Ukraine the bad guy?

So Putin pulls out, do you really think the WEF and NATO are less evil?

This really has nothing to do with Hitler and Stalin.

Where are people getting this idea... "PUTIN WONT STOP IN UKRAINE!!! HE GONNA CONQUER THE WORLD!!!"

Seriously. Where does that idea come from, and where is it ever explained in a logical way? Because I hear a lot of people saying it- but not saying why they believe that. I want an answer; and not a stupid one like "because he's a DICTATOR!!!".

1) No NATO country has attacked Russia.
2) No NATO forces are on Russian soil.

Some seem to imagine that Russia is justified in waging war against Ukraine. I would like to know what nation is squeaky clean enough to point the finger at supposedly evil Ukraine. When I look at a country, my first thought is, would I like to live there? Would I prefer America to China? I've not visited China, but I know enough to say that I would rather live in America. It's far from perfect, but you can vote out the administration if you don't like it. Or can be bothered voting.

Would I prefer Russia to Ukraine? No. As has been said, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Putin has entrenched himself in power and who can dislodge him?

America has its own problems. If God is using Russia to punish Ukraine, then watch out Americans. You are no better than Ukraine. China is your nemesis. And Australia will be caught up in the conflict as well.

How many people have been assassinated or locked up for anti Trump or anti Biden rhetoric? It's against the law in Russia to criticise Putin or the war. America still has freedom of speech to some extent. There is none in Russia.

I believe Americans have lost sight of just how good they have it compared to most of the world. It pays to treasure what you have. God has a habit of taking away blessings from those who complain. It is God who made America what she is, not the wisdom and power of men. And God will remove that blessing as people reject Him. It's already happening to a degree. Hopefully events like Asbury will turn the church around.

I saw a great difference between the America I visited in 1994 and again in 2016. None of it was for good. I like America and Americans generally. I hate to see the decline.

I do think NATO is less evil. NATO was formed to resist the threat of invasion by the USSR. It was very real in the early days of the cold war. It seemed to be almost irrelevant after the USSR broke up. Note that Putin invaded Ukraine. No NATO country has attacked Russia. No NATO forces are on Russian soil. All Putin has achieved is to wake up the NATO alliance and cause Europe to rearm.

Europe's mistake was to allow Russia to annex parts of Ukraine in 2014. Putin's eventual invasion of Ukraine was inevitable. Only the endemic corruption in Russia's military stopped Russia from succeeding.

Anybody know what a "protection - intimidation racket" is? Pretty simple really.
It is scenarios like this that demand a return of Jesus and real justice.

Are you sure he didn't confuse the US government with the Mafia?

Wow looks like twitter is down. How is it working on your end?

Putin has publicly stated that he wants Russia to return to its former glory days. He has said that the collapse of the USSR was a tragedy.
“First and foremost it is worth acknowledging that the demise of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century.........." (Putin April 2005)

We don't see nations begging to join the Russian federation.

. We do see nations wanting to join the EU.

What people fear about Russia is its nuclear arsenal.

I doubt that even Putin seriously considers using nukes. It's a bluff, hoping to deter the West from resisting Russia's ambitions.

No modern military power need fear Russia now.

Examples? The much vaunted Armata tanks and IFV are not to be seen. Russian trucks suffered punctures and were unable to supply ammunition and bring troops to the front. They were supposed to have military grade tyres. They had cheap Chinese tyres that could not handle the conditions. The money for Michelin tyres mysteriously disappeared. Their only aircraft carrier has hardly ever put to sea. And so on and so forth.

Interesting that Biden has just given himself emergency powers that in the event someone were to say anything against the war in Ukraine the US government could seize control of the means of communication. Good thing no one is saying anything remotely like that here, phew!

It also turns out that Homeland Security is actively gathering domestic intelligence on anyone who is spouting anti regime rhetoric. (For the record Homeland Security, I was the the one who started the thread asking if Biden is the most humble president ever).

FROM WHITEHOUSE.GOV

On February 21, 2022, the President issued Executive Order 14065, which further expanded the scope of the national emergency declared in Executive Order 13660, as expanded in scope in Executive Orders 13661 and 13662, and relied on for additional steps taken in Executive Orders 13685 and 13849, and found that the Russian Federation’s purported recognition of the so-called Donetsk People’s Republic or Luhansk People’s Republic regions of Ukraine contradicts Russia’s commitments under the Minsk agreements and further threatens the peace, stability, sovereignty, and territorial integrity of Ukraine, and thereby constitutes an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States.

WHAT IN THE WORLD !?
A threat to Ukraine is a threat to the national security of the United States!?!?! What is this? Who reads this and is like "yep, that's true". This is INSANE. Not only did someone think this in their head- they wrote it down. And not only did they write it down, they made it into policy? This should be utterly ridiculed by everyone, everywhere, until the end of time.

I am aware of this, and he also said there was no going back; so this out-of-context quote isn't persuasive. The USSR failed as a state, and yes, when your government utterly fails to the point that it's dissolved, that's a tragedy. Just like if the US federal government fell apart tomorrow, it would be a tragedy, even if half the country became great, and the other half fell apart- it is still a tragedy that half fell apart. Jesus said he saw Satan fall from heaven like lightning; his being cast out of heaven was necessary, but his rebellion and fall are a tragedy.

Populism is on the rise. I don't want to join the Russian federation either, I'm not Russian. But the people in the Donbas and Crimea are, and they obviously didn't want to be yoked to the unstable government in Kyiv anymore.

The last country to join the EU was Croatia in 2013. The UK left in 2020. People want their national sovereignty back, and to not be shackled to international and intra-national organizations- the world as it is supposed to be.

Yes, and rightly so. They would be stupid not to. It's kinda like being afraid of jumping out of an airplane without a parachute.

I have no doubt that we will see a serious escalation if NATO keeps pumping military hardware and "volunteers" into Ukraine to the point that they are able start pushing troops anywhere near Crimea, or into the Donbas. And I don't think he is afraid to do something dramatic to try and get us to stop. Zelensky's regime already considers itself to be de-facto part of NATO. Putin sees his country as fighting NATO. The only people that think otherwise is the leaders of NATO. And we can deny we are at war with Russia, but de-facto we are, whether we admit it or not, and nobody will care about the current legal-status of an alliance, or the lack of a formal declaration of war when the conflict escalates outside of Ukraine (if it hasn't already). It needs to stop right now. It should not have even gotten this far.


You might have somewhat of a point on this one- the only things I would say is that while, yes, it is looking like Russia's conventional army is a "paper tiger", we might not see their whole hand right now either.

But this is exactly why we shouldn't be involved. We (NATO countries) DON'T have to fear Russia's conventional military invading our borders.
What we absolutely DO need to be wary of is crossing the line in Ukraine to the point that Russia is willing to risk making unconventional escalations.