Works of the Law

I am very interested in what you have to say.

I do not want to split hairs.

It is just that I have some experience in understanding that many folk. Misunderstand the gospel of Jesus Christ. This problem has it's roots throughout church history.

Are Christians under grace and under the law also?

Dino, I can't talk you into anything you are opposed to hearing. So I'll appeal to your sensibilities. You have a sin your life, a sin you have struggled with since you became a believer. You try your best to keep from committing this sin, but sometimes you fall. Are you telling me, God never punishes you when you commit that sin?

You are simply looking for an argument.
Understand this about me.....If you want to engage in a constructive conversation, one which may help someone who seeks God, to find their way...that's a discussion in which I will engage. That's why I am here. I am not here to engage in arguments, fueled by what anyone can read on Google.

It's not an argument we are having.

Paul instructed the letters he wrote to be passed between the churches.

Colossians 4:16
When this letter is read among you, have it also read in the church of the Laodiceans; and you, for your part, read my letter that is coming from Laodicea.

In a mere few years, all of Paul's letters were in circulation across the churches.

Your already on the defensive.

You have not even made a doctrinal claim.

Relax, enjoy the robust debate.

Remember, virtually everyone has holes in their doctrine.

They misunderstand the Lords Gospel because they simply can't see it. They don't see it, because they believe in a doctrine contrary to the one Jesus taught...so God has made blind to his Truth. They do not seek their answers from God, they seek their answers in those Bible passages, which by themselves, can be interpreted to say whatever they want them to say.
Pauls epistles for example, by themselves, can be interpreted to say whatever men want them to say. Look at all the doctrines men follow as witness to this fact. One way, but there are many doctrines for men to choose to follow.

Notice...that everyone who argues with me, or others who teach what Jesus taught, they only use the words of Paul. And they never provide you with a witnesses in the bible, which can corroborate what they believe is the context of Pauls teachings. When everyone knows Pauls cardinal rule about witnesses to what someone says. Paul taught this so people couldn't use his words against the word of Jesus Christ. Which the majority of churches do.

As to your question...which I will answer as well as I possibly can.
The Gospel of Christ is like a trail of breadcrumbs...which when followed, leads us to the truth, and learn....What we must do to be saved". This is why no one in the bible can give a comprehensive answer to this very question. We must follow Jesus, through the Holy Spirit, to find the answer. And when we do, then we shall know the way.

Most folks take the first breadcrumb, and never look for the second one believing they have been saved. Many people will die without ever looking for the second crumb, because they are turned away from the Holy Spirit by the false doctrines. Ironically...it's the false doctrine which leads us to that first crumb and then immediately whisk us away from the truth.

What is the First breadcrumb?
To Repent!!
Which is why you continue to see the word repeated throughout the bible. Jesus called it "The First Works" in (Revelation 2:5).
You see, though all believers have tried to repent, many don't do the Works needed to repent. Because many simply don't know how to repent because they decided, in complete ignorance, against being taught by God...deferring those duties to the teachings of men.
What are the First Works which Jesus talks about?
Confession of sin which is the active part of repenting.
Why do we need to confess our sin?
Though many do not know it, When we sin, that sin must be confessed.
Why?
Because Unconfessed sin is unforgiven sin.
Why must sin be forgiven?
Because sin separates us from God, (Isaiah 59:2) and until our sin is forgiven, we will walk in darkness due to that separation, because God is our light In the darkness.
So why do we need to be in the light?
Because when we are in the light, we can see what we can not see when we walk in the darkness.
What happens when we are in the light?
You can see the evil in the world, through which Satan can tempt those who walk in the darkness. If you can't recognize sin, it's very difficult to turn away from what you can not see.

But these are nothing but words..whether they come from Christ, his disciples or from me....if there is no action taken they remain powerless and you will never see the Truth in our words.
So...I offer you the second crumb....Confess your sins before God, when you sin,....and watch how the light opens your eyes!!
Test us...prove it to yourself, then we can talk about that third crumb.

The definition of a disagreement is an argument. I looked that up on Google 🤔.

But even if what you say is True....Do you really believe God wanted us to get our information from a self appointed Catholic Priest in Rome?

Oh...believe me, I'm relaxed.
I was busy answering your question, bound by my promise to you, while drinking a Delicious cup of coffee.
Made Using freshly ground espresso beans...pressed through an AeroPress, using the Prismo cap.
I love things to be simple.

More baloney from Goliath. So here are the actual words of Christ which refute your heresy of salvation by works: Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? (John 11:25,26). This is only one of dozens of similar verses.

Now where did Jesus include "good works" and "works of the Law" in this statement?????

I totally disagree with this opinion that this Scripture is saying that Repentance is 'the first work"... I think that you're reading into it something that isn't there. (Many commentaries also disagree with your opinion, as well as bible translations that add punctuation).

Rev. 2:5(ESV) Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.

Notice how in the ESV they have a comma after "repent" then another comma as well as the word "and". This shows that there is a separation of thought. Jesus is saying first repent, and then... "do the works you did at first." Not that Repentance is the "first works" that you're claiming.

Now I know that you don't want an argument... which seems by the way, any opposition with your opinion? (Not with you, but with your opinion). And I'll respect that after this. However, since you seem to have placed yourself as our "teacher", I would hope that you understand that some of us prefer teachers that actually know what they're talking about and can articulate their information well. You might call it "hair-splitting" but I appreciate attention to detail.

I don't think that you are qualified to teach.

Okay

That's telling me off...

It's about time.

The law of God defines sin. Sin is the transgression of the law.
God's law is what defined sin in the beginning, what defines sin today and what will define sin in the future. GOD'S LAW is for our good, for our protection, our safety, and peace.
Rom 7: 12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

The result of sin is death (pain and suffering) and seperation from God. But Jesus came to pay our debt and connect us with God.
Rom 7: 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

Through Jesus we have pardoned and we have been promised His power to be conquerors today.

It only takes one sin
Sin = death.
All have sinned so all of mankind need salvation.

Salvation is a free gift and we can not do anything to save ourselves, we can't add to the gift so no boasting on our part.

Mat 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

These people believed in Jesus and even done many works in Jesus's name but they were not saved.
I believe it is 100% grace but i also believe that Jesus wants to transform us, which involves writting His law on our hearts.

Christians are under grace, and they use GOD'S GRACE to obey the law.
We don't receive grace to continue in sin. We don't serve sin and Jesus at the same time.

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

We have been freed from the condemnation of the law. This gift of forgiveness shouldn't be used as an excuse to return to sin.

Mat 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Was this because they were not believing on Jesus alone, but rather their works, to achieve salvation? Notice when Jesus tells them He never knew them, these don't mention their repentence/belief on Jesus and His promise to save all who call on Him, but rather the works they did in His name?

By grace we are saved.
Are christians given this grace in vain?

1Co 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

Receive not the grace of God in vain.

2Co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

You are exactly right. John 17:3 says eternal life is knowing God and Christ. When He says I never knew you, He was saying there was no salvation or life in them. Their confidence was in what they had done, not what He had done on their behalf.