yet still engage in the works of the flesh?

Saved by faith alone?

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