Works of the Law

[Inquisitor]

Yes I am making that claim and I have the evidence to back it up. But that is for another day and another time.

You did not reply to the other points I made?

 

[Goliath]

I think that Paul taught that because it's the Gospel message that Jesus established.

Can you show me where Jesus established this teaching in his Gospel? "Not by Works, but by Grace"...as it os being taught in the church today?

 

[Goliath]

Provision has been made to save all but we need to accept by faith the gift.
Every case is judged by Jesus. Everyone must stand before the judgement seat and with Christ's righteousness we are saved without we are lost.

Love comes first. Without a love for Jesus our motive to obey would be wrong.

Love comes by spending time with Him.

Love does not make the law void.

If this is true, why would Paul teach that we must Work out our own Salvation?
(Philippians 2:12)
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

 

[Goliath]

Yes David wins ....
Psa 119:44 So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever. 45 And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts.
Psa 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.
Psa 1:2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
Psa 40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
Psa 119:34 Give me understanding, and I shall keep thy law; yea, I shall observe it with my whole heart.
Psa 119:92 Unless thy law had been my delights, I should then have perished in mine affliction.
Psa 119:174 I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law is my delight.
Psa 37:30 The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment. 31 The law of his God is in his heart; none of his steps shall slide.

David wins because He loved the ways and laws of God.

 

[Goliath]

And did anyone notice how David felt before God when he acted immorally?
Why did David feel this way?...It was because he Loved God, and God loved him.

 

[Goliath]

The reason...
Paul taught what he did about the Law, because the Jews never really grasped....why God had given them the Law. Paul used Abraham as his example, but the answer is in understanding why God never gave Noah, Abraham, Isaac nor Jacob, the same Laws...he had given to Abrahams children.
That's right....many do not realize it, but all these men were given Laws to follow. God commanded each one of these men to do something. The things God told to do...were Gods commandments.
(Genesis 26:5) Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

But Paul says...Abraham was not under the Law. This is true, but Paul was talking about the Ten Commandments. These men did not need to be given these moral Laws of God, because they loved him and because they loved him, they were already written on their hearts. Obviously...there were very few men like Noah, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob...else they would also be in the Bible. But why did God give Moses the Moral Law??

Well we must remember, the Children of Abraham were enslaved in Egypt for over 400 years. So these generations of children, did not even know God. And because they did not know God, they did not love God as their Father Abraham did. Read about their actions right out of the gate, immediately after they left Egypt. These folks couldn't even follow the simplest of Gods commandments. They were a very disobedient lot to be sure. So they needed discipline, discipline there forefathers did not require.
So how do you discipline the the disobedient?
You must exact punish for disobedience, for breaking the rules.
But what if there are no rules, no rules written on their hearts as there were with their forefathers?
This is why God put them under the Law of Moses. God had given their Forefathers commandments to keep, but they were never Under The Law.

outta time...talk more tomorrow

Gotta go...

I'll finish this lesson now that I have no further questions from anyone. But again...feel free to take me down. I want to challenge you folks who disagree with me...with what the bible says...not your teachers.
I also want to thank you all for having a mature discussion with me and with others.

Bottom line folks....
Paul was merely teaching those who were under the Law of Moses, the difference between the covenant Moses brought them, and one Jesus brought. And the covenant Jesus brought us was much like the ones God had made with...Abraham, Isaac, Jacob. It is based on our Love for God, as it was with the covenants he made with these men.

God did not arbitrarily pick these men. No,...God provided these men with all of their needs and they loved God for it, they were simply thankful for what God had given them. And they showed their love for God, by trying not to sin, because sin.... is against God. God saw they loved him, and that's why they stood above all other men and grew in his Gods Grace. And that's why God did not put these men under the Law. But those who came out of Egypt...Now that was a different story altogether. God had basically abandoned them for over 400 years....so they did not know God and everyone who had...had died by the time they left Egypt.

So the Law of Moses was designed to deal with the Children of Abraham....like small children who acted like children and needed to learn simple obedience to God. Now please...look at who Paul's teachings, regarding the Law of Moses,... were being directed. It was not the Gentiles, but the Jews who had been under the Law of Moses...since the day Moses received it.
Remember...God never changes. God doesn't change for us as many seem to believe, rather his covenant is designed so we will change for him. From slave to sin...to a slave to righteousness.

What did the God of Abraham, Isaac and Joseph, the same God we worship today..... say to the Jews?
(Exodus 16:28)
And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?
And the results??
(Exodus 20:6) And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Gods covenants may change....but his requirement in them regarding sin...do not.

 

[Ted01]

Can you show me where Jesus established this teaching in his Gospel? "Not by Works, but by Grace"...as it os being taught in the church today?

Lol... your vagueness and presupposition is entertaining!

"... Jesus established this teaching in his Gospel?" ".as it (i)s being taught in the church today?"

- "this" teaching? What teaching? I mentioned no specific teaching, other than that God shows us grace by giving us Salvation and peace by believing on Jesus as Saviour and Lord.

- "being taught in the church today?" What's being taught? What church are you referring to?

You seem to be making generalized statements and then directing them at individuals... idk?
I do know of the Accuser... and folks that adopt His style of "teaching/preaching"... I ain't into it. lol

 

[Goliath]

Thought this was interesting about how a teacher, well know for teaching that we are not under Gods Law....Used that very Law to his advantage to stay in the pulpit.
That man...Charles Stanley

Part of his Bio...
Stanley's wife of more than 40 years, Anna J. Stanley, filed for divorce on June 22, 1993, following their separation in spring of 1992. The two of them agreed that Anna would amend the lawsuit to seek a legal separation instead ("separate maintenance"), while seeking reconciliation. She again filed for divorce on March 20, 1995. The Moody Radio Network station in Atlanta (then-WAFS) took Stanley's daily broadcast off the air during that time, as managers concluded that there was no sign of reconciliation.[citation needed] The Stanleys were legally separated at the time that divorce papers were filed for the last time on February 16, 2000. A judge signed the final divorce decree on May 11, 2000.[18][19][verification needed]

Their divorce caused a minor controversy in the Southern Baptist Convention. The matter was complicated by reports that Stanley had said he would resign as pastor if he got divorced. At the time of their separation, he said that he did not believe that it would result in divorce; however after he was divorced, the members of his church overwhelmingly voted to keep him on as pastor. According to First Baptist Atlanta's bylaws, Stanley was allowed to remain as pastor as long as he did not remarry.[20][verification needed] Anna Stanley died on November 10, 2014

 

[Goliath]

Lol... your vagueness and presupposition is entertaining!

"... Jesus established this teaching in his Gospel?" ".as it (i)s being taught in the church today?"

- "this" teaching? What teaching? I mentioned no specific teaching, other than that God shows us grace by giving us Salvation and peace by believing on Jesus as Saviour and Lord.

- "being taught in the church today?" What's being taught? What church are you referring to?

You seem to be making generalized statements and then directing them at individuals... idk?
I do know of the Accuser... and folks that adopt His style of "teaching/preaching"... I ain't into it. lol

Okay?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I think that Paul taught that because it's the Gospel message that Jesus established.

Jesus may have never expressly talked on Salvation by Grace, but that seems well implied that it's by God's grace that we are saved by believing on His son. (I can't think of a better word for it?)

amen that’s exactly it paul is describing how the gospel works in us through grace and faith

“And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul’s literally saying the same thing as this

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s where Paul’s language comes from things like that belief in Jesus is salvstion by grace and through faith the gospel is full of grace and faith we just have to hear and accept it as truth rather than letting people explain there’s a different gospel that’s for us that isn’t the same gospel given by the lord for salvation

a anyone who was to learn and believe the gospel wrotten on the Bible would actually understand what it means to be saved by grace through faith

paul is just a witness of Jesus and the one and only gospel when he says things like the gospel of grace he is describing an element of how the gospel effectively saves a soul that believes

 

[Evmur]

And that's Exactly why Jesus taught the Law of Grace.
What is the law of Grace?
Its a Law which

I'm sorry to tell you this, but if you are a follower of Jesus Christ....you are also under the Law of Christ...He is your Lord and you serve him, he does not serve you.

Wrong x 1, 000 He came to serve ME, yes this is what prideful flesh rebels against.

He found me when I was lost, lonely and afraid on the mountainside, caught in the briar and hearkening the wolf howling nearby. He put me upon His shoulders and carried me home rejoicing .... and He's been carrying me ever since.

all I did was submit and allowed Him.

All who know Him after this fashion loves Him and will not bear to be separated from Him ever again.

 

[TMS]

If the law is not valid today, why did Christ need to die?
What defines sin today?
Is there a law that defines sin in heaven? Will sin be defined by a law on the new Earth?

What law defines sin today?
Remember God does not change, and no law = no sin = no need for grace.

 

[Nehemiah6]

If the law is not valid today, why did Christ need to die?

Are you seriously confused regarding the purpose of the Law of Moses vs the finished work of Christ?

 

[Dino246]

If this is true, why does God discipline those he loves when they sin?? Isn't disciple punishment??
(Hebrews 12:4-11)

No; discipline is a correction to an incorrect action. God doesn't "punish" His kids; He poured out the punishment on Jesus at the cross. God uses unpleasant circumstances to bring about positive change.

 

[NotmebutHim]

Galatians 3

 

[gb9]

Galatians 3

all the Law pushers act as if Galatians does not exist.

but, many of them do not think Paul's letters are authoritative Scripture...

 

[Inquisitor]

If the law is not valid today, why did Christ need to die?
What defines sin today?
Is there a law that defines sin in heaven? Will sin be defined by a law on the new Earth?

What law defines sin today?
Remember God does not change, and no law = no sin = no need for grace.

How you treat others is the hallmark of love.

Sin ultimately, is rejecting Jesus Christ.

Your destiny is not based on you level of sin, never was.

Your destiny is a free gift of eternal life to those that believe in Jesus Christ.

There are no holy men in Christianity, just forgiven sinners. That's why our salvation is by grace and nothing else.

 

[Inquisitor]

Can you show me where Jesus established this teaching in his Gospel? "Not by Works, but by Grace"...as it os being taught in the church today?

When Jesus gave His life for us on the cross. Shed His blood, the perfect sacrifice for our atonement. That is grace and Jesus displayed God's grace to us in everything He did.

That's what the apostles realized, God's grace poured out for a rebellious and evil people.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Can you show me where Jesus established this teaching in his Gospel? "Not by Works, but by Grace"...as it is being taught in the church today?

Are you serious in your inquiries or something else? So here the the passage which should settle this matter, so please pay close attention: Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3:4-7)

 

[Goliath]

Wrong x 1, 000 He came to serve ME,

Well you are the first to admit it, but many believers, like you, see Jesus Christ as their servant, not as their 'Lord.