problem related to praying in tongues

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The_Watchers_2017

The_Watchers_2017

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#121
Jun 20, 2022
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#121
In the Book of Acts, Tongues, accompanied the Infilling of the Holy Spirit because this was a Groundbreaking Moment in How God would deal with Humanity. He is now going to live inside them.

It still happens, but from the introduction of the Holy Spirit to the World displayed by Signs, being infilled with the Holy Spirit no longer requires Speaking in Tongues. In fact, it was not even a requirement for the Book of Acts. God just attached the Signs to the fact that the Holy Spirit was becoming Active on Planet Earth.


But then later on, we see Tongues playing other Roles during Paul's Ministry. And he even explains how to use them because he knows this is for Readers of his day and long into the future.

John the Beloved had that feeling for sure. I am writing today, but I also know it is for Tomorrow and beyond.
 
wolfwint

wolfwint

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#122
Feb 15, 2014
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#122
The_Watchers_2017 said:
A lot of Truth here ^


I grew up Baptist because it was how my Mother was raised and about 9 we moved out of State and located but began attending my Grandfather [Dad's side] Church he Pastored, which was one of the very first Independent Pentecostal Churches that broke away from the core thinking and idealism's that had generated since the early 1900's. And looking back then having 2 Views, it had to be real because we didn't believe Tongues was Current for that Day. I think it helps me explain things now. as a Baptist, we did not believe God gave us certain Feelings in how He was trying to Communicate with us better. as a Pentecostal Baptist, this is what I've Learned:

When someone see's someone suffering and in need and suddenly you FEEL [from God] you should give money, buy food, offer help.

When someone is in Church and not Saved when God begins dealing with them and they FEEL [from God] they need to Submit themselves unto Him so they run to the Altar and Pray receiving God into them.

When I am praying and suddenly Tongues happens, I FELT [from God] a stirring inside me before those words I know not what I Speak happens.


Discernment is also similar.
Someone lies to you, but you don't know anything about the story they're telling you to know if they're lying or being truthful. But you have this FEELING [from God] they are lying. Then later on you learn they WERE indeed lying.

Discernment also works other ways for me, but I can always FEEL [from God] first before doing anything towards the issue/problem.

God is rather consistent in how He communicates to us.

That STILL SMALL VOICE is also a FEELING [from God] we get that can be Applied to every Example ^ I just mentioned and more.
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I know that God gives understandings and guidance through that what you call "feelings" . When I became a follower of Christ, i had minimal church knowledge and was open for everything. I met people from sechs and also people who cursed me, because I dont believed there teachings. Always it was a " feeling " in me that there teachings were wrong. I had friends which were pentecostals who tryed to convince me
that I need the baptism of the Holy Spirit and the gift of speaking in tounges for to grow spiritual. But in this case I could not trust them. And I found also no scripture which supports their teaching.
What I found in scripture is that obidience and trust in the word of God is s key for to grow spiritual. In end of the eighties also much charismatic teachings came in the german churches. And I knew churches which are destroyed from them. The build groups in the church and meant they are better and more spiritual then the others. They opposed behind the back of the Pastor against Him. Finaly the church was Splited and the group left the church. Many years later some of this people came to the Pastor for to ask apologize.
Today I see that charismatic teachings are everywhere
The_Watchers_2017 said:
12,000 male virgins from each Tribe of Israel totaling 144,000 [144k]
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So I would say, it is not necessary that the Holy Spirit is there during the tribulation time to protect. God could do it through his angels too. It could also be like it was before pentacost.
My bible school teacher taught us that about the question about the future (eschatology)it is not worth to argue.
 
O

OLDMANBORNAGAIN

Guest
#123
#123
Beckie said:
I do not believe you are ignorant in this matter not one bit :)
I have seen way too much abuse of what we call tongues. Acts 2 : 4 is pushed over and over yet where is Acts 2: 3? My most honest answer to your question is I do not know. I have a family of God loving Bible reading Pentecostals a few generations deep. Also know tongues is way to far pushed . THe AofG pushes it to the point they make it unnatural. ( i say AofG because that is what i know) To me if it is from God the push would not be necessary. In Acts Peter was not pushed to by group members to preach to the crowd . His words flowed from God. And they heard in their own language! Praise God.
Growing up a Pentecostal (PK) tongues was a normal part of life. Habit ? i really dont know .Should the practice go the way of snake handlers , i dont know. I looked up a few things when i first got my computer one was 'heavenly language' could not find it. Much understanding change from my first 35-40 years to the last 35 . Seeing so much fakery growning up like good ol A.A. Allen. Watching the tongue talkers on TV pressuring viewers for money... Knowing my Grandmother saw the 'Back' Tent at one of the faith healers meettings. Other Grandma would often say so & so is not saved they do not have tongues. God tells us clearly other gifts are more important 1 Corinthians .
I know longer speak in tongues but for my family i Hold to this 'cherry picked' verse 1Co_14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
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@Beckie Thank so much for this, dear sister in Christ.

Douglas
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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#125
Jul 18, 2017
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#125
ResidentAlien said:
Tongues was for a specific time and place as were other miraculous signs.
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What most people forget is that tongues were a SIGN for unbelieving Jews! Not for Gentiles: In the Law [the OT] it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people [the Jews]; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. (1 Cor 14:21,22)

Where in the Law is it written? It is written here: For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. (Isa 28:11,12)

So God already knew that in spite of this miraculous speaking in foreign languages (Acts 2) the majority of Jews would not be converted. Hence Israel was judged and went into exile.

This was a sign that the Gospel had divine authority and as a result the apostles and their companions were speaking foreign languages supernaturally. This sign was meant to bring about the conversion of unbelieving Jews. Now on the day of Pentecost, there could easily have been 30,000 Jews from all over the Roman empire gathered in Jerusalem. But only about 3,000 were saved. But all should have been saved, and since some mocked the apostles it would seem that that was a rejection of both tongues and the Gospel.

In Corinth Paul was addressing the ABUSE of tongues. But this aspect rarely gets the attention it deserves (and now tongues are being abused again). And tongues are not mentioned in any other epistle. So for almost 2,000 years tongues were not an issue in the churches (other than when the Montanists began speaking in ecstatic utterances).
 
E

Edify

Well-known member
#126
Jan 27, 2021
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#126
wolfwint said:
Well praying and singing with my voice, of course.


Well, I know that there are huge differences between even only pentecostals and for shure in compare with charismatic teachings.
But what is common is the teaching about the gift of speaking in tongues. All these groups emphesises, that this gift is coming as sign, that someone is baptised with the Holy Spirit. All people I met in my life from pentecostal or charismatic background, told me that I miss something, if I have not the gift of speaking in tounges and the baptising with the Holy Spirit.
And in opposit to the scripture, they claim that all believers can have this gift.

I agree with you that there is no Single church on this world which is 100% right there teaching. But many believe they are.

I dont judge anybody. I just try compare the man made teachings with that what the bible teaches. There is nothing wrong what that. If you can proof me from the bible that speaking in tongues is for all believers. I am ready to change my mind.
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1Cor 12:4 There are different gifts, but the same Spirit. 5There are different ministries, but the same Lord. 6There are different ways of working, but the same God works all things in all people. 7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in various tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, who apportions them to each one as He determines.

Just as it's determined by God to those baptized in the Holy Spirit who receives which gift & how many, not a single christian can determine who can't/don't have them.
It's not our place or right to say who does or that God stopped doing it, esp. since the canon doesn't have a single verse that says God stopped. It's for the whole church.

We DO have Acts 2 that fulfills prophecy that God will pour His Spirit on all saved people. But, sadly, people excuse it away instead of having faith in God to do what He said He would do.
 
E

Edify

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Jan 27, 2021
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#127
Nehemiah6 said:
What most people forget is that tongues were a SIGN for unbelieving Jews! Not for Gentiles:
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The Bible doesn't say Jews anywhere.
English Standard Version
Thus tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for believers.
King James Bible
Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
New American Standard Bible
So then, tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy is not for unbelievers, but for those who believe.
Nehemiah6 said:
In Corinth Paul was addressing the ABUSE of tongues. But this aspect rarely gets the attention it deserves (and now tongues are being abused again). And tongues are not mentioned in any other epistle. So for almost 2,000 years tongues were not an issue in the churches (other than when the Montanists began speaking in ecstatic utterances).
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I don't know HOW you can judge such a thing when you weren't there or found 2000 years worth of books to say so!
 
Bob-Carabbio

Bob-Carabbio

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Jun 24, 2020
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#129
TheLearner said:
problem related to praying in tongues

Matthew 6:6
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Matt 26:36
Then Jesus came with them to a garden called Gethsemane, and he said to his disciples: "Sit down here while I go and pray yonder."

Praying like in Pentecostal / Charismatic Churches violates the teaching of Jesus above.
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So you're teaching is that: THERE SHOULD NEVER BE CORPORATE PRAYER in the Church.

DID I MISS ANYTHING??
 
Evmur

Evmur

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Feb 28, 2021
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#131
Locoponydirtman said:
I didnt say that, imply that, or give any reason in what I wrote that would lead one to think that is a question, reasonable to ask.
I can only assume you are either intending to provoke me, which would be highly unchristian, and futile. (I dont have feelings about the stuff said here). Or that you have no useful reading comprehension skills. Being the lovingbperson I am, i will assume the best of you and think maybe its just too early for you and you need some time to gather your thoughts.
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...no feelings eh?

I'm glad you are a loving person or I would be tempted to believe you were spitting nails at me :):giggle:
 
N

Niki7

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#132
#132
Nehemiah6 said:
What most people forget is that tongues were a SIGN for unbelieving Jews! Not for Gentiles: In the Law [the OT] it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people [the Jews]; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. (1 Cor 14:21,22)
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That is such an old worn out excuse.

The problem with that thesis, is that tongues are used in the church by believers FOR believers. Don't quote anything from I Corinthians if you just ignore the fact that if out loud, they should be interpreted or just don't pray out loud. Also, they are for the building up of the individual BELIEVER.

The issue is cessationists glibly dismissing all that is written about the gift of tongues.

You do no service to anyone and you hurt yourself as well by the dismissal of what you have decided you will ignore in scripture.
 
N

Niki7

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#133
#133
Nehemiah6 said:
In Corinth Paul was addressing the ABUSE of tongues. But this aspect rarely gets the attention it deserves (and now tongues are being abused again). And tongues are not mentioned in any other epistle. So for almost 2,000 years tongues were not an issue in the churches (other than when the Montanists began speaking in ecstatic utterances).
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That is simply not so. The 'aspect' of abuse is in wide circulation today and frankly, those who ignore the proper use of tongues, bear the burden of turning off so many people and causing the gifts to be frowned upon.

That, is the other side of the coin.
 
N

Niki7

Guest
#134
#134
Bob-Carabbio said:
So you're teaching is that: THERE SHOULD NEVER BE CORPORATE PRAYER in the Church.

DID I MISS ANYTHING??
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I brought that up on page one. What the op is supposedly enlightening us all upon, is a non sequitur. Interesting how the cessationist crowd just ignores that aspect of this op as well.

I'm glad you see that too. It emphasizes just how much some people will go to actual dumb remarks in order to try and negate certain gifts of the Spirit.
 
hornetguy

hornetguy

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Jan 18, 2016
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VARob said:
Every Christian has the ability to speak in tongues (1 Cor 12:7), and God would like every Christian to do it (1 Cor 14:5).
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Sorry... have to correct this... every Christian does NOT have the ability to speak in tongues, unless the Spirit decides he/she needs that gift. That verse says that all Christians will receive "A" manifestation of the Spirit, then it goes on to clarify... one Christian will receive the gift of prophesy, another will receive the gift of knowledge, another one, miracles, etc.... NOWHERE does it say that every believer will have all the manifestations. It goes directly against the idea that the church is a body, and each member has its own part to play... a hand is not a foot, an ear is not a leg, etc....

Also, God does not wish we all spoke in tongues.... PAUL wished that.... he specifically said "I" wish you all spoke in tongues..... you are being a little too loose with your comprehension of what the word actually says. While Paul was writing with the inspiration of the Spirit, there were a few times when he stated basically that "this is my opinion only".....
 
V

VARob

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#136
Dec 21, 2020
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#136
hornetguy said:
Sorry... have to correct this... every Christian does NOT have the ability to speak in tongues, unless the Spirit decides he/she needs that gift. That verse says that all Christians will receive "A" manifestation of the Spirit, then it goes on to clarify... one Christian will receive the gift of prophesy, another will receive the gift of knowledge, another one, miracles, etc.... NOWHERE does it say that every believer will have all the manifestations. It goes directly against the idea that the church is a body, and each member has its own part to play... a hand is not a foot, an ear is not a leg, etc....
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Thanks for your opinion.

No place in the Bible says that "all Christians will receive 'A' manifestation of the Spirit."

In the church, the person who speaks in tongues is to be the one to interpret.

1 Cor 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

1 Cor 14:13Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

If what you claim is true, that Christians only get one manifestation, that would not be possible.

Also, God does not wish we all spoke in tongues.... PAUL wished that.... he specifically said "I" wish you all spoke in tongues..... you are being a little too loose with your comprehension of what the word actually says. While Paul was writing with the inspiration of the Spirit, there were a few times when he stated basically that "this is my opinion only".....
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Paul did not say that it was his opinion that he wanted all Christians to speak in tongues.

He also said this:

1 Cor 14:
23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:

It's pointless to argue about it. People are going to see things the way they want.
 
E

Edify

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#137
I would wish that every christian would have the baptism in the Holy Spirit like Peter said in Acts 2. My heart is sorrowful that God's people can do so much more by the Spirit's giftings than they are. Plus, who knows how God will judge that?
 
E

Edify

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#138
VARob said:
No place in the Bible says that "all Christians will receive 'A' manifestation of the Spirit."
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Acts 2:17 “‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares,
wthat I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh,
and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
and your young men shall see visions,
and your old men shall dream dreams;
18 even on my male servants and female servants
in those days I will pour out my Spirit, and they shall prophesy.

Yes, there is.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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Jul 18, 2017
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#140
Edify said:
1 Corinthians 14:22 is NT doctrine. Sorry friend, this is not my problem.
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Well since that is an actual quotation from the OT it is definitely your problem. "This people" is a reference to Israel, not Gentiles. Tongues -- as seen in Acts 2 -- was a sign to unbelieving Jews. And it is the apostles and their companions who spoke in tongues (languages). Not one of the 3,000 who were saved are recorded as having spoken in tongues.
 
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