Calvin did not invent the doctrines of grace

It's an excellent point because more accurately sovereignty is not about forcing something on someone but being able to do whatever you please and no one or no thing can inhibit you in doing so. That is what God states in Daniel 4:35...He does His will among the armies of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth, and none shall stay His hand...

Man's natural propensity against God in a fallen state merely works against him.

It isn't that God couldn't force people to believe, He just chooses to woo them instead.

There is no reason to make it about calvinism or freewill. The labels have taken a pejorative connotation and inflame passions that withheld might bring people together.

Here's another post I'd made (relatedly):

[quoting old post]


Re: "CALLED"... and the TWO distinct Greek words translated "CALL/CALLED" (or "INVITE/INVITED"):


G2564 - kaleó / kalesai / keklēmenous - "to call / invite / name"

G2822 - klétos / klētoi / klētois - "to call / invite / summon"


It is important to notice how EACH of these is used in BOTH [/EACH] the Matthew 22:1-14 passage AND the Romans 8:28,30 verses



G2564 - kaleó / kalesai / keklēmenous - "to call / invite / name" -


Matthew 22:3 V-ANA
GRK: δούλους αὐτοῦ καλέσαι τοὺς κεκλημένους
NAS: out his slaves to call those
KJV: servants to call them that were bidden
INT: servants of him to call those having been invited


Matthew 22:3 V-RPM/P-AMP
GRK: καλέσαι τοὺς κεκλημένους εἰς τοὺς
NAS: those who had been invited to the wedding feast,
KJV: to call them that were bidden to
INT: to call those having been invited to the


Matthew 22:4 V-RPM/P-DMP
GRK: Εἴπατε τοῖς κεκλημένοις Ἰδοὺ τὸ
NAS: those who have been invited, Behold,
KJV: Tell them which are bidden, Behold,
INT: Say to those having been invited Behold the


Matthew 22:8 V-RPM/P-NMP
GRK: οἱ δὲ κεκλημένοι οὐκ ἦσαν
NAS: but those who were invited were not worthy.
KJV: but they which were bidden were
INT: those moreover having been invited not were

[NOTE: these ^ had rejected the invitation/call, per vv.3,5,6; see also same word used in Lk14:16,17 and 24]


Matthew 22:9 V-AMA-2P
GRK: ἐὰν εὕρητε καλέσατε εἰς τοὺς
NAS: as you find [there], invite to the wedding feast.'
KJV: ye shall find, bid to
INT: if you shall find invite to the


Romans 8:30 V-AIA-3S
GRK: τούτους καὶ ἐκάλεσεν καὶ οὓς
NAS: He also called; and these
KJV: he also called: and whom
INT: these also he called and whom





G2822 - klétos / klētoi / klētois - "to call / invite / summon" -

Matthew 22:14 Adj-NMP
GRK: γάρ εἰσιν κλητοὶ ὀλίγοι δὲ
NAS: For many are called, but few
KJV: many are called, but few
INT: indeed are called few however


Romans 8:28 Adj-DMP
GRK: κατὰ πρόθεσιν κλητοῖς οὖσιν
NAS: to those who are called according
KJV: to them who are the called according
INT: according to [his] purpose called are



[note: the Matthew 22:[1-7],8-14 passage is referring to the "guests [plural]" of "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" i.e. the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom which will be commencing upon His "RETURN" to the earth, whereas the Romans 8 passage is referring to (that which pertains to) "the Church which is His body" (who is not "the guests [plural]"), so there's that distinction to be noted also--not that this makes much difference in how these two words are used (re: 'call/invite')]


[end quoting from old post]

in their affliction they will seek me early.

Are you married? Most men I know would love to have a wife that agreed with them just half the time.

Here's something I posted in the past:

[quoting old post]



Luke 7:29-30 -29 "And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John. 30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel [G1012 - boulēn ] of God against [as to / unto] themselves, being not baptized [having not been baptized] of him."


--G1012 - boulēn - used also in Ephesians 1:11, the verse Calvinists use to say "no one can reject/resist" THIS, God's decreed [determined-plan] will [G1012]... yet Luke 7:30 clearly says the Pharisees and lawyers "rejected the boulēn G1012 of God..." (which, for that time then in existence, the decreed-will of God was: "the baptism of John").

The point being, they did indeed "reject the boulēn G1012 of God". Something that Calvinists say is impossible.


From Bible Hub [quoting]:

Definition: counsel, deliberate wisdom, decree.

HELPS Word-studies

1012 boulḗ – properly, a resolved plan, used particularly of the immutable aspect of God's plan – purposefully arranging all physical circumstances, which guarantees every scene of life works to His eternal purpose.

This level of God's plan (1012 /boulḗ) demonstrates He is the Lord of history, i.e. always in charge!

[1012 (boulḗ) is more than God's immutable plan of physical circumstances. It always also includes the Lord's purpose in them – and hence arranging all the physical scenes of history before creation (Ps 139:16; Jn 1:3).]


[and]

HELPS Word-studies

Cognate: 1014 boúlomai – to plan with full resolve (determination). See 1012 (boulē).

1014 /boúlomai ("resolutely plan") is a strong term that underlines the predetermined (and determined) intention driving the planning (wishing, resolving). In contrast, 2309 (thélō) focuses on the desire ("wishfulness") behind making an offer (cf. TDNT, 1, 629).

[While God's "thelō-offers" can be rejected (see 2309 /thélō), His 1014 /boúlomai ("planning") always works out His purpose, especially in conjunction with presetting the physical scenes of history.]

[end quotes from BibleHub]



They clearly "rejected the boulēn G1012 of God," according to that text.

One might think to answer, well they are just doing what comes naturally (to natural man), but that's to miss the point. The point is, Calvinists say that "no one can reject/resist His 'boule / boulen [G1012]' will (that is to say, His 'decreed' will)."
But Luke 7:30 says these clearly did so.


[end quoting old post]




Thoughts?

who are doomed from the womb to certain death, and are to glorify him by their destruction."

But you have read people don’t have a choice in the matter.

No, that's not actually what the gospel teaches.

You’re damn right it doesn’t.

I believe 1 Corinthians 2:14 refers to the mystery, the hidden wisdom (1 Cor 2:6-7) which was kept secret ... hid in God ... until God revealed it to Paul.

Interesting. See the sequence.

Eze 11:19
And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

Eze 11:20
That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Eze 11:21
But as for them whose heart walketh after the heart of their detestable things and their abominations, I will recompense their way upon their own heads, saith the Lord GOD.

Two Calvin quotes:
"Scripture clearly proves that God by his eternal and immutable counsel determined once for all those whom it was his pleasure one day to admit to salvation, and those whom, on the other hand, it was his pleasure to doom to destruction." – (John Calvin: Institutes of the Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 7, Sec. 2210)
[...and...]
"Now, since the arrangement of all things is in the hand of God, since to him belongs the disposal of life and death, he arranges all things by his sovereign counsel, in such a way that individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death, and are to glorify him by their destruction." - (John Calvin: Institutes of the Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Sec. 2231)




... if Calvin indeed said [/wrote] those things ^ , they sound pretty clear to me...

(...however, I think he has misunderstood some things...)

I do not believe 1 Corinthians 2:14 refers to the gospel. I believe 1 Corinthians 2:14 refers to the mystery, the hidden wisdom (1 Cor 2:6-7) which was kept secret ... hid in God ... until God revealed it to Paul.





I understand that is what you believe. I don't hold to that understanding.

to me it appears you've got a person born again in order to hear the Gospel message through which the person is born again.
.

More.....

Eze 20:33
As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:

Eze 20:34
And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.

Eze 20:35
And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.

Eze 20:36
Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord GOD.

Eze 20:37
And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:

Eze 20:38
And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

That's definitely the right question. You must have had something high in protein for breakfast.

It is God’s desire that everyone be saved, but not everyone is saved. How’s that possible if God’s will prevails?

One cannot truly believe in a Sovereign God and believe that God will wait upon man's choices. Which is it? Is God running the show are is man?