Jesus is God

MitchW · Feb 2, 2023

I believe that at death JESUS comes for us and takes us to Heaven. I don't believe that Yahweh is even mentioned in the New Testament. The reason YHWH (I use YHWH rather than Yahweh, as it is closer the the Hebrew original) does not appear in the New Testament is that the New Testament was written in Greek. YHWH is a Hebrew word for God.

Thus, every CHRISTian puts his trust in Jesus while the Jews ONLY place their trust in Yahweh.

Magenta · Feb 2, 2023

John 1:1
John 1:14a The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us.

TheLearner · Feb 3, 2023

MitchW said:

I have a Jewish background and I believe in Jesus. The name Yahweh is too sacred to be spoken .

ItsAdventageous · Feb 4, 2023

TheLearner said:

What a bunch of nonsense.

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Gen_22:14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.

Exo_6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

Exo_17:15 And Moses built an altar, and called the name of it Jehovahnissi:

Jdg_6:24 Then Gideon built an altar there unto the LORD, and called it Jehovahshalom: unto this day it is yet in Ophrah of the Abiezrites.

Psa_83:18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

Isa 12:1 And in that day thou shalt say, O LORD, I will praise thee: though thou wast angry with me, thine anger is turned away, and thou comfortedst me.

Isa_12:2 Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.

Isa 26:1 In that day shall this song be sung in the land of Judah; We have a strong city; salvation will God appoint for walls and bulwarks.

Isa_26:4 Trust ye in the LORD for ever: for in the LORD JEHOVAH is everlasting strength:

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Abraham said ("called the name of that place") "Jehovahjireh".

Moses said ("called the name of it (altar)") "Jehovahnissi".

Gideon said ("called it (altar)")) "Jehovahshalom".

Asaph said "JEHOVAH".

Isaiah, and the peoples say and sing, "JEHOVAH".

God said to Moses, "JEHOVAH".

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And that is just the 7 times that JEHOVAH is clearly provided, out of the several thousands of times it appears, in the OT.

You mean to tell me that in SONG, and PRAISE it was never spoken by anyone? Psalms alone:

Psa_1:2, Psa_1:6, Psa_2:2, Psa_2:7, Psa_2:11, Psa_3:1, Psa_3:3-5 (3), Psa_3:7-8 (2), Psa_4:3 (2), Psa_4:5-6 (2), Psa_4:8, Psa_5:1, Psa_5:3, Psa_5:6, Psa_5:8, Psa_5:12, Psa_6:1-4 (5), Psa_6:8-9 (3), Psa_7:1 (2), Psa_7:3, Psa_7:6, Psa_7:8 (2), Psa_7:17 (2), Psa_8:1, Psa_8:9, Psa_9:1, Psa_9:7, Psa_9:9-11 (3), Psa_9:13, Psa_9:16, Psa_9:19-20 (2), Psa_10:1, Psa_10:3, Psa_10:12, Psa_10:16-17 (2), Psa_11:1, Psa_11:4-5 (2), Psa_11:7, Psa_12:1, Psa_12:3, Psa_12:5-7 (3), Psa_13:1, Psa_13:3, Psa_13:6, Psa_14:2, Psa_14:4, Psa_14:6-7 (2), Psa_15:1, Psa_15:4, Psa_16:2, Psa_16:5, Psa_16:7-8 (2), Psa_17:1, Psa_17:13-14 (2), Psa_19:9 (6), Psa_19:14, Psa_20:1, Psa_20:5-7 (3), Psa_20:9, Psa_21:1, Psa_21:7, Psa_21:9, Psa_21:13, Psa_22:8, Psa_22:19, Psa_22:23, Psa_22:26-27 (2), Psa_23:1, Psa_23:6, Psa_24:3, Psa_24:5, Psa_24:8 (2), Psa_24:10, Psa_25:1, Psa_25:4, Psa_25:6-8 (3), Psa_25:10-12 (3), Psa_25:14-15 (2), Psa_26:1-2 (3), Psa_26:6, Psa_26:8, Psa_26:12, Psa_27:1 (2), Psa_27:4 (3), Psa_27:6-8 (3), Psa_27:10-11 (2), Psa_27:13-14 (3), Psa_28:1, Psa_28:5-8 (4), Psa_30:4 (4), Psa_30:7-8 (3), Psa_30:10 (2), Psa_30:12, Psa_31:1, Psa_31:5-6 (2), Psa_31:9, Psa_31:14, Psa_31:17, Psa_31:21, Psa_31:23-24 (3), Psa_32:2, Psa_32:5, Psa_32:10-11 (2), Psa_33:1-2 (2), Psa_33:4-6 (3), Psa_33:8, Psa_33:10-13 (4), Psa_33:18, Psa_33:20, Psa_33:22, Ps 34 (16), Psa_35:1, Psa_35:5-6 (2), Psa_35:9-10 (2), Psa_35:22 (2), Psa_35:24, Psa_35:27, Psa_36:1, Psa_36:5-6 (2), Psa_38:1, Psa_38:15, Psa_38:21, Psa_39:4, Psa_39:12, Psa_40:1, Psa_40:3-5 (3), Psa_40:9, Psa_40:11, Psa_40:13 (2), Psa_40:16, Psa_41:1-4 (4), Psa_41:10, Psa_41:13, Psa_42:8, Psa_46:7-8 (2), Psa_46:11, Psa_47:2, Psa_47:5, Psa_48:1, Psa_48:8, Psa_50:1, Psa_54:6, Psa_55:16, Psa_55:22, Psa_56:10, Psa_58:6, Psa_59:3, Psa_59:5, Psa_59:8, Psa_64:10, Psa_68:16, Psa_69:13, Psa_69:16, Psa_69:31, Psa_69:33, Psa_70:1, Psa_70:5, Psa_71:1, Psa_74:18 (2), Psa_75:8, Psa_76:11, Psa_78:4, Psa_78:21, Psa_79:5, Psa_80:4, Psa_80:19, Psa_81:10, Psa_83:15-16 (2), Psa_84:1-3 (3), Psa_84:8, Psa_84:11-12 (3), Psa_85:1, Psa_85:7-8 (2), Psa_85:12, Psa_86:1, Psa_86:6, Psa_86:11, Psa_86:17, Psa_87:2, Psa_87:6, Psa_88:1, Psa_88:9, Psa_88:13-14 (2), Psa_89:1, Psa_89:5-6 (3), Psa_89:8, Psa_89:15, Psa_89:18, Psa_89:46, Psa_89:51-52 (2), Psa_90:13, Psa_90:17, Psa_91:2, Psa_91:9, Psa_92:1, Psa_92:4-5 (2), Psa_92:8-9 (2), Psa_92:13, Psa_92:15, Psa_93:1 (2), Psa_93:3-5 (3), Psa_94:1, Psa_94:3, Psa_94:5, Psa_94:11, Psa_94:14, Psa_94:17-18 (2), Psa_94:22-23 (2), Psa_95:1, Psa_95:3, Psa_95:6, Psa_96:1-2 (3), Psa_96:4-5 (2), Psa_96:7-10 (5), Psa_96:13, Psa_97:1, Psa_97:5, Psa_97:8-10 (3), Psa_97:12, Psa_98:1-2 (2), Psa_98:4-6 (3), Psa_98:9, Psa_99:1-2 (2), Psa_99:5-6 (2), Psa_99:8-9 (3), Psa_100:1-3 (3), Psa_100:5, Psa_101:1, Psa_101:8, Psa_102:1 (2), Psa_102:12, Psa_102:15-16 (2), Psa_102:19, Psa_102:21-22 (2), Psa_103:1-2 (2), Psa_103:6, Psa_103:8, Psa_103:13, Psa_103:17, Psa_103:19-22 (5), Psa_104:1 (2), Psa_104:16, Psa_104:24, Psa_104:31 (2), Psa_104:33-35 (3), Psa_106:1-2 (2), Psa_106:4, Psa_106:16, Psa_106:25, Psa_106:34, Psa_106:40, Psa_106:47-48 (2), Psa_107:1-2 (2), Psa_107:6, Psa_107:8, Psa_107:13, Psa_107:15, Psa_107:19, Psa_107:21, Psa_107:24, Psa_107:28, Psa_107:31, Psa_107:43, Psa_108:3, Psa_109:14-15 (2), Psa_109:20, Psa_109:26-27 (2), Psa_109:30, Psa_110:1-2 (2), Psa_110:4, Psa_111:1-2 (2), Psa_111:4, Psa_111:10, Psa_112:1, Psa_112:7, Psa_113:1-2 (3), Psa_113:4-5 (2), Psa_115:1, Psa_115:9-15 (8), Psa_117:2 (2), Psa_121:2 (3), Psa_121:5 (2), Psa_121:7-8 (2), Psa_122:1, Psa_122:4, Psa_122:9, Psa_123:2-3 (2), Psa_124:1-2 (2), Psa_124:6, Psa_124:8, Psa_125:1-2 (2), Psa_125:4-5 (2), Psa_126:1-4 (4), Psa_127:1 (2), Psa_127:3, Psa_128:1, Psa_128:4-5 (2), Psa_129:4, Psa_129:8 (2), Psa_130:1, Psa_130:5, Psa_130:7 (2), Psa_131:1, Psa_131:3, Psa_132:1-2 (2), Psa_132:5, Psa_132:8, Psa_132:11, Psa_132:13, Psa_133:3, Psa_134:1-3 (5), Psa_136:1, Psa_137:7, Psa_138:4-6 (4), Psa_138:8 (2), Psa_139:1, Psa_139:4, Psa_139:21, Psa_140:1, Psa_140:4, Psa_140:6 (2), Psa_140:8, Psa_140:12, Psa_141:1, Psa_141:3, Psa_142:1 (2), Psa_142:5, Psa_143:1, Psa_143:7, Psa_143:9, Psa_143:11, Psa_144:1, Psa_144:3, Psa_144:5, Psa_144:15, Psa_145:3, Psa_145:8-10 (3), Psa_145:14, Psa_145:17-18 (2), Psa_145:20-21 (2), Psa_146:1-2 (2), Psa_146:5, Psa_146:7-10 (6), Psa_147:2, Psa_147:6-7 (2), Psa_147:11-12 (2), Psa_148:1, Psa_148:5, Psa_148:7, Psa_148:13, Psa_149:1, Psa_149:4

Nehemiah6 · Feb 4, 2023

TheLearner said:

That is correct. Jews will speak of God as "HaShem" (the Name) without pronouncing His name. Many will spell God as G-d for the same reason. But the name Yahweh is incorporated in YAH-SHUA -- which is generally written as Yeshua but in the OT it was Yehoshua (Joshua) and it is now JESUS. YAH-SHUA means GOD IS OUR SALVATION. This is the name at which every knew shall bow in Heaven, on earth, and under the earth.

Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. (Isa 45:22,23)... Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Phil 2:9-11)

Here are two passages which clearly show that Jesus both Lord and God, and this is to the glory of God the Father. Which therefore establishes the doctrine of the Trinity.

ItsAdventageous · Feb 4, 2023

Nehemiah6 said:

Modern, post Calvary, Rabbinical Tamudistic Kabbalistic, Christ-Jesus (JEHOVAH is my Salvation) denying, 'jews' (Ashkenazic / Sephardic). Go look at the words of Abraham (father of the faithful, "If [they] were Abraham's children, [they] would do the works of Abraham." (John 8:39), Moses, "They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them." (Luke 16:29), and others spoke the name of God - JEHOVAH. None of them, played this silly game of placing dashes for letters (as if the mind doesn't automatically fill it in anyway), or not ever saying the name.

TheLearner · Feb 4, 2023

ItsAdventageous said:

Using a poor English Translation is not the same as reading the Hebrew. The vowels are removed in Hebrew.

"
The ancient Hebrew language that the Old Testament was written in did not have vowels in its alphabet. In written form, ancient Hebrew was a consonant-only language. In the original Hebrew, God’s name transliterates to YHWH (sometimes written in the older style as YHVH). This is known as the tetragrammaton (meaning “four letters”). Because of the lack of vowels, Bible scholars debate how the tetragrammaton YHWH was pronounced.

The tetragrammaton consists of four Hebrew letters: yodh, he, waw, and then he repeated. Some versions of the Bible translate the tetragrammaton as “Yahweh” or “Jehovah”; most translate it as “LORD” (all capital letters).

Contrary to what some believe, Jehovah is not the Divine Name revealed to Israel. The name Jehovah is a product of mixing different words and different alphabets of different languages. Due to a fear of accidentally taking God’s name in vain (Leviticus 24:16), the Jews basically quit saying it out loud altogether. Instead, when reading Scripture aloud, the Jews substituted the tetragrammaton YHWH with the word Adonai (“Lord”). Even in the Septuagint (the Greek translation of the Old Testament), the translators substituted Kurios (“Lord”) for the Divine Name. Eventually, the vowels from Adonai (“Lord”) or Elohim (“God”) found their way in between the consonants of YHWH, thus forming YaHWeH. But this interpolation of vowels does not mean that was how God’s name was originally pronounced. In fact, we aren’t entirely sure if YHWH should have two syllables or three.

Any number of vowel sounds can be inserted within YHWH, and Jewish scholars are as uncertain of the real pronunciation as Christian scholars are. Jehovah is actually a much later (probably 16th-century) variant. The word Jehovah comes from a three-syllable version of YHWH, YeHoWeH. The Y was replaced with a J (although Hebrew does not even have a J sound) and the W with a V, plus the extra vowel in the middle, resulting in JeHoVaH. These vowels are the abbreviated forms of the imperfect tense, the participial form, and the perfect tense of the Hebrew being verb (English is)—thus the meaning of Jehovah could be understood as “He who will be, is, and has been.”

So, what is God’s Name, and what does it mean? The most likely choice for how the tetragrammaton was pronounced is “YAH-way,” “YAH-weh,” or something similar. The name Yahweh refers to God’s self-existence. Yahweh is linked to how God described Himself in Exodus 3:14, “God said to Moses, ‘I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: “I AM has sent me to you.”’” God’s name is a reflection of His being. God is the only self-existent or self-sufficient Being. Only God has life in and of Himself. That is the essential meaning of the tetragrammaton, YHWH. "
https://www.gotquestions.org/YHWH-tetragrammaton.html

TheLearner · Feb 4, 2023

https://www.morethancake.org/archives/1553
https://www.gotquestions.org/Jehovah.html
"
You really called us out on this one. We Jews have an absolute obsession with avoiding uttering G‑d’s name. (Notice that we don’t even spell it out fully when writing the English word for G‑d. See: Why Don’t You Spell G‑d’s Name?) Actually, we are careful not to pronounce G‑d’s names except when reading the Torah or prayers.

Our caution is founded on an understanding of the third of the Ten Commandments, “You shall not take His name in vain.” Although this verse is classically interpreted as referring to a senseless oath using G‑d’s name, the avoidance of saying G‑d’s name extends to all expressions, except prayer and Torah study." https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1443443/jewish/Why-Dont-Jews-Say-Gds-Name.htm
"It was because the Jews were so concerned not to misuse the name of God that this tradition arose. The Jews wanted to be absolutely certain that they did not misuse the name of the Lord and so they read Adonai in place of YHWH. Thus, there was a good motive behind the tradition, even though the practice was never explicitly commanded by God. God’s command was not to misuse His name—and clearly one can reverently speak (or pray) the name of the Lord in a way that does not constitute misuse. However, as we readily discern even in our own day, many people are only all too ready to misuse the name of the Lord. And this, I think, is partly why this Jewish tradition arose. It provides a “fence around the Law,” which keeps people from violating God’s commandment. But constructing the fence itself was never actually commanded by God. "
https://probe.org/why-did-the-jews-not-say-gods-name-aloud-when-he-never-said-not-to/
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-name-of-god

It is clear that True Jewish People do not pronounce God's Name.
When a Jewish person becomes a Christian they nolonger are part of the Jewish Religion.

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Colossians 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

When one becomes a Christian, they are no longer considered to be Jewish by their Jewish community including family.

TheLearner · Feb 4, 2023

ItsAdventageous said:

Having been from a Jewish background it is clear you have no idea what you are talking about. Talk with any Jewish Rabbi, not a Christian Rabbi pretending he is still Jewish. The world does not revolve around your culture Brother, friend.

TheLearner · Feb 4, 2023

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Colossians 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all

Even Paul disagrees with Jews for Jesus in the sense of being a jewish christian.

ItsAdventageous · Feb 4, 2023

TheLearner said:

What non-sequitur and straw-manning, and red-herring. I said nothing of vowels. Yet, on that subject that you brought up, I know what the Hebrew reads, and the Rabbinical scholars, and Gaon's, which people seem to believe in, all clearly state what the vowels are and their pronunciation for the name of God, and it comes to JEHOVAH.

Then go read John Gill's classic work on the subject, as well as Gail Riplinger's:

John Gill - "A Dissertation Of The Hebrew Language" ( "... documents the use of the very name JEHOVAH from before 200 B.C. and throughout the centuries of the early church and the following millennium." - In Awe of thy Word, page 416, PDF 445) - https://ia902909.us.archive.org/34/items/book-history-a-dissertation-of-the-hebrew-language/Book - History - A Dissertation Of The Hebrew Language.pdf

Gail Riplinger's "In Awe Of Thy Word", Chapter 11, Jesus and JEHOVAH (PDF, page 442) - https://ia601900.us.archive.org/4/items/book-bible-gail-riplinger-in-awe-of-thy-word-avpublications/Book - Bible - Gail Riplinger - In Awe Of Thy Word - AVPublications.pdf

"... In his scholarly book, A Dissertation Concerning the Antiquity of the Hebrew Language, Letters, Vowel-Points and Accents, John Gill (1697-1771), eminent theologian and writer, documents the use of the very name JEHOVAH from before 200 B.C. and throughout the centuries of the early church and the following millennium. The Hebrew’s Mishna allowed the name as a salutation (Berachoth, ix, 5); according to Thamid, the priests in the temple could use the true name, but those in the country could only use Adonai (vii, 2); Maimonides said the name was used by the priests in the sanctuary and on the Day of Atonement (Moreh Nebukim, I, 61, and “Yad chasaka,” xiv, 10). Even commentators such as Nicholas of Lyra, Tostatus, Cajetan, and Bonfrere defended the pronunciation ‘JEHOVAH’ as received by Moses on Mt. Horeb. The name is found in the writings of Raymund Martin in the 1200s and Porchetus in the 1300s. Theodore Beza, Galatinus, and Cajetan, among many others, use it in the 1500s. Scholars such as Michaelis, Drach and Stier proved the name as the original. The 1602 Spanish Bible uses the name Iehova and gave a lengthy defense of the pronunciation Jehovah in its preface. In “the 17th century the pronunciation JEHOVAH was zealously defended by Fuller, Gataker, Leusden and others, against the criticisms...”(EB, pp. 311-314) ..." - In Awe Of Thy Word, page 416 (PDF 445).

For further reading - Another King James Bible Believer

TheLearner · Feb 6, 2023

clearly you have no idea what you are talking about. ROFL

BreatheFocusBet · Feb 7, 2023

The Word was God

John 1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The Word came after John and surpassed him because He was before him.
John 1
14The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us. We have seen His glory, the glory of the one and only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

15John testified concerning Him. He cried out, saying, “This is He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because He was before me.’ ”

Jesus came after John and surpassed him because He was before him
John 1
29The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! 30This is He of whom I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because He was before me.’

So Jesus is the Word, and was God.
Further,

This person
Jude 1
5Although you are fully aware of this, I want to remind you that after Jesus had delivered His people out of the land of Egypt, He destroyed those who did not believe.

Is this person
Exodus 12
51And on that very day the LORD brought the Israelites out of the land of Egypt by their divisions.

who will be called
Zechariah 13
9This third I will bring through the fire;

I will refine them like silver

and test them like gold.

They will call on My name,

and I will answer them.

I will say, ‘They are My people,’

and they will say, ‘The LORD is our God.’ ”

https://biblescan.com/search.php?q=The+Lord+is+God

Jesus is The LORD, and The LORD is God. So Jesus is God.

TheLearner · Feb 9, 2023

ButterflyJones · Feb 9, 2023

wattie said:

This has been covered already, there is another at least one thread called 'Christ is God', but I think there is too much lowering of Jesus' status in these forums at the moment.

When the Pharisees wanted to stone Jesus, it was for blasphemy. Jesus was making Himself equal with God. So.. that does not mean that He *wasn't* God. It means He is equal. Jesus is distinct from the Father.. but not inferior. Inferiority.. and you are getting into Polytheism.

Jesus also says to them 'before Abraham was, I AM'... that is a clear reference to God talking to Moses at the burning bush. He is again making Himself equal with God.. and saying those words from God are His words. He is identifying Himself with Yahweh.. the national God of Israel... and beyond that.

Jesus saying 'The Father is greater than I'

With this verse, in the passage He ascends to be one with the Father later, after saying it.

If I say.. the president is greater than I.. is he an ontologically superior being?

No.. he is not. He is a flawed human being like I am, but he is in a greater position.

In Revelation.. this is Jesus' words to the churches.. it also the Holy Spirit's word to the churches.. and then Jesus is referred to with 'Alpha and Omega' terms.. which is used for the Father.

You can't avoid this! Jesus DID claim, indirectly to be God!

Then there is also the Jewish concept of agency.. the messager taking an originators message.. the agent becomes equal to the messenger. So when Jesus says 'by the hand of the Father'.. 'and I and the Father are one'.. things like that... to the Jews... that is saying 'I am God'.. His words are equal to the Fathers.

It goes on and on.. such as 'all the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Him bodily'

And also that Jesus accepted worship of Himself.

'Son' meaning 'image' 'expression' 'manifestation' of God.. not 'inferior, born out of'

If anyone is going to claim Jesus is not God.. equal to the Father.. that is not christianity. It's something else.

It's surprising how often many absolutes in the Bible are denied as such here.

The community obviously isn't restricted to Christians only .
And too some pov's make me even more confident in my choice to no longer attend a church if those pov's are an example of the teachings there.

TheLearner · Feb 9, 2023

it was hard, I made it to here

Blade · Feb 9, 2023