Does God want you to take charge and tell Him what to do?

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cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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Notice in Copeland's second clip he calls to the "atmosphere." It's not difficult to figure out who he's calling upon.
Copeland is crazy as an outhouse rat. And he certainly is not a saved Christian.
What amazes me is how this nutter can draw away so many disciples to himself.

But them again.....birds of a feather.....
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
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I think we need to call this stuff exactly what it is: occult magic. It's certainly not Christianity, even though it wears a Christian mantle. People who follow this teaching don't pray to the Father in Jesus' name, they make "prayer declarations," which is nothing more than magic incantations.

Back in 2019, Kat Kerr declared that hurricane Dorian should move east and not hit the US. Of course Dorian didn't get the message. Kerr makes trips to heaven virtually every day and meets with heavenly beings. Anyone ever hear of astral projection? This is what Kerr practices. She's an occultist plain and simple; and not even a very good one at that.


And how could anyone forget Kenneth Copeland declaring COVID done and over in March 2020.


When it didn't work, he returned in December with another COVID rebuke.


This is occultism plain and simple. People who practice this stuff aren't Christian false prophets; they're not Christians at all, but are occultists in a Christian wrapper.
He just doesn't understand the difference between a sinner being a patient, and a patient being just a patient.
 

soberxp

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May 3, 2018
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The word of God healing the sinner.
The miracle healing the patient.
But we are not seeking the miracle,we seeking the word of God.
 

know1

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Aug 27, 2012
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I believe the difference is because there is alot written throughout the Bible concerning prayer.
If the verses you cite were the totality of what God has written concerning prayer, we might all believe as you. But the Bible, of course, has much more to say concerning prayer. To believe as you do, you must ignore other portions of scripture.
Perhaps it would prove helpful if you could write out a prayer that you might pray. This way, we can compare your prayer with the scripture and see how it compares.
There is a lot I would like to add here, but I don't have the time. Late start, so I will just tell you what happened to me, and what I said and did to fix the problem.
One time, years ago, I had a kidney stone attack, if I can call it that. It was terribly painful.
I endured that for about half an hour or so, when all of a sudden, an anger came over me, and while still in great pain, I spoke to the source of said pain saying, "In the name of Jesus, I command you foul stench [my name for unclean spirits], come out of me and be gone into the pit of hell, in Jesus' name." And I also said, "I speak to the source of the pain, I command you to be gone from my body, in the name of Jesus."
I repeated the commands like that for only about 2 minutes, and all of a sudden, it felt like something that was squeezing my right kidney, was gradually releasing its pressure. And in about another 2 minutes, it was completely gone.
I have another event I would like to tell you.
Again, years ago, I worked outside for just a few minutes in some cold drizzling misty type rain, and before the end of the day, I felt some cold symptoms coming on, only it felt worse than a cold. I later figured it might have been the flu. Still don't know, but that is what I thought it was.
Well, at the end of the third day, I decided I was going to get rid of that thing. I didn't seek God on it or ask Him if it was His will, I just decided I wasn't going to have it any longer.
By that time, I had a really bad headache, sore throat, all my muscles ached, and even my skin hurt. I was very tired, felt terrible, and had mucus coming out in my urine. I think that might have been a bladder infection. Don't know, as I am not a doctor.
So I started out with a prayer to God.
I said, "Father, forgive me for anything I have thought, said, or done that was offensive to you, that was sin. Wash and cleanse me, I pray, in the blood of Jesus, in Jesus' name." And I said more concerning my repentance. Then I said, "Thank you Father for forgiving me and cleansing me, according to your word."
I then went after the spirit and source of the sickness. I went at this for about an hour and a half strait, with all that was within me. That means, I was yelling and coughing while praying.
Keep in mind, the whole time, I felt miserable, was in pain, and just wanted to lay down and sleep.
And because God had given me a revelation and some experiences concerning a verse and faith, I used it for my faith.
The scriptures I used were,
Mat_13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat_25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
Mar_4:25 For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath.
Luk_8:18 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.

They all basically say the same thing, only I didn't use the part that says, " he that hath...", but the part that says, "he that hath not... Another way of saying, 'I don't have' something is, 'I reject having' said thing, because that's what faith is. This is one of Jesus' explanations of what faith is.
Peter put it this way,
Act_3:6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.

And by the way, in the above verse, Peter just used the word of faith on that man, to get him healed. It is a good example of what I did, only on a much smaller scale.
So because I didn't want the flu like symptoms, I said repeatedly things along these lines, again, with all that was within me.
"In the name of Jesus, I speak to the source of the symptoms, I speak to you foul spirit, I bind you and command you to take your filth off me. I command you to loose your hold and be gone form me, in Jesus' name."
Then I said repeatedly, "I reject you symptoms. I reject you cold. I reject you flu." I said this, because I didn't know what it was.
I continued, "I do not have a cold, I do not have the flu, for I do not receive it, and I utterly reject you."
Again, I am speaking directly to the thing, NOT to God.
After that I would say, 'Thank you Father for removing that foul stench from me, as I do not receive it, and according to your word, I thank you for removing and taking away this foul thing. For you said, that whatsoever I don't have, shall be forcefully taken from me, even that which I think I have. Thank you Jesus for delivering me. I praise you Lord, and so on.
And last, I ask my heavenly Father to heal my body, because of the damage that thing had caused.
This I did, over and over again. The repenting, I only did once at the start.
And after about an hour and a half, it felt like a lifting or easing of something removed off of me. Every symptom gradually left within a half hour, except for the mucus in my urine. That took a whole day. I think it was because it was already there and that was the only way for it to come out. But I was healed the day before, when the other symptoms left.
Why did I get delivered and healed? Because I believed the word of God over what I was feeling and did according to that which was written. I stood on the word of God, I fought the good fight of faith, I spoke to the so-called mountain, didn't doubt in my heart, but believed that what I said should come to pass, I therefore had what I said, as God watch over His word and hastened to perform it, and in that instant, I got the victory.
I have more, but I will leave it at that for now. Let me know what you think.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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There is a lot I would like to add here, but I don't have the time. Late start, so I will just tell you what happened to me, and what I said and did to fix the problem.
One time, years ago, I had a kidney stone attack, if I can call it that. It was terribly painful.
I endured that for about half an hour or so, when all of a sudden, an anger came over me, and while still in great pain, I spoke to the source of said pain saying, "In the name of Jesus, I command you foul stench [my name for unclean spirits], come out of me and be gone into the pit of hell, in Jesus' name." And I also said, "I speak to the source of the pain, I command you to be gone from my body, in the name of Jesus."
I repeated the commands like that for only about 2 minutes, and all of a sudden, it felt like something that was squeezing my right kidney, was gradually releasing its pressure. And in about another 2 minutes, it was completely gone.
I have another event I would like to tell you.
Again, years ago, I worked outside for just a few minutes in some cold drizzling misty type rain, and before the end of the day, I felt some cold symptoms coming on, only it felt worse than a cold. I later figured it might have been the flu. Still don't know, but that is what I thought it was.
Well, at the end of the third day, I decided I was going to get rid of that thing. I didn't seek God on it or ask Him if it was His will, I just decided I wasn't going to have it any longer.
By that time, I had a really bad headache, sore throat, all my muscles ached, and even my skin hurt. I was very tired, felt terrible, and had mucus coming out in my urine. I think that might have been a bladder infection. Don't know, as I am not a doctor.
So I started out with a prayer to God.
I said, "Father, forgive me for anything I have thought, said, or done that was offensive to you, that was sin. Wash and cleanse me, I pray, in the blood of Jesus, in Jesus' name." And I said more concerning my repentance. Then I said, "Thank you Father for forgiving me and cleansing me, according to your word."
I then went after the spirit and source of the sickness. I went at this for about an hour and a half strait, with all that was within me. That means, I was yelling and coughing while praying.
Keep in mind, the whole time, I felt miserable, was in pain, and just wanted to lay down and sleep.
And because God had given me a revelation and some experiences concerning a verse and faith, I used it for my faith.
The scriptures I used were,
Mat_13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat_25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
Mar_4:25 For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath.
Luk_8:18 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.

They all basically say the same thing, only I didn't use the part that says, " he that hath...", but the part that says, "he that hath not... Another way of saying, 'I don't have' something is, 'I reject having' said thing, because that's what faith is. This is one of Jesus' explanations of what faith is.
Peter put it this way,
Act_3:6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.

And by the way, in the above verse, Peter just used the word of faith on that man, to get him healed. It is a good example of what I did, only on a much smaller scale.
So because I didn't want the flu like symptoms, I said repeatedly things along these lines, again, with all that was within me.
"In the name of Jesus, I speak to the source of the symptoms, I speak to you foul spirit, I bind you and command you to take your filth off me. I command you to loose your hold and be gone form me, in Jesus' name."
Then I said repeatedly, "I reject you symptoms. I reject you cold. I reject you flu." I said this, because I didn't know what it was.
I continued, "I do not have a cold, I do not have the flu, for I do not receive it, and I utterly reject you."
Again, I am speaking directly to the thing, NOT to God.
After that I would say, 'Thank you Father for removing that foul stench from me, as I do not receive it, and according to your word, I thank you for removing and taking away this foul thing. For you said, that whatsoever I don't have, shall be forcefully taken from me, even that which I think I have. Thank you Jesus for delivering me. I praise you Lord, and so on.
And last, I ask my heavenly Father to heal my body, because of the damage that thing had caused.
This I did, over and over again. The repenting, I only did once at the start.
And after about an hour and a half, it felt like a lifting or easing of something removed off of me. Every symptom gradually left within a half hour, except for the mucus in my urine. That took a whole day. I think it was because it was already there and that was the only way for it to come out. But I was healed the day before, when the other symptoms left.
Why did I get delivered and healed? Because I believed the word of God over what I was feeling and did according to that which was written. I stood on the word of God, I fought the good fight of faith, I spoke to the so-called mountain, didn't doubt in my heart, but believed that what I said should come to pass, I therefore had what I said, as God watch over His word and hastened to perform it, and in that instant, I got the victory.
I have more, but I will leave it at that for now. Let me know what you think.
I appreciate your sharing.
My question is...why don't you pray bigger prayers. Like go to a hospital and pray for the healing of everyone? Why not get a map of the world and pray salvation and abundance for all?
Would God perform such miracles through someone?
 

Lanolin

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Dec 15, 2018
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hmm I kinda like the idea of telling my boss everything and they then do it (or approve of everything I do)

Rather than them telling ME what to do. lol
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
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I appreciate your sharing.
My question is...why don't you pray bigger prayers. Like go to a hospital and pray for the healing of everyone? Why not get a map of the world and pray salvation and abundance for all?
Would God perform such miracles through someone?
Would you mind first telling me if you saw anything wrong with my prayers, and if so, why?
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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Would you mind first telling me if you saw anything wrong with my prayers, and if so, why?
Prayers are largely an individual thing so I'm loathe to comment on another's prayer.
I will be glad to share a few things that I understand concerning prayer.
Prayer, at its most basic level, is just a conversation with God. It is to be an ongoing conversation even when not audible as we should always try to live in the presence of God.
Prayer is not about getting God on earth to do our will, but to get us into heaven to know His will.
God is Majesty. If we are to know His presence, it will be known in humility. We always approach God as one who is undeserving of an audience with Him.

There is so much more to prayer than this, but it seems a good place to start. It isn't that God won't allow some deviation from what His word says about prayer. But we worship God in both spirit and truth. God instructs us because that's how He wants things done. But He also wants us to do things wholeheartedly...with all that is within us. I see the second part in your prayers. I don't see the first.

I have no problem believing that God answered your prayers. God is good and loving and gracious and merciful. But I don't believe He did so because you commanded it. He did so, in my opinion, in spite of it.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
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Prayers are largely an individual thing so I'm loathe to comment on another's prayer.
I will be glad to share a few things that I understand concerning prayer.
Prayer, at its most basic level, is just a conversation with God. It is to be an ongoing conversation even when not audible as we should always try to live in the presence of God.
Prayer is not about getting God on earth to do our will, but to get us into heaven to know His will.
God is Majesty. If we are to know His presence, it will be known in humility. We always approach God as one who is undeserving of an audience with Him.

There is so much more to prayer than this, but it seems a good place to start. It isn't that God won't allow some deviation from what His word says about prayer. But we worship God in both spirit and truth. God instructs us because that's how He wants things done. But He also wants us to do things wholeheartedly...with all that is within us. I see the second part in your prayers. I don't see the first.

I have no problem believing that God answered your prayers. God is good and loving and gracious and merciful. But I don't believe He did so because you commanded it. He did so, in my opinion, in spite of it.
Everything I did is written in the bible. I did however miss the very first thing I did, which is that I said out loud, "I forgive and release all offenses of every person." And I did this because of what is written in Mk 11:25-26. That being, if I don't forgive others, neither will my Father forgive me. Why is that important?
Most Christians don't know this, but in order for one to be delivered or healed, they have to be forgiven of their sins that brought the curse on them in the first place. If that was the reason. There are other causes.
And one reason why Christians get sick, is because of sins they have committed, that hasn't been forgiven by God. And probably most Christians think they are forgiven of their sins and washed in the blood of Jesus, automatically, without them actually needing to repent of their sins.
Not!!!
It is written to VERBALLY CONFESS your sins, before you will be forgiven and cleansed, and that can't be done until you forgive and release others of things they did that you took offense to.

My question is...why don't you pray bigger prayers. Like go to a hospital and pray for the healing of everyone? Why not get a map of the world and pray salvation and abundance for all?
Would God perform such miracles through someone?
And to answer your question, no, I wouldn't go to a hospitals and pray for people's healing, because I already said, that is not my thing, nor have I been anointed to do so. My wife, on the other hand, does have that anointing, and she has got a number of people healed of incurable things, but she won't pray for anyone unless God directs her. As should we all.
We can't walk in the Spirit if we are not led by the Spirit of God.
And another thing. I'm sure you heard of people losing their healing before, right? This is a result of ignorance and a lack of faith on their part.
Do you know why John the baptist was sent ahead of Jesus? It was to prepare the way for His coming, was it not? And what did John do to prepare the way for Him? He go people to repent of their sins. And why did he do that? So they could be healed and delivered by Jesus.
And another thing. Even Jesus had trouble healing those who doubted or couldn't believe.

Mar 6:5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.
Mar 6:6 And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.

It is written, "According to your faith, be it done unto you."
This is a law of faith, and if your faith is in the natural, then, as they say in the south, "it ain't gonna happen".
Probably one of the greatest hinderances of people from getting their healing is not only their lack of faith, but their ignorance of the same. Most Christians are so carnally minded, that they, like doubting Thomas, can't believe unless or until they see it, and even then, many still doubt and try to rationalize or explain it away.
So no, I won't do those things unless I am told to do so or led by God, and no, it wouldn't work and God wouldn't do such miracle UNLESS He was the one directing it.
And regardless of what you think, God doesn't answer prayers in spite.
It not only would be counterintuitive, but if God refuses to answer the prayers of a double minded person, He certainly would not answer a prayer contrary to, not just His will, but also, to His word.
As I stated earlier, I have had many failures before, and I can guarantee you this much, if you are doing something wrong, God will NOT, I repeat, NOT answer your prayers.
God doesn't move when someone gets it wrong, but when they get it right.
Take for example,

Luk 8:45 And Jesus said, Who touched me? When all denied, Peter and they that were with him said, Master, the multitude throng thee and press thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?
Luk 8:46 And Jesus said, Somebody hath touched me: for I perceive that virtue is gone out of me.

There were many people trying to get their healing or deliverance by touching Jesus, but NONE of them, save the woman with the issue of blood, was healed. Only then, did Jesus perceive power going out of Him. All the others, got nothing. Why?
So no, God did not answer my prayers in spite of my attitude, or what I said, but because I both said and did all, ACCORDING TO WHAT IS WRITTEN. I followed it to the letter.
The reason why God doesn't answer most people's prayer, and why they make excuses like, 'it just wasn't the will of God', garbage, is BECAUSE THEY GOT IT WRONG. And for that matter, why didn't God answer their prayers in spite of their missing it?
As you should be able to see, such reasoning, doesn't hold up to scrutiny or even simple logic.
Reason would dictate that I and all who believe similarly, got it right, and that is why God answers and does the things I both say and ask to be done.
Have you not read in Isa_57:19 "I create the fruit of the lips"?
God never said He would watch over and hasten to perform my words, but He did say He would over His.
And are we not allowed to speak or send God's word? Is it not written, "... I will not let Your word depart from my mouth."?
Is it not written that his angels, excel in strength, do his commandments, and hearken unto the voice of, or who give voice to, or who speak forth, His word?
God's people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge, and because they fail to do what He said, NOT in spite of it.
 

Lanolin

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Dec 15, 2018
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I had a co-worker who attempted to tell our boss what her duties were to be. Key word being had..;):giggle:
my old boss didnt even know what I did in my job lol
she had this idea that I would just sit around waiting to be told what to do as if I didnt already know what to do or how to do my own job.

?! some bosses are bit clueless. But when you tell them what you actually do, they say they dont need a lecture or have time to deal with all your concerns. But if you dont say anything they will say you didnt tell them. Thing is I cant tell someone EVERY SINGLE thing that I do unless their job is to sit and watch me do my job all day.
 

know1

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Aug 27, 2012
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The New Post toolbar is nt working for me in this post, so I will just post any link.

The word “Command” in Strong’s Concordance:
You decide, does it mean commit?
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/tetzavvuni_6680.htm
The word, commit, is not in Strong's definition.
And if the devil can command God's hand to move against Job, then how much more his children?
And consider this, when someone commands and casts out a demonic spirit from a person, who is actually driving the thing out, you or the hand of God?
So since we know it's not you but God who did the driving or casting out, then it would stand to reason that you commanded the hand of God to move on your behalf, in the name of Jesus.
So in light of these facts, Isaiah 45:11 can certainly be interpreted as, concerning the works of my hand, command ye me.
So there are certain situations and circumstances where we are indeed commanding God to do things because he is the one doing the work we command to be done.
 

Underwhosewings

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Jan 19, 2023
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Australia
The word, commit, is not in Strong's definition.
And if the devil can command God's hand to move against Job, then how much more his children?
And consider this, when someone commands and casts out a demonic spirit from a person, who is actually driving the thing out, you or the hand of God?
So since we know it's not you but God who did the driving or casting out, then it would stand to reason that you commanded the hand of God to move on your behalf, in the name of Jesus.
So in light of these facts, Isaiah 45:11 can certainly be interpreted as, concerning the works of my hand, command ye me.
So there are certain situations and circumstances where we are indeed commanding God to do things because he is the one doing the work we command to be done.
Moses besought the LORD…

Exodus 32:12 KJV
Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth?
Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people.
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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Moses besought the LORD…

Exodus 32:12 KJV
Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth?
Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people.
Just to let you know......this passage (and personality attribute of Moses) is primarily why Moses is a "type" of Christ.