Jesus is God

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ketura

ketura

Member
#621
Feb 8, 2023
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Still on earth !
#621
wattie said:
I don't think it is wise seperating Jesus from Yahweh. The one triune God has Jesus there right from the beginning. There are different names for God of course.. but God was never 'not' triune. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit have always been as one triune God.

The different names are different roles for the same being. In the way God deals with men, He has taken on different names to show the way He is relating to them.
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I like and agree............,
There is ONLY ONE GOD......,
& not one of three.

The one who created, is the same as he that redeems.
Some cannot receive this, it seems.

No matter, it changes him naught,
Believe or refuse, this is what his word has taught!

To accept, is for one to be wise,
And not be deceived by the devil's own lies.

THE one, accept him or not, we all will soon face,
I pray you are safe within HIS one true loving embrace !
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#622
Jul 18, 2017
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#622
wattie said:
I don't think it is wise separating Jesus from Yahweh.
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Correct. The Hebrew tetragrammaton -- YHWH -- which has been translated in the KJV as "the LORD" (small caps) applies to both the Father and the Son (depending on the context). While it is translated as "Yahweh" there were no vowels in the Hebrew. And in order to be careful the Jews used "Adonai" (Lord) in place of Yahweh. So the KJV has "the LORD".

WHEN APPLIED TO JESUS: The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD [YHWH], make straight in the desert a highway for our God. (A reference to John the Baptist in Isaiah 40:3, preparing the way for Jesus of Nazareth) Here Jesus is also called "our God".

WHEN APPLIED TO GOD THE FATHER: Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the LORD [YHWH], and thy Redeemer [JESUS], the Holy One of Israel. (Isa 41:14)
 
wattie

wattie

Senior Member
#623
Feb 24, 2009
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#623
ButterflyJones said:
It's surprising how often many absolutes in the Bible are denied as such here.

The community obviously isn't restricted to Christians only .
And too some pov's make me even more confident in my choice to no longer attend a church if those pov's are an example of the teachings there.
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Yeah, a central issue going on is the 'what is true for me is true for me, and what is true for you is true for you'.. becoming dominant in christian circles.

So rather than saying.. the bible interprets itself and contains all the truth we need. Many christians will say 'I interpret it this way.. and that's how it is true for me'

God is going to have a personal, individual life application to every believer that is different.. but it won't contradict what scripture in context teaches.
 
A

aa31000

Banned
#624
Feb 5, 2023
126
15
18
#624
wattie said:
This has been covered already, there is another at least one thread called 'Christ is God', but I think there is too much lowering of Jesus' status in these forums at the moment.

When the Pharisees wanted to stone Jesus, it was for blasphemy. Jesus was making Himself equal with God. So.. that does not mean that He *wasn't* God. It means He is equal. Jesus is distinct from the Father.. but not inferior. Inferiority.. and you are getting into Polytheism.

Jesus also says to them 'before Abraham was, I AM'... that is a clear reference to God talking to Moses at the burning bush. He is again making Himself equal with God.. and saying those words from God are His words. He is identifying Himself with Yahweh.. the national God of Israel... and beyond that.

Jesus saying 'The Father is greater than I'

With this verse, in the passage He ascends to be one with the Father later, after saying it.

If I say.. the president is greater than I.. is he an ontologically superior being?

No.. he is not. He is a flawed human being like I am, but he is in a greater position.

In Revelation.. this is Jesus' words to the churches.. it also the Holy Spirit's word to the churches.. and then Jesus is referred to with 'Alpha and Omega' terms.. which is used for the Father.

You can't avoid this! Jesus DID claim, indirectly to be God!

Then there is also the Jewish concept of agency.. the messager taking an originators message.. the agent becomes equal to the messenger. So when Jesus says 'by the hand of the Father'.. 'and I and the Father are one'.. things like that... to the Jews... that is saying 'I am God'.. His words are equal to the Fathers.

It goes on and on.. such as 'all the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Him bodily'

And also that Jesus accepted worship of Himself.

'Son' meaning 'image' 'expression' 'manifestation' of God.. not 'inferior, born out of'

If anyone is going to claim Jesus is not God.. equal to the Father.. that is not christianity. It's something else.
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Jesus told the pharisees their Father was the devil-Why? Because they were liars. ( John 8:44)--They as well said that Jesus got his power from Beezulbub( satan) --Hearts filled with hate do not speak truth. Jesus did not commit blasphemy as they were claiming.
 
A

aa31000

Banned
#625
Feb 5, 2023
126
15
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#625
Nehemiah6 said:
Correct. The Hebrew tetragrammaton -- YHWH -- which has been translated in the KJV as "the LORD" (small caps) applies to both the Father and the Son (depending on the context). While it is translated as "Yahweh" there were no vowels in the Hebrew. And in order to be careful the Jews used "Adonai" (Lord) in place of Yahweh. So the KJV has "the LORD".

WHEN APPLIED TO JESUS: The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD [YHWH], make straight in the desert a highway for our God. (A reference to John the Baptist in Isaiah 40:3, preparing the way for Jesus of Nazareth) Here Jesus is also called "our God".

WHEN APPLIED TO GOD THE FATHER: Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the LORD [YHWH], and thy Redeemer [JESUS], the Holy One of Israel. (Isa 41:14)
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Wicked men by satans will removed Gods name, because they feared taking his name in vain. God' will inspired his name in almost 6800 spots-OT and a little over 200 spots quoted in NT where the name belongs in the OT. Because God wants his name there. Only the wicked have fear of using Gods name in vain, the righteous do not fear using Gods name in vain. They love the name and use it. All translations with the removal of the name is done by satans will. Whose will do true followers support) Matt 7:21)
 
A

aa31000

Banned
#627
Feb 5, 2023
126
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#627
wattie said:
I don't think it is wise seperating Jesus from Yahweh. The one triune God has Jesus there right from the beginning. There are different names for God of course.. but God was never 'not' triune. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit have always been as one triune God.

The different names are different roles for the same being. In the way God deals with men, He has taken on different names to show the way He is relating to them.
Click to expand...
The OT separated them--YHWH said to my Lord( Jesus)- proving 100% Jesus is not YHWH.
 
T

TheLearner

Well-known member
#628
Jan 14, 2019
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#628
Nehemiah6 said:
Correct. The Hebrew tetragrammaton -- YHWH -- which has been translated in the KJV as "the LORD" (small caps) applies to both the Father and the Son (depending on the context). While it is translated as "Yahweh" there were no vowels in the Hebrew. And in order to be careful the Jews used "Adonai" (Lord) in place of Yahweh. So the KJV has "the LORD".

WHEN APPLIED TO JESUS: The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD [YHWH], make straight in the desert a highway for our God. (A reference to John the Baptist in Isaiah 40:3, preparing the way for Jesus of Nazareth) Here Jesus is also called "our God".

WHEN APPLIED TO GOD THE FATHER: Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the LORD [YHWH], and thy Redeemer [JESUS], the Holy One of Israel. (Isa 41:14)
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"The nt simply quotes the LXX, which translated the tetragrammaton as kurios. That’s because the rabbis read the tetragrammaton in Hebrew as if it said adonai (“lord”) instead of yahweh—so they translated it into Greek as kurios (“lord”). " https://bnonn.com/whats-the-big-deal-with-translating-yahweh-as-lord/
 
T

TheLearner

Well-known member
#629
Jan 14, 2019
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#629
TheLearner said:
"The nt simply quotes the LXX, which translated the tetragrammaton as kurios. That’s because the rabbis read the tetragrammaton in Hebrew as if it said adonai (“lord”) instead of yahweh—so they translated it into Greek as kurios (“lord”). " https://bnonn.com/whats-the-big-deal-with-translating-yahweh-as-lord/
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True,

"
Perhaps because of this reticence to pronounce the name YHWH, most English translations of the Old Testament render it as “the Lord.” (Note the use of small caps in this usage.) So Psalm 23:1 is typically rendered in English as “The Lord is my shepherd.”

This method of translating YHWH as “the Lord” goes back as far as the Coverdale translation, which was first published in 1535.

The name YHWH is found 6,828 times in the Hebrew text of the Old Testament. Like most other English translations, the NLT renders YHWH as “the Lord” almost every time. "
https://www.tyndale.com/sites/tyndalebibles/the-new-living-translations-use-of-the-lord-for-yhwh/

just investigatinfd
 
T

TheLearner

Well-known member
#630
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#630
"A good summary of the history of the problem is in an NOT article “Translating the Tetragrammaton YHWH” (1997) by Katy Barnwell, an excerpt of which follows (from p. 24): In many English translations of the Hebrew Bible (the Old Testament) the form “LORD,” written in small capitals, is used to represent the four Hebrew letters YHWH. This is a proper name, the personal name of God, not a title or a general noun. "
https://www.sil.org/system/files/re...1165619732394342641225818/siljot2005_1_03.pdf
 
A

aa31000

Banned
#633
Feb 5, 2023
126
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#633
Nehemiah6 said:
Correct. The Hebrew tetragrammaton -- YHWH -- which has been translated in the KJV as "the LORD" (small caps) applies to both the Father and the Son (depending on the context). While it is translated as "Yahweh" there were no vowels in the Hebrew. And in order to be careful the Jews used "Adonai" (Lord) in place of Yahweh. So the KJV has "the LORD".

WHEN APPLIED TO JESUS: The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD [YHWH], make straight in the desert a highway for our God. (A reference to John the Baptist in Isaiah 40:3, preparing the way for Jesus of Nazareth) Here Jesus is also called "our God".

WHEN APPLIED TO GOD THE FATHER: Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the LORD [YHWH], and thy Redeemer [JESUS], the Holy One of Israel. (Isa 41:14)
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According to Jesus' teachings, you are twisting what is said. Jesus is 100% clear at John 17: 1-6,26--Verse3-This means eternal life, their knowing you(Father) THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and the one whom you sent forth Christ Jesus. 2 points taught here by Jesus1) the Father is the only true God 2) The only true God did not come to earth, he sent another named Jesus as a mortal- verse 6=YHWH verse 26= YHWH.
When ones teachers do not match what Jesus taught--RUN FROM THEM. They are these-2Cor 11:12-15)
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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Jul 18, 2017
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#635
aa31000 said:
According to Jesus' teachings, you are twisting what is said.
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Another false accuser of the brethren. Since I have quoted Scripture in context, there is no twisting.

God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are all fully God. So what does John 17:3 say? And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. This corresponds to 1 John 5:20: And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

The only true God and Jesus Christ go together. They are inseparable. As Jesus said, He is in the Father, and the Father is in Him, and they both are One. So that if one has seen Jesus, one has seen the Father. Those are all the recorded words of Christ. And in several places Christ is called "God our Savior".
 
A

aa31000

Banned
#636
Feb 5, 2023
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#636
Nehemiah6 said:
Another false accuser of the brethren. Since I have quoted Scripture in context, there is no twisting.

God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are all fully God. So what does John 17:3 say? And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. This corresponds to 1 John 5:20: And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

The only true God and Jesus Christ go together. They are inseparable. As Jesus said, He is in the Father, and the Father is in Him, and they both are One. So that if one has seen Jesus, one has seen the Father. Those are all the recorded words of Christ.
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They are one in purpose. Jesus lives to do his Fathers will over his own will, As do all true followers( Matt 7:21)
If the 3 are the true God, then Jesus would have lied at John 17:3, and we know he didnt, so the problem lies elsewhere. The teaching that the 3 are equal is false as well-Only the Father knows the day and hour.
1John 5:20--the one who is true=Father=YHWH,See the words in his son( talking about the true one) not about Jesus. Because Jesus is mentioned after.
Rev 1:1--Proves 100% Jesus is not God--A revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave to him---see 2 beings mentioned one is God( the giver) one is Jesus( receiver)--there is only one God.
 
V

VARob

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#637
Dec 21, 2020
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#637
aa31000 said:
They are one in purpose. Jesus lives to do his Fathers will over his own will, As do all true followers( Matt 7:21)
If the 3 are the true God, then Jesus would have lied at John 17:3, and we know he didnt, so the problem lies elsewhere. The teaching that the 3 are equal is false as well-Only the Father knows the day and hour.
1John 5:20--the one who is true=Father=YHWH,See the words in his son( talking about the true one) not about Jesus. Because Jesus is mentioned after.
Rev 1:1--Proves 100% Jesus is not God--A revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave to him---see 2 beings mentioned one is God( the giver) one is Jesus( receiver)--there is only one God.
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Just so you know, they will quickly ban you from this forum if you speak against the Trinity or the deity of Jesus Christ.

There are other things to talk about.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#638
Jul 18, 2017
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#638
aa31000 said:
The OT separated them--YHWH said to my Lord( Jesus)- proving 100% Jesus is not YHWH.
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We have another cultist here who is denying the deity of Christ. If Jesus was not YHWH how could he call Himself "I AM"? That is the name of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Read and study Exodus 3 and repent of your heresy. Because if you do not believe that He is "I AM" you will die in your sins.

JESUS TOLD THE JEWS AND THE WORLD: I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM, ye shall die in your sins. (John 8:24) That is how it should have been translated without adding "he". This corresponds to John 8:58: Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#639
Jul 18, 2017
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#639
VARob said:
Just so you know, they will quickly ban you from this forum if you speak against the Trinity or the deity of Jesus Christ.
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Well is is certainly looking for trouble.
 
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