Any Post or Non-Tribbers in Here?

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T

TheDivineWatermark

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GaryA said:
The 1290/1335 days at the end of Daniel 12 are referring to the time it took to "cleanse the temple" and "get it back into operation" after it was "polluted" in 167 B.C.

There is nothing about it that is future to us.
Click to expand...
When did the guy in Daniel 11:40-45 exist on the earth, according to your viewpoint (which you'd said you believe the "break" in that chpt occurs at v.40 [rather than at v.36, my view]):
167bc?
70ad-ish?
future to us yet?
Other?




[My view is that 12:1's "at that time" connects back to the [basic] time-frame spoken of in the latter parts of chpt 11 (and vv.6-7 connect with that--where it says, "how long to the end of these wonders?"); And that's besides the facts that Dan12:1-4 is speaking to that which other passages also do, such as: Ezek37:12-14,20-23... Hos5:15-6:3... Rom11:15... Isa26:13-21... etc]
 
R

ripeolive

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My brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ, do not be deceived. Do not let people tell you that they will be eating the marriage supper of the Lamb, during the tribulation, to give you a false hope that you will be raptured up before the tribulation. The church will go through the tribulation.

The word of God says:

Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. Revelation 19:7

- and it calls her wife. In this scripture:

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. Revelation 21:2

- it calls her bride. This scripture happens at the end of the 1,000 year reign of Jesus, when new Jerusalem comes down out of heaven - so it can only be then, after the wedding takes place, that the bride will be called the wife.

So when someone says they will be eating the marriage supper of the Lamb during the tribulation, right after they have been raptured up before the tribulation, and quote these scriptures to you:

Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. Revelation 19:7-9

- and tell you it means being raptured up before the tribulation because it is written right before these scriptures:

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords. And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh. Revelation 19:11-21

- know that they have been deceived, do not listen to them, and do not believe in a false hope. All of these scriptures:

And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God: For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand. And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia. And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great. And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth. Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. Revelation 19:1-9

- are talking about at the end of the 1,000 year reign of Jesus.

Glory to God.
 
GRACE_ambassador

GRACE_ambassador

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#1,143
Feb 22, 2021
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#1,143
ripeolive said:
a false hope that you will be raptured up before the tribulation. The church will go through the tribulation.
Click to expand...
No false hope of "man of sin, son of perdition and Great tribulation," But, I do have:

Blessed Hope, "looking, watching, and patiently waiting For The LORD Jesus Christ!"
(2 Thessalonians 2:1; Romans 8:18-19; Romans 8:23; Romans 8:25; 1 Corinthians 1:7; Ephesians 6:12-18; Philippians 3:20; Colossians 4:1-3; 1 Thessalonians 1:10; 1 Thessalonians 5:5-11; Titus 2:13)
+
Pre-Trib Great GRACE Departure I
+
Pre-Trib Great GRACE Departure II
 
K

KeithB

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Mar 17, 2023
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Let me start by asking do
Lori said:
I do a lot of pondering about end times and what it’ll look like for the believer. No one in my church wants to talk about it, so I thought I’d bring it here.

I have heard a few theologians proclaim that a pre-trib rapture is false doctrine, and a “lie from the pit of hell”.

I’m a pre-tribber married to a post tribber, and frankly, his arguments for a post tribulational rapture don’t hold water as far as I’m concerned. Perhaps a post-tribber from this forum can make me understand.

I have an open mind. Mostly because I fully expected the rapture to happen last year. The numbers just made sense. 2021 was 73 years since Israel became a nation, leaving 7 years for the tribulation culminating in the 80-year-old-generation mentioned in Psalms.

Regardless, God is angry, and He’s about to punish the entire planet, and I’m persuaded that ours is the generation that will see these things come to pass. With a possible (probable?) WWIII scenario, and end time prophecies jumping off the pages of the Bible, I am fascinated, excited, and a little nervous. I would love to read the thoughts of any post-tribbers on what you think it will look like for believers to go through the tribulation (specifically, the 7 trumpets, seals and bowls of The Revelation.)

Do post-tribbers believe that as God’s elect, we are subject to the same wrath as everyone else? For instance, at some point the earth will be bombarded with 75 lb hailstones (Rev 16:21). Are we subject to God’s wrath in that we will be crushed along with everyone else? Or will they not effect us? When those crazy looking locusts are tormenting the population, are we to be supernaturally protected from them?

If you’re a post-tribber (or even a non-tribber) convince me that I’m wrong. I wouldn’t want to believe God for something that’s never going to happen based on misinterpreted scripture.

Anybody?
Click to expand...
Let me ask this question first: Do you believe that the bible is the inspired word of God.



Scriptures copied from Biblehub.com

2nd Timothy 3

All Scripture is God-Breathed

10But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, 11Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. 12Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.




2nd Peter 1:19-21

19We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
 
T

TheDivineWatermark

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ripeolive said:
Do not let people tell you that they will be eating the marriage supper of the Lamb, during the tribulation, to give you a false hope that you will be raptured up before the tribulation.
Click to expand...
^ Not the "pre-trib" viewpoint. = ) The "marriage FEAST / SUPPER" is the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom age, commencing upon His "RETURN" to the earth (Rev19, etc)...

It (the marriage supper) does not occur "during the tribulation" whatsoever.








[so, what happens at the time of "our Rapture" is not "the marriage supper / feast".... iow, that is not its purpose]
 
K

KeithB

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TheDivineWatermark said:
^ Not the "pre-trib" viewpoint. = ) The "marriage FEAST / SUPPER" is the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom age, commencing upon His "RETURN" to the earth (Rev19, etc)...

It (the marriage supper) does not occur "during the tribulation" whatsoever.








[so, what happens at the time of "our Rapture" is not "the marriage supper / feast".... iow, that is not its purpose]
Click to expand...
No I am looking forward to meeting the Lord on the Mt. of Olives
 
K

KeithB

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I would like to start with 1 Thessalonians 4

The Return of the Lord

13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Verse 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

Ignorant when we thank of that word as something bad but in the Greek it means #50 in the Strong's agnoeó: to be ignorant, not to know, IE not have proper knowledge on a subject.

Paul starts off this new train of thought by saying I do not want you to be unlearned or in the dark about the subject we are going to speak on. That subject would be them which are asleep (dead)He goes on to explain why He does not want them ignorant, or uninformed. Why? He does not want us to sorrow or grieve as those that have no hope. Hope for what? Lets find out.

Verse 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. What happens when someone dies? Their flesh body goes into the ground, turned to ashes, or what ever the family has planed. You must not be ignorant, have bad information from mans thoughts, church doctrine etc. upon conception there is a flesh body formed in the womb, but there is a second body given each and everyone of us a spiritual body, a soul; so what happens to it when we die. God let us know early on in the first book of the bible.

Word count is caught me. Part 2 to follow.
 
K

KeithB

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Genesis 3

The Punishment of Mankind

16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

18Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

20And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

I want to look at verse 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

We are to have to work all the days of our lives to eat put a roof over our heads pay the bills etc till we die, and then this body returns to the dust from which it came. Whit happens to the spirit lets find out.



Ecclesiastes 12: 6&7

Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. 7. Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Verse 6. When we die is what this verse says but then what?

Verse 7. Then the dust the flesh body returns to the earth from here it came; and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

After that we have no need of the flesh body. Before you tune me out or say false doctrine remember how we started this; this is Gods word not mine. Lets go to the New Testament and see what is written.



As you can see all souls belong to God that is the good, the bad, and the ugly. They are all Gods. Lets go back to 1st Thessalonians chapter and pick it back up in verse15.

Verse 15. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

There is no way that we that are left can stop or prevent those that the Lord has taken to be with Him.

Verse 16. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

This verse throws a lot of people remember just what was said in verse 15. We can not stop those that have passed on from going to be with the Lord. Remember Genesis 3 and Ecclesiastes 12 the body returns to the ground and the soil returns to God who gave it.

Word count got me again part 3 to follow
 
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KeithB

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Acts 1

9And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Jesus was taken up to Heaven from the mount of olive and He shall return in like manor. This is what verse 16 is talking about. Can we document that?

Zechariah 14:1-9

1Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.6And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: 7But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

8And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

9And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

Verse 4 And His feet shall stand in that day(what day is that the Lords Day the millennium the. Jesus is coming back here to earth to set up his kingdom.) upon the Mt. Of Olives. What happens when His feet hit that Mt of Olives it splits. Ezekiel chapters 40-48 have more to say about the millennium than the entire book of Revelation it says their this valley will be 60 sq. miles and the Millennial Temple will be there as well as the New Jerusalem.

Lets go back to 1st Thessalonians and finish our last verses

Verse 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Who are the dead in Christ? It is not anyone that is truly saved and serving our Father. The dead in Christ are just that; those that do not know the Lord, do not follow Him, and do not Love Him.

Verse 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

[the] air.
ἀέρα (aera)
Noun - Accusative Masculine Singular
Strong's Greek 109: Air, the lower air we breathe. From aemi; 'air'.

Why will we meet the Lord in the Air so that we can join Him on the Mt of Olives for the final battle and always be with Him

Verse 18. We are to comfort one another with these words. We are to do this all the time but remember our first verse: We are to comfort one another with these words at a time of loss so that we do not grieve as those that have no hope.
Paul will have much more to say about this and I look forward to sharing it with all of you.
 
T

TheDivineWatermark

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Verse 14's "them also which sleep through Jesus will God bring with [G4862 - unioned-with] Him" are the same persons of whom the phrase "the dead IN Christ" (v.16) speaks of (i.e. members of the Church which is His body--believers / saints), as well as being the "them" in v.17, where it says, "caught up together with THEM..." (meaning, "caught up" at the same time THEY also will be caught up, that is, bodily--in perfected/glorified bodies... This isn't referring to the unsaved / lost / unbelievers)
 
K

KeithB

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Lori said:
I do a lot of pondering about end times and what it’ll look like for the believer. No one in my church wants to talk about it, so I thought I’d bring it here.

I have heard a few theologians proclaim that a pre-trib rapture is false doctrine, and a “lie from the pit of hell”.

I’m a pre-tribber married to a post tribber, and frankly, his arguments for a post tribulational rapture don’t hold water as far as I’m concerned. Perhaps a post-tribber from this forum can make me understand.

I have an open mind. Mostly because I fully expected the rapture to happen last year. The numbers just made sense. 2021 was 73 years since Israel became a nation, leaving 7 years for the tribulation culminating in the 80-year-old-generation mentioned in Psalms.

Regardless, God is angry, and He’s about to punish the entire planet, and I’m persuaded that ours is the generation that will see these things come to pass. With a possible (probable?) WWIII scenario, and end time prophecies jumping off the pages of the Bible, I am fascinated, excited, and a little nervous. I would love to read the thoughts of any post-tribbers on what you think it will look like for believers to go through the tribulation (specifically, the 7 trumpets, seals and bowls of The Revelation.)

Do post-tribbers believe that as God’s elect, we are subject to the same wrath as everyone else? For instance, at some point the earth will be bombarded with 75 lb hailstones (Rev 16:21). Are we subject to God’s wrath in that we will be crushed along with everyone else? Or will they not effect us? When those crazy looking locusts are tormenting the population, are we to be supernaturally protected from them?

If you’re a post-tribber (or even a non-tribber) convince me that I’m wrong. I wouldn’t want to believe God for something that’s never going to happen based on misinterpreted scripture.

Anybody?
Click to expand...
I started by asking the question do you believe the bible, or do you follow the doctrine of some man or church. If you are willing to follow Gods word, He makes the timing of His coming known to us. Notice I said timing not the exact moment.
With that being said let's do a bible study I wish we could do it face to face so we could discuss things, but this way works.
I would like to start with 1 Thessalonians 4


The Return of the Lord


13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


Verse 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.


Ignorant when we thank of that word as something bad but in the Greek it means #50 in the Strong's agnoeó: to be ignorant, not to know, IE not have proper knowledge on a subject.


Paul starts off this new train of thought by saying I do not want you to be unlearned or in the dark about the subject we are going to speak on. That subject would be them which are asleep (dead)He goes on to explain why He does not want them ignorant, or uninformed. Why? He does not want us to sorrow or grieve as those that have no hope. Hope for what? Lets find out.


Verse 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. What happens when someone dies? Their flesh body goes into the ground, turned to ashes, or what ever the family has planed. You must not be ignorant, have bad information from mans thoughts, church doctrine etc. upon conception there is a flesh body formed in the womb, but there is a second body given each and everyone of us a spiritual body, a soul; so what happens to it when we die. God let us know early on in the first book of the bible.


Word count is caught me. Part 2 to follow.
 
K

KeithB

Banned
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Mar 17, 2023
141
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#1,153
Lori said:
I do a lot of pondering about end times and what it’ll look like for the believer. No one in my church wants to talk about it, so I thought I’d bring it here.

I have heard a few theologians proclaim that a pre-trib rapture is false doctrine, and a “lie from the pit of hell”.

I’m a pre-tribber married to a post tribber, and frankly, his arguments for a post tribulational rapture don’t hold water as far as I’m concerned. Perhaps a post-tribber from this forum can make me understand.

I have an open mind. Mostly because I fully expected the rapture to happen last year. The numbers just made sense. 2021 was 73 years since Israel became a nation, leaving 7 years for the tribulation culminating in the 80-year-old-generation mentioned in Psalms.

Regardless, God is angry, and He’s about to punish the entire planet, and I’m persuaded that ours is the generation that will see these things come to pass. With a possible (probable?) WWIII scenario, and end time prophecies jumping off the pages of the Bible, I am fascinated, excited, and a little nervous. I would love to read the thoughts of any post-tribbers on what you think it will look like for believers to go through the tribulation (specifically, the 7 trumpets, seals and bowls of The Revelation.)

Do post-tribbers believe that as God’s elect, we are subject to the same wrath as everyone else? For instance, at some point the earth will be bombarded with 75 lb hailstones (Rev 16:21). Are we subject to God’s wrath in that we will be crushed along with everyone else? Or will they not effect us? When those crazy looking locusts are tormenting the population, are we to be supernaturally protected from them?

If you’re a post-tribber (or even a non-tribber) convince me that I’m wrong. I wouldn’t want to believe God for something that’s never going to happen based on misinterpreted scripture.

Anybody?
Click to expand...
There is a 3rd Generation the 120-year generation in Genises, the 70 t0 80-year generation did it start in 1948 or after the 6 day war when Isriel took back all their land? Again, no man knows the exact timing we can only know the season.



Part 2
Genesis 3
The Punishment of Mankind
16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
20And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

I want to look at verse 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

We are to going to have work all the days of our lives to eat put a roof over our heads pay the bills etc. till we die, and then this body returns to the dust from which it came. What happens to the spirit let's find out.

Ecclesiastes 12: 6&7
6. Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. 7. Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Verse 6. When we die is what this verse says but then what?
Verse 7. Then the dust the flesh body returns to the earth from here it came; and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
After that we have no need of the flesh body. Before you tune me out or say false doctrine remember how we started this; this is Gods word not mine. Lets go to the New Testament and see what is written.

As you can see all souls belong to God that is the good, the bad, and the ugly. They are all Gods. Lets go back to 1st Thessalonians chapter and pick it back up in verse15.

Verse 15. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
There is no way that we that are left can stop or prevent those that the Lord has taken to be with Him.

Verse 16. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
This verse throws a lot of people remember just what was said in verse 15. We can not stop those that have passed on from going to be with the Lord. Remember Genesis 3 and Ecclesiastes 12 the body returns to the ground and the soil returns to God who gave it.


Word count got me again part 3 to follow
 
GRACE_ambassador

GRACE_ambassador

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KeithB said:
no man knows the exact timing we can only know the season.
Click to expand...
Are you sure?:

Act_1:7 "And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times
or the seasons, which The Father Hath Put In His Own Power."

Just wonderin'...
 
K

KeithB

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Lori said:
I do a lot of pondering about end times and what it’ll look like for the believer. No one in my church wants to talk about it, so I thought I’d bring it here.

I have heard a few theologians proclaim that a pre-trib rapture is false doctrine, and a “lie from the pit of hell”.

I’m a pre-tribber married to a post tribber, and frankly, his arguments for a post tribulational rapture don’t hold water as far as I’m concerned. Perhaps a post-tribber from this forum can make me understand.

I have an open mind. Mostly because I fully expected the rapture to happen last year. The numbers just made sense. 2021 was 73 years since Israel became a nation, leaving 7 years for the tribulation culminating in the 80-year-old-generation mentioned in Psalms.

Regardless, God is angry, and He’s about to punish the entire planet, and I’m persuaded that ours is the generation that will see these things come to pass. With a possible (probable?) WWIII scenario, and end time prophecies jumping off the pages of the Bible, I am fascinated, excited, and a little nervous. I would love to read the thoughts of any post-tribbers on what you think it will look like for believers to go through the tribulation (specifically, the 7 trumpets, seals and bowls of The Revelation.)

Do post-tribbers believe that as God’s elect, we are subject to the same wrath as everyone else? For instance, at some point the earth will be bombarded with 75 lb hailstones (Rev 16:21). Are we subject to God’s wrath in that we will be crushed along with everyone else? Or will they not effect us? When those crazy looking locusts are tormenting the population, are we to be supernaturally protected from them?

If you’re a post-tribber (or even a non-tribber) convince me that I’m wrong. I wouldn’t want to believe God for something that’s never going to happen based on misinterpreted scripture.

Anybody?
Click to expand...
To answer your question about the
GRACE_ambassador said:
Are you sure?:

Act_1:7 "And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times
or the seasons, which The Father Hath Put In His Own Power."

Just wonderin'...
Click to expand...
We should know the times and the seasons, but God only knows the exact time. As things happen like the 2-witness showing up and we know we are within 31/2 days after they are killed Jesus will return.
 
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KeithB

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KeithB said:
To answer your question about the

We should know the times and the seasons, but God only knows the exact time. As things happen like the 2-witness showing up and we know we are within 31/2 days after they are killed Jesus will return.
Click to expand...
 
GRACE_ambassador

GRACE_ambassador

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KeithB said:
We should know the times and the seasons, but God only knows the exact time. As things happen like the 2-witness showing up and we know we are within 31/2 days after they are killed Jesus will return.
Click to expand...
Ok then. post-tribbers need to "know the times/seasons/2 witnesses/31/2 days"?

However, pre-tribbers don't, since we "won't be here" - this earth is not
"our home." We are going Home With The LORD Jesus Christ In:

Pre-Trib Great GRACE Departure I
+
Pre-Trib Great GRACE Departure II

Instead of "signs of times/seasons" we "live by faith, Not by sight" (2Co 5:7),
not looking for the Wicked man of sin, son of perdition, signs, wonders, great tribulation, But:

"looking, watching, and patiently waiting" For our Blessed Hope:

The HOLY One, The LORD Jesus Christ! Amen?​
(2 Thessalonians 2:1; Romans 8:18-19; Romans 8:23; Romans 8:25; 1 Corinthians 1:7; Ephesians 6:12-18; Philippians 3:20; Colossians 4:1-3; 1 Thessalonians 1:10; 1 Thessalonians 5:5-11; Titus 2:13)

Precious friend:

Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II).
+
RICH Blessings
 
GaryA

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TheDivineWatermark said:
(which you'd said you believe the "break" in that chpt occurs at v.40 [rather than at v.36, my view])
Click to expand...
Why do you believe there is a "break" at verse 36?

What particular/specific words/phrases in the passage cause you to come to that conclusion?
 
G

glf

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Lori said:
I do a lot of pondering about end times and what it’ll look like for the believer. No one in my church wants to talk about it, so I thought I’d bring it here.

I have heard a few theologians proclaim that a pre-trib rapture is false doctrine, and a “lie from the pit of hell”.

I’m a pre-tribber married to a post tribber, and frankly, his arguments for a post tribulational rapture don’t hold water as far as I’m concerned. Perhaps a post-tribber from this forum can make me understand.

I have an open mind. Mostly because I fully expected the rapture to happen last year. The numbers just made sense. 2021 was 73 years since Israel became a nation, leaving 7 years for the tribulation culminating in the 80-year-old-generation mentioned in Psalms.

Regardless, God is angry, and He’s about to punish the entire planet, and I’m persuaded that ours is the generation that will see these things come to pass. With a possible (probable?) WWIII scenario, and end time prophecies jumping off the pages of the Bible, I am fascinated, excited, and a little nervous. I would love to read the thoughts of any post-tribbers on what you think it will look like for believers to go through the tribulation (specifically, the 7 trumpets, seals and bowls of The Revelation.)

Do post-tribbers believe that as God’s elect, we are subject to the same wrath as everyone else? For instance, at some point the earth will be bombarded with 75 lb hailstones (Rev 16:21). Are we subject to God’s wrath in that we will be crushed along with everyone else? Or will they not effect us? When those crazy looking locusts are tormenting the population, are we to be supernaturally protected from them?

If you’re a post-tribber (or even a non-tribber) convince me that I’m wrong. I wouldn’t want to believe God for something that’s never going to happen based on misinterpreted scripture.

Anybody?
Click to expand...

I'm a mid-tribber... lol

In Lu 22 were told, Jerusalem will be trodden down of the gentiles until the times of the gentile are fulfilled.
A bit after this in the same chapter we're told, Verily I say unto you, this generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. We can expect three score and ten years or by reason of strength four score or 80 years. I take that for the length of a generation which puts the 2nd coming at 2037 and the beginning of the trib at 2030 at the latest. The kicker is, except those days be shortened there shall no flesh survive.
In 2 Thes, we're told, in vs 3) that day shall not come except there is a falling away and the man of sin be revealed. Then in vs 6-8 KJV And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that wicked be revealed whom the Lord shall consume.
Jesus gave to the Church authority over all the power of the enemy, so that the evil one is unable to reveal himself to the world until after the Church is moved out of the way in the rapture and then there is nothing to stop him.

That the end is near can be seen looking at world events coming together much as the set for an outdoor play.
Jn describes a helicopter in Rev: Giant locusts rising up from the ground with a crown on their heads (the flight blades),
a stinger on its tail (the stabilizer rotor), it makes the sound of many chariots rushing to battle, they have breastplates of iron, the faces of men (pilot and co-pilot).
Another place tells us that two prophets who can call down fire will be overcome by the anti-christ and the whole world will watch them be slain, lie dead for three days and then come back to life, probably on cable channel 666.
 
Blade

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ripeolive said:
My brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ, do not be deceived. Do not let people tell you that they will be eating the marriage supper of the Lamb, during the tribulation, to give you a false hope that you will be raptured up before the tribulation. The church will go through the tribulation.

The word of God says:

Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. Revelation 19:7

- and it calls her wife. In this scripture:

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. Revelation 21:2

- it calls her bride. This scripture happens at the end of the 1,000 year reign of Jesus, when new Jerusalem comes down out of heaven - so it can only be then, after the wedding takes place, that the bride will be called the wife.

So when someone says they will be eating the marriage supper of the Lamb during the tribulation, right after they have been raptured up before the tribulation, and quote these scriptures to you:

Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. Revelation 19:7-9

- and tell you it means being raptured up before the tribulation because it is written right before these scriptures:

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords. And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh. Revelation 19:11-21

- know that they have been deceived, do not listen to them, and do not believe in a false hope. All of these scriptures:

And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God: For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand. And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia. And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great. And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth. Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. Revelation 19:1-9

- are talking about at the end of the 1,000 year reign of Jesus.

Glory to God.
Click to expand...
Well not wroth answering since what you said is no where in the word of God or you would have posted that verse. See in truth you lied not to men but to God. Against thee and only thee do I sin and do this evil in your sight. There is no scripture for "Church will go through the great tribulation." Saying the Church will not go through the great tribulation" is a lie.

So He will come get us take us to where He is and we which remain will get caught up.. WHEN? Just be ready now.
 
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