Conclusion From Beware the Pseudo-Rapture Doctrine 4

This is where the post-trib train derails.[/quote[

That's Evmur's theory, not all post-millers.

Post-trib Resurrection? Yes.

Post-trib Rapture? No.

Right.

Corresponding exactly with what 1Cor15:23 says (re: resurrection):

"But EACH [a word meaning, 'of more than two'] in the own ORDER / RANK"

(then goes on, with Paul using the word "EPeita" in this v.23--distinct from the "eita" word he uses in the next verse, in v.24a, which is a SEQUENCE WORD ONLY, with NO time-element attached to it)

Because that's when sacrifice ceased.

The Jews will restart at the first opportunity they get. Revelation is clear on this.

Nothing that suggests anything other than pre-trib in any verse. It is the only logical and sensible scenario. No evidence for rapture after the tribulation in the Bible. The Bible goes into great detail about what happens in heaven before the Second Coming.
Post-trib Resurrection? Yes.
Post-trib Rapture? No.

It still doesn't change what I said. And...all this time and still nothing.

Please tellest thou me whatsoever thou seekest, dear brother.

Please tellest thou me whatsoever thou seekest, dear brother.

I think the book of Revelation has largely been fulfilled in the 1st century. I know it's not a popular view these days but to me it allows for the easiest explanation and doesn't require making terms mean anything other than what the plain language states.
It also allows for the book to actually be written to the audience who first received it. I don't see how a book written for future generations would give comfort to 1st century believers.

I too believe that much has been fulfilled, but I also believe in double fulfillments. For example:

An angry little Greek named Aunty Ochus Epiphanes defiled the temple a few years before Jesus came to Earth the first time. I believe this will be done again 3.5 years before He comes the second time (by the Antichrist.)

There is certainly precedent for double fulfillment. The book of Isaiah has the deliverance of Israel from Babylon. But it also looks forward to the deliverance to come in Christ. But I see it easily from the text there explicitly and don't see it so much with Revelation.

Like for information about the Rapture, Thessalonians is a great source for future goings on...

2 Thessalonians 2:4 Context

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

The text in Heb9:28 says, "a second time apart from sin shall appear [passive; G3708]."

The TEN VERSES having the word "appear [passive; G3708]" regarding Jesus (out of 684x that "G3708" word is used) are ALL speaking of what took place FOLLOWING His Resurrection.

(NONE refer to His earthly ministry BEFORE the Cross and His Resurrection. NONE!)...

IOW, the FIRST time "apart from sin" He appeared [G3708, passive, like in Heb9:28] was AFTER His Resurrection.

And of those TEN MENTIONS (of this same word Heb9:28 uses "G3708-passive"), FIVE of them refer to instances of when He was UP IN HEAVEN / FROM HIS POSITION IN HEAVEN (after His ASCENSION told of in Acts 1--meaning, AFTER THAT).




So, no... you'd have to come up with a more convincing argument or passage, as Heb9:28 (as I see it) isn't saying what many people SUGGEST it is conveying.

-- https://biblehub.com/interlinear/hebrews/9-28.htm


1537 [e]
ek
ἐκ
for
Prep

1208 [e]
deuterou
δευτέρου ,
a second time
Adj-GMS

5565 [e]
chōris
χωρὶς
apart from
Prep

266 [e]
hamartias
ἁμαρτίας ,
sin
N-GFS

3708 [e]
ophthēsetai
ὀφθήσεται
will appear
V-FIP-3S




-- Hebrews 9:28 Interlinear: so also the Christ, once having been offered to bear the sins of many, a second time apart from a sin-offering shall appear, to those waiting for him -- to salvation! (biblehub.com)

2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

Pay strict attention to what TDW has to say bro. Time to up your game a little......

[I added an underlining]

I'm delighted to see that you've underlined the word "SO THAT"... which I see (instead) as connecting back to the specific words saying "who [identifying] OPPOSES AND EXALTS HIMSELF above all that is called God or that is worshipped"... which points us back to the "king" who "shall do according to his [own] will" in Dan11:36 [many scholars see the break between v.35 and this v.36], which section (11:36-end) would be describing things IN THE FIRST HALF, occurring BEFORE the Dan12:1 MID-POINT (starting the SECOND / LATTER HALF of the 7 yrs, and lasts 3.5 yrs [the 1260 days... or 1290 days, whichever one you want to think connects]).

Here's what the word for "SO THAT" shows (per BibleHub):

HELPS Word-studies
5620 hṓste (a conjunction, derived from 5613 /hōs, "as" and 5037 /té, "both-and") – wherefore (with the result that both . . . ), connecting cause to necessary effect which emphasizes the result (the combined, end-accomplishment). The result involved then is the combination of both elements in the correlation, underscoring the inevitable effect of the paired elements.

[This common point ("fulcrum") of the correlation is the key link for yielding the result of the cause-and-effect relationship.]


[end quoting from BibleHub]


As I see it, it connects what he does in 2:4b ("SITTETH" and "SHEWING HIMSELF") back to the point of his "OPPOSING" and "EXALTING HIMSELF"... (which, as I see it... besides the connection with Matt24:4 / Mk13:5 "A CERTAIN ONE" (a certain one, bringing deception)... also connects with the rider on the white horse WITH A BOW [often meaning "DECEPTION"--see 2Th2:9-10a], when it says "went forth CONQUERING and TO CONQUER" which is at the START of the "7 yrs" as is Dan9:27 first line [v.27a].)




I realize this is a common understanding... I just disagree, for reasons I stated above.

Also, as I've mentioned in past posts, I see parallel language between the wording in 2Th2:7b-8a to that of Lam2:3-4 ("He hath DRAWN BACK His right hand FROM BEFORE the enemy," iow lifting His restraint [allowing the enemy to have at it!]... and [besides the "wrath" words and "flaming fire" wording] also says, "He STOOD with His right hand as an enemy...")




Agreed.

But I'm not sure why anyone would highlight the second line, skipping over the first line entirely (which is also what he will do--which I believe corresponds with the "whose COMING / ARRIVAL / ADVENT / PRESENCE / PAROUSIA" of the man of sin which 2Th2:9a speaks to specifically, at the START of the "7 yrs"... aka SEAL #1 at the ARRIVAL of "the DOTL" time period, per Paul's words in 1Th5:3 reflective of Jesus' words in Matt24:4 / Mk13:5 the FIRST of MANY "birth PANGS").




Anyway, THANKS for your response! Much appreciated!

Disagree. He is revealed on the world stage (being unmistakably and positively identified) when he ratifies/enforces/confirms "the covenant". Which initiates at the beginning of the 70th week. This is made very clear in the sequence.

This of course matches the opening of the first seal of Rev 6. Which matches all relevant statements made by Jesus on the matter. It all lines up perfectly.

Dan 9:27
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed,