Is faith WITHOUT works dead to GOD or Is faith WITHOUT works dead to man?

What do you think about post #116?

Thank you!
Agree.
We do not need to backload works onto salvation to make it real.

Belief in and of itself is not a work. However, preaching the precepts of the faith in God is a work, and it would be a work that proves one's faith. Just by your preaching you are not saved of course, but it merely proves that by doing that work you have some degree of faith in that which you are preaching.

So for example with the thief on the cross. He believed Jesus was the Son of God, therefore did he do a small work on the cross next to Jesus when he rebuked the malefactor on the other side of Christ (whose wicked mockery with the crowd assembled in daring Jesus to come down from the cross also is a work that proves he did not have faith in Jesus). The repentant sinner then did another small work proving his faith in asking Jesus to remember him when he goes to his Kingdom, which proves that the repentant thief has some degree of faith in Jesus and all that he taught. By that small work he did, therefore did Jesus tell him, "you shall be with me in paradise." For his small works he was not saved, but for his genuine faith in Jesus was he saved, his works of repudiation of the wicked, confession of deserving his execution for his sins, and prayer to Jesus merely proving that he had faith in Jesus.

You liked post #116?

I disagree with that post.

Works are not belief, I am not sure what @JaumeJ is really saying in that post.

Belief is being persuaded, it is a passive action but not works.

I liked that you asked me.

It would be wonderful if all who believe knew the difference between a person attmpting to work his way into the Kingdom and a person moved by the Holy Spirit to do a task, tasks, given him by the Father via the Holy Spirit.

All who believe are given works from God after he has received the GIFT of faith from the Father. You pray,works from God. You care for others, the same. You simply wait for the Lord, works and much more, however all anti works folks here cannot diswcern the differnce nor understand the true faith produces works from above.

This >>>>

The salvation in view there isn't eternal salvation from hell; the readers are already saved and eternally secure. It's salvation from receiving (temporal) judgment without mercy.

I do find often when the word "saved" is used there is a endency to default to saved from hell, when it actuality it more often means saved from physical death or saved from something "temporal" as you state.

I look and click on the poll at the top of this post and It seems like the majority of people here at CC (Christian Chat) feel that works must be accompanied with faith or GOD will see It as dead faith so then I guess the majority here on CC (Christian Chat) feel that works and believing or the same.

Lol it’s a quote from Paul written to the Roman church …he must not have understood what you are saying he preached against

“ Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:


but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:6-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s Paul’s writing to the church at rome.

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11

That’s Paul writing more about it to the Corinthians church

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:19-21

That’s pauls warning to the Galatians church

“Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; and walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:1-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s one of Paul’s warnings to the Ephesians church

It’s literally in every epistle he wrote. And when Paul explains grace and salvation it’s this

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul taught more about repentance and good works than any other apostle did but people take a sentance from a letter and try to erase what he actually said

“Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption;

but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭6:7-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

as much as people talk about “Paul’s gospel “they sure never do read or acknowledge what he taught in the content of his epistles

when he says this

“Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.”

hes saying what you do is going to be what you reap if you repent and start sowing into the spirit of God you’ll receive this

“he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. “

and then if we don’t sow to the spirit and keep walking in those fleshly ways we actually never are told “ youll
Be saved” we’re warned that if we don’t repent we’re going to perish just like Jesus said

again paul to the Roman church

“What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey;

whether of sin unto death,

or of obedience unto righteousness?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

were free to choose good over evil and will reap the harvest of our choices

“Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:

but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. ( repentance )

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:12-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there has never been a gospel preached where the people of God arent instructed by God to repent of doing evil and start doing good ultimately that’s going to be our judgement like paul taught

“Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:”

“but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;”

we can repent now but not everyone wants to

Seems rather strange to me that James would be writing to people he believes are unsaved and never shares the Gospel message with them.

Someday, hopefully soon this false doctrine of Lordship Salvation will go away.

The majority of chat members here voted that faith WITHOUT works Is dead to GOD AND also dead to man.

Well it isn't.

That is back loading works onto salvation.
I wonder how many works it takes to be undead?

Well this is the thing. The question isn't about salvation, which indeed, is by the grace of God alone. The question is about works proving faith. Two separate issues.

How many and which work proves faith?

Any works will prove your faith or your lack thereof. If you go back a few pages a litany of examples from the Bible where their works both prove their faith in God as well as proving their lack of faith in God are provided for you. As well the letter of James gives many examples as well.

How would you assess those Jesus speaks concerning in Matthew 7:21-23?

With verse 24 and the remainder of the chapter.