Calvin did not invent the doctrines of grace
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You are actually agreeing -
-Not with what you understood of what I said, but with what I meant.
And it surprises me you could have thought I meant the opposite-
-Not with what you understood of what I said, but with what I meant.And it surprises me you could have thought I meant the opposite-
I think you thought I didn't think your thought. So you thought I thought I don't think, I think.
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Cat, or Ray? I am listening to Cat right now Man, I loved his Tea For The Tillerman LP
I will isten to Ray next
Man, I loved his Tea For The Tillerman LP I will isten to Ray next
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I made it smaller…..
There is no ground for Satan, when we choose to serve God.
So satan is accusing Gods people, day and night.
See how important it is that it’s completely our will and choice to follow God and serve Him.
Satan is accusing God of
“running the show,”
“Doth Job fear God for nought?”
So God gives Satan permission to destroy almost everything Job had.
But Job offered up his words of worship to God.
“fell down upon the ground, and worshipped,”
So that might help some to understand why sometimes trials come our way and our faith is tested.
It’s because Satan is up there trying to accuse us,
of following God,
just to get all the blessings.
like Job said…
the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord
There is no ground for Satan, when we choose to serve God.
So satan is accusing Gods people, day and night.
See how important it is that it’s completely our will and choice to follow God and serve Him.
Satan is accusing God of
“running the show,”
“Doth Job fear God for nought?”
So God gives Satan permission to destroy almost everything Job had.
But Job offered up his words of worship to God.
“fell down upon the ground, and worshipped,”
So that might help some to understand why sometimes trials come our way and our faith is tested.
It’s because Satan is up there trying to accuse us,
of following God,
just to get all the blessings.
like Job said…
the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord
2 Peter 3:9 says God is not willing that any should perish; that should
be enough to tell us that God does not elect any to damnation. -
be enough to tell us that God does not elect any to damnation. -
When God tells no one comes into him unless he calls, leads, them. When Jesus, who was the Father, tells us he taught the gospel of God's grace and salvation in parables so not all would understand and come to repentance, do we disbelieve?
Do we forget the wrath of God reported all through the first testament?
Psalm 59:13
Destroy them in wrath, destroy them that they may be no more;
That men may know that God rules in Jacob
To the ends of the earth. Selah.
Source: https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Wrath
2 Kings 15, Hosea 13, 1 Samuel 15, Psalm 137
Numbers 23:19 God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?
Proverbs 16:4 NET
The Lord has worked[a] everything for his own ends[b]—
even the wicked for the day of disaster.[c]
FOOTNOTE
sn This is an example of synthetic parallelism (“A, what’s more B”). The A-line affirms a truth, and the B-line expands on it with a specific application about the wicked—whatever disaster comes their way is an appropriate correspondent for their life.
There is so much in your post for me to comment on. And my take on some of the great themes of the texts you have given is much different than many.
If you are pointing out the necessity of our freedom to choose that Satan is defeated and God is most glorified, I heartily agree. An explanation for why would be lengthy and would involve how we can live that God is most glorified and why that inevitably puts the people of God in positions of weakness.
I differ with most here on the site about the timing of those verses in Revelation and what the present ramifications of those verses mean.
As far as Job goes, he was an unusual man of God. Because of that, the Job presented to us wouldn't exemplify most Christians, let alone an unsaved person choosing a relationship with God.
The key verse in Job to understanding all that has happened is 42:5.
I do believe Job made some incredibly faithful choices. The choice to worship in the the face of great adversity that you pointed out was very admirable. The choice not to blame God but trust Him no matter what is also very encouraging to God's people as they go through adversity themselves...13:15.
Hope this serves as a start and if there is something I neglected to address that you wanted me to address, please follow up.
If you are pointing out the necessity of our freedom to choose that Satan is defeated and God is most glorified, I heartily agree. An explanation for why would be lengthy and would involve how we can live that God is most glorified and why that inevitably puts the people of God in positions of weakness.
I differ with most here on the site about the timing of those verses in Revelation and what the present ramifications of those verses mean.
As far as Job goes, he was an unusual man of God. Because of that, the Job presented to us wouldn't exemplify most Christians, let alone an unsaved person choosing a relationship with God.
The key verse in Job to understanding all that has happened is 42:5.
I do believe Job made some incredibly faithful choices. The choice to worship in the the face of great adversity that you pointed out was very admirable. The choice not to blame God but trust Him no matter what is also very encouraging to God's people as they go through adversity themselves...13:15.
Hope this serves as a start and if there is something I neglected to address that you wanted me to address, please follow up.
His ideas were not very consistent, having read the Institutes many years ago for a course.
I doubt he would agree, He could not help but eventually follow the logical conclusions of his faulty view of the plan of salvation.
“The predestination by which God adopts some to the hope of life, and adjudges others to eternal death, no man who would be thought pious ventures simply to deny . . . By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God, by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man.
All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death.” [16]
Chapter 21 of Book III of John Calvin’s Institutes of the Christian Religion is called “Of the eternal election, by which God has predestinated some to salvation, and others to destruction.”
I doubt he would agree, He could not help but eventually follow the logical conclusions of his faulty view of the plan of salvation.
“The predestination by which God adopts some to the hope of life, and adjudges others to eternal death, no man who would be thought pious ventures simply to deny . . . By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God, by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man.
All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death.” [16]
Chapter 21 of Book III of John Calvin’s Institutes of the Christian Religion is called “Of the eternal election, by which God has predestinated some to salvation, and others to destruction.”
Romans 9
God's Sovereign Choice
9 I am speaking the truth in Christ—I am not lying; my conscience bears me witness in the Holy Spirit— 2 that I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers,[a] my kinsmen according to the flesh. 4 They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises. 5 To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.
6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, 7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” 8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. 9 For this is what the promise said: “About this time next year I will return, and Sarah shall have a son.” 10 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— 12 she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion,[b] but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? 25 As indeed he says in Hosea,
“Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’
and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’”
26 “And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’
there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’”
27 And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel[c] be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved, 28 for the Lord will carry out his sentence upon the earth fully and without delay.” 29 And as Isaiah predicted,
“If the Lord of hosts had not left us offspring,
we would have been like Sodom
and become like Gomorrah.”
Israel's Unbelief
30 What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness[d] did not succeed in reaching that law. 32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, 33 as it is written,
“Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense;
and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”
Footnotes
God's Sovereign Choice
9 I am speaking the truth in Christ—I am not lying; my conscience bears me witness in the Holy Spirit— 2 that I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers,[a] my kinsmen according to the flesh. 4 They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises. 5 To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.
6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, 7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” 8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. 9 For this is what the promise said: “About this time next year I will return, and Sarah shall have a son.” 10 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— 12 she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion,[b] but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? 25 As indeed he says in Hosea,
“Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’
and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’”
26 “And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’
there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’”
27 And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel[c] be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved, 28 for the Lord will carry out his sentence upon the earth fully and without delay.” 29 And as Isaiah predicted,
“If the Lord of hosts had not left us offspring,
we would have been like Sodom
and become like Gomorrah.”
Israel's Unbelief
30 What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness[d] did not succeed in reaching that law. 32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, 33 as it is written,
“Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense;
and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”
Footnotes
- Romans 9:3 Or brothers and sisters
- Romans 9:16 Greek not of him who wills or runs
- Romans 9:27 Or children of Israel
- Romans 9:31 Greek a law of righteousne
