How to love your family, when God hates the nonelects?

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Jun 20, 2022
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No. The gift is spiritual life from spiritual death. A dead person cannot choose to receive anything. They have to first have it in order to know it, which once they do, they would never relinquish it because who would choose death.
Does not matter, that life, WILL NOT begin, until You choose, to Receive, Jesus.
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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Rev 22 17- The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.
[Rev 22:17 KJV] 17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

The "hear(ing)" is spiritual hearing, not human hearing and that only comes from being born again. Those who thirst only realize they thirst (for the gospel) because they have become born again. The whosoever are the elect.
If not through God, then how does someone give to themselves eternal life?

And this is the way the outsider sees Calvins God. Why would God say "Come,Obey, Repent, Turn" if it's not possible? None of those verses should be there. God would be cruel and unjust if Calvin were right.
[2Co 2:16 KJV] 16 To the one [we are] the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who [is] sufficient for these things?

What about those people who for reasons outside of their control (age, illness, infirmity, physical location, etc), cannot hear or respond to the gospel if their choosing were dependent upon themselves, and therefore, they are unable to choose? Do they face God's judgment too? Would God be unjust for them too?
 
Jun 20, 2022
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We know, man IS NOT Predestined, because, Ephesians 1:4 says, BEFORE, the Foundation of the EARTH, God's Plan, was made, that God's Creation, could be Saved, by RECEIVING Jesus!

So the Elect Life, will not begin, until, one RECEIVES Jesus!

That is ONLY accomplished, by, our CHOICE!
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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No oddly enough I didn't see the revived post until after I made my comment. You cannot refute what I'm saying without arguing with the Gospel itself. Paul tells who he is talking about and gives context in the first few verses. So you can say night and day it doesn't but the proof is written there in black and white. He's speaking of his countrymen, the same that Romans 11 is speaking to the Jews.
I'm not going to go though this again. He is speaking to the elect.

Yes, I understand, but if you stand by Calvin then that is what he did to come to his conclusions. He was just utterly wrong. He was stained with too much Catholic teaching. Yet even the Catholics agree in free will. The verses are direct and clear that man has a choice. So I can say I'm not going after you but Calvin but if you espouse his beliefs it will become personal to you.
A spiritually dead person does not have free will. They are oblivious to external stimuli in order to choose. They have to be
made alive first.

[Eph 2:1 KJV] 1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;
[Col 2:13 KJV] 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

[2Co 4:3-4 KJV] 3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Yes, we agree that just being a Jew doesn't save a person. But Romans 11 says they can be restored. That God is able and willing to restore them if they... repent. So even the chosen people have a choice. When the Jews rebelled, God used the Gentile "to make the jealous" so they would return. All that involves choice. Sorry, there is no denying that man has free will, that he can choose.
There is no restoration except to be of the elect. Paul was seeking to make jealous those of the elect of the Jews for their edification.

Well, Calvin believes He did. So if you don't I'm glad. But again Romans 11 says God can and will restore the Jews. And He will do so because He will reveal Himself to them and they will believe, the same as we have.

There are only two peoples: the elect and the non-elect. God cannot restore the Israel en-masse because He divorced it.
If He will not restore en-masse, then please define precisely whom it is that will be restored and under what conditions will they be restored? If it is not of Israel, then there is no linkage to any of the Jews for their restoration, and if of Israel, then all Jews must be restored.
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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We know, man IS NOT Predestined, because, Ephesians 1:4 says, BEFORE, the Foundation of the EARTH, God's Plan, was made, that God's Creation, could be Saved, by RECEIVING Jesus!

So the Elect Life, will not begin, until, one RECEIVES Jesus!

That is ONLY accomplished, by, our CHOICE!
Where do you find choice mentioned anywhere in the below? It was all God's work, none of it ours.

[Eph 1:4-6 KJV]
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
 
Jun 20, 2022
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Where do you find choice mentioned anywhere in the below? It was all God's work, none of it ours.

[Eph 1:4-6 KJV]
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

All this is, these 3 Verses, describing God's Plan, that was Before, the Foundation of the Earth.
This is Just the PLAN, that God created, being EXPLAINED.


Paul, still says, in Colossians 2, we need to RECEIVE Jesus!
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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All this is, these 3 Verses, describing God's Plan, that was Before, the Foundation of the Earth.
This is Just the PLAN, that God created, being EXPLAINED.


Paul, still says, in Colossians 2, we need to RECEIVE Jesus!
Where do you see "plan" mentioned anywhere? 'Chosen", "predestined", "made", doesn't sound like a "plan" to me but actions.
You are trying to impose something upon those verses that they clearly don't say nor were intended to say.
And those verses were examples- the Bible is replete with others, in fact, that doctrine is the foundation of the Bible.
I'm not sure which verses in Col 2 you are referring to, but it is God who moves within us both to will and to do of His
good pleasure.
 
Jun 20, 2022
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Where do you see "plan" mentioned anywhere? 'Chosen", "predestined", "made", doesn't sound like a "plan" to me but actions.
You are trying to impose something upon those verses that they clearly don't say nor were intended to say.
And those verses were examples- the Bible is replete with others, in fact, that doctrine is the foundation of the Bible.
I'm not sure which verses in Col 2 you are referring to, but it is God who moves within us both to will and to do of His
good pleasure.

From the first words from Paul, in Verse, 4, begins what God had decided to do Before the Foundation of the Earth.
Verses 4-6 literally tell us the Details of this Plan.

You really have to HATE GOD, to twist His Plan, into a Ponzi Scheme, to be Forced Saved!
 
Jun 20, 2022
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In fact, the FORCED Salvation, through Ponzi Scheme, is easily Debunked:

כִּ֣י לֹ֤א אֶחְפֹּץ֙ בְּמ֣וֹת הַמֵּ֔ת נְאֻ֖ם אֲדֹנָ֣י יֱהֹוִ֑ה וְהָשִׁ֖יבוּ וִֽחְיֽו
For it is not My desire that anyone shall die—declares the Sovereign GOD. Repent, therefore, and live!

I see a lot of Salvation FORCING by GOD here, NOT: declares the Sovereign GOD. Repent, therefore, and live!

I see God COMMANDING and we are to Obey, which is our, FREE WILL, to OBEY!

But, I see NOwhere, GOD claiming, YOU SINNERS I SAVED YOU BECAUSE I FORCED YOU TO BE WITH ME FOR ALL ETERNITY!
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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From the first words from Paul, in Verse, 4, begins what God had decided to do Before the Foundation of the Earth.
Verses 4-6 literally tell us the Details of this Plan.

You really have to HATE GOD, to twist His Plan, into a Ponzi Scheme, to be Forced Saved!
I in no way hate God, but you clearly hate His mercy and grace and choose instead to be under law and works. Your comments are too ridiculous and absurd to justify further reply.
 
Jun 20, 2022
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I in no way hate God
I know you don't hate God!
I know you have the utmost reverence towards God.
but you clearly hate His mercy and grace and choose instead to be under law and works. Your comments are too ridiculous and absurd to justify further reply.
You really don't even have a clue what you are saying here.
You are so offended, BECAUSE, you KNOW, your Doctrines, are Biblically and Godly, INCORRECT.
So, you are going to push, Grace and Mercy.

Grace and Mercy, ARE ALL OVER the Plan of God, in Ephesians 1:4-6.

Before God made the Earth, God KNEW man would SIN.
So, He made a Plan for Salvation.
Ephesians 1:4-6 is this Plan!

It does not get any more Grace and Mercy than that!
 

MichaelZ

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Jun 11, 2023
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I am a believer in Middle Knowledge. God knows all of our possible choices and determines all of the possible outcomes. This actually does not diminish God’s sovereignty but rather enhances it. And it bridges the gap between scriptures that support both Calvinism and Arminianism.
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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I am a believer in Middle Knowledge. God knows all of our possible choices and determines all of the possible outcomes. This actually does not diminish God’s sovereignty but rather enhances it. And it bridges the gap between scriptures that support both Calvinism and Arminianism.
Election to salvation is of the "who" and not of the "what". Any perception that a Saviour, being the Saviour, not doing the saving, means that He isn't and can't be. For it to be otherwise, would make salvation of man's work, and therefore the title of Saviour, a logical contradiction in terms - the question is a binary one: does He, or does He not save - it is an all or nothing proposition, not one of degrees.
 

Shepherd

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May 11, 2022
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You are commanded, by God, to even "love your enemies". (Matthew 5:44-48)
So let me get this straight; You think that God expects you to do something more noble than He is willing to do?
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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You are commanded, by God, to even "love your enemies". (Matthew 5:44-48)
So let me get this straight; You think that God expects you to do something more noble than He is willing to do?
You believe that love to consist of what, and that enemy whom?
 

JohnDB

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Jan 16, 2021
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Be warned it is not wise to speak for God on whom he has chosen. You are seeing the present he sees past present and future your puffing yourself up and deciding yourself who he has chosen.

Based on what you currently see you decide eternity how foolish
Wow....

Hmmmmm


Just WOW.
 

Blade

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2019
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James 2:19
King James Version


19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Test yourself, by going to the bottom link and read it. Having the Holy Spirit is one of the proofs that a person is God's elect.

https://spreadthegospel59.wordpress...s-powerful-how-do-we-receive-the-holy-spirit/
You said earlier "If you are interested in freedom from sin and how do we receive the Holy Spirit? read below. After God gave me the Holy Spirit, I found proof that TV, movies, novels, music, video games and computer games are all sins, except Christian stuff that don’t have sins like sermons and Christian music words that gives messages. I found out that in them there is lying, stealing, adultery (Matthew 5:28 looking at someone with lust is adultery), fornication which is sex before marriage, revenge, murder, jealousy, pride=self-pity, hypocrisy, using God’s name in vain as a curse word, they are all idols (breaks 2nd Commandment) because most people can’t live without them and they love them more than God and more. Just read the 10 commandments for a list."

Then here you tell someone to "test your self". Now to quote that web page who we have no clue as to who it is or what they believe. But to quote it "After God gave me the Holy Spirit, I found proof that TV, movies, watching sports (violence like football, covet their life and idols), novels, music, video games and computer games are all sins, except Christian stuff that don’t have sins like sermons and Christian music words that gives messages which are rare. "

I've heard this kind of talk before they praise themselves that they are the elect and all those others no ..well are not the elect. sovereignty of God goes out the window here. To think like what you posted.. you may be saved but you don't know Him. See He said love your enemy. That's the same love we are to love Him to love each other. To take you at only what you posted...you don't know Him, His love He has for this world. The fact He left Heaven.. took all the sin of the world..all of it. Some say they can see.. as Christ said your sin remains.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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Wow....

Hmmmmm


Just WOW.
You know there's a difference between what I've been saying and what the original poster was saying I never said that people weren't saved I said we need to rededicate ourselves to him and get serious he decided that he was the elect as family wasn't I'm trying to get everyone to come together because there isn't much time he was putting all the focus on his so-called election so I I know you and others have been gossiping about me behind the scenes but God reveals All things and in time when he activates his plan look back on everything I posted then it will all make sense
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
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I know for a fact, that am the only one in my family that is one of God's elects. After the true gospel is told to them, their fruit is revealed that they are nonelects.
God loves all people.. He suffered death for sinners.. And desires all to repent and be Redeemed.. If God hated people He would not desire this..

(2 Peter 3:9) "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."