Conclusion From Beware the Pseudo-Rapture Doctrine 4

It is interesting and also very disturbing to see that many Christians hate this sequence of events. Which ultimately means that there is UNBELIEF among believers.

Well....I would never attend a post-trib docrine Church myself. I mean they would never be able to shut me up for one thing.

I would probably get the boot eventually......

That would be correct.
1.) Rapture
2.) The Announcement and the Wedding.
3.) The Return to Earth with Jesus.

Your post-trib rapture theory just does not pan out.

Pretrib only works out if pretrib is used as the standard.

In reality The Bible is the standard and pretrib cannot be found in it.


Jesus "immediately AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days"

Oyster "Your post-trib rapture theory just does not pan out"

Why MUST we?

Who is making these demands? Dallas seminary, Hal Lindsay, Scofield & Tim Lahaye?
Certainly not Jesus, Paul, Moses, David, John, Isaiah or Daniel.

I still love Lucy.

This is HILARIOUS.

The Bible is indeed the standard since Christ the divine Bridegroom comes for His Bride the Church in order fulfil the Marriage of the Lamb in Heaven. Then the Bride becomes the Lamb's Wife for eternity. But the naysayers simply do not want to face this spiritual reality.

This is the scenario in Heaven, while there are divine judgments upon the unbelieving, the ungodly, and the wicked on earth during the Tribulation and the Great Tribulation. A time such as has never been, nor will ever be again.

Well......there is a difference between "mis"- belief and unbelief.

Still waiting for an answer (from the post-tribbers) on the identity of the 24 elders of Rev 4 & 5. I mean they describe themselves with precisely the same terminology so noted by Jesus Himself in Rev 2 & 3.

Pre trib wins hands-down on every debate. It's not even close. I find it interesting is that the pre-tribbers inevitably show themselves to be more knowledgeable regarding the Scriptures.

It's well past time you stopped believing you can bully Christians into pretrib belief. Pretrib dramatically lacks biblical backup.
A wedding in heaven prior to The Second Coming is an extra-biblical narrative.

A "bride" demanding to be married 7 years BEFORE the bridgegroom comes.
A "bride" demanding to give birth without labour pains.
A "bride" demanding she have her wedding years before she has made herself ready.
A "bride" demanding a wedding with some of her vital organs missing.

This is not The Bride of Christ.

What passage of scripture regarding the 70th week put the rapture before the tribulation. I realize pre-tribbers put the tribulation at a certain place on their chart put 'Daniel's 70th week' on the chart and have a little arrow with 'rapture' before the tribulation. But what does that have to do with what the Bible actually says about the pretrib rapture.

Please quote the scripture that says that Daniel's 70th week happens after a hiatus and especially quote the verse that says that there is an extra return of Christ along with the rapture before this 70th week.

I could say the angels unzipping of the giant green zipper that zips across the whole sky occurs before Daniel's 70th week, but I would have no scripture to back it up whatsoever. How is that different?

How does John 14 provide any support whatsoever for a pre-trib rapture? And what does that have to do with Daniel's 70th week? Please quote the verses you think make the case.

The day will not happen until the falling away occurs first and the man of sin is revealed. In Matthew 24, first it tells of the love of many waxing cold. It also says ye shall see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet (he that readeth let him understand) standing in the holy place. It speaks of great tribulation. And "after the tribulation of those days' we read about the coming of the Son of man and the gathering of the elect. Jesus encouraged His own disciples to be prepared for the coming of the Son of man.

Show me one verse. Look up the Greek for 'trouble' in the KJV of II Thessalonians 1:6 and notice the relation to 'tribulation' in phrases like the great tribulation, the same word used in this passage. When the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven, He will give the ___church___ rest from the tribulation it is suffering. Look at all the things that occur at His coming in that passage.

You have not presented any Biblical evidence for pretrib in your message so far.

Again, quote the verses. You have to really stretch questionable interpretations of one of the most allegorical apocalyptic books of the Bible to squeeze out an argument, when Paul and Christ lay down some straightforward teachings on the matter. Interpret Revelation consistent with other scripture.

It happens right after the resurrection. The 'first resurrection' is described in Revelation 20, right before the passage on what God does to thee beast of Revelation. Notice that II Thessalonians 2 speaks of the lawless one being destroyed at the brightness of His coming. I Thessalonians 4 speaks of the rapture and resurrection at His coming also.

Where does the Bible teach that Jesus comes back two more times?

You seemed pretty well silenced in a previous debate when you were pressed to offer some actual evidence for pretrib.

"Still waiting for an answer (from the post-tribbers) on the identity of the 24 elders of Rev 4 & 5. I mean they describe themselves with precisely the same terminology so noted by Jesus Himself in Rev 2 & 3."

Again? I don't believe the 24 elders have anything to do with rapture timing.
State why you think the 24 elders are evidence of a pretrib rapture if that's what you think they are.

Already have. Dozens and dozens of times. Posties always want to hear it over and over again.....only to ignore it after it is presented.

The fact is: pre-tribbers have all the answers dear friend. Posties always come up woefully short.

The silence that comes from you and the other posties being willfully deaf to the truth.

If part of the church goes through the tribulation, will they have to resist the mark of the beast? Will they have to endure to the end to be saved?

Another failure to rightly divide the nation of Israel and the body of Christ.

Context does suggest the Church that has been being addressed for the last two chapters. I also like how 4:1 explains what the sound of the Rapture Trumpet is. Not everything in Revelation is in chronological order, but I think this is.

Revelation 4:1
“After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.”

The first thing John sees is the (pre-trib) Rapture.

Indeed.....trib saints and Israel DO NEED TO ENDURE in a manner different that the Spirit-indwelt Church here and now in the Church age.

This of course because we have already been harpazo-ed out of the earth. A completely different dynamic is in play during the trib.

Yet another remarkable shifting of the gears that goes unnoticed by the posties. Not unnoticed by the Pre-tribbers though. We have all the answers is why.

BTW......this dynamic ("ek" out of the general population) while still in mortal bodies DOES NOT OCCUR to any group other than the Church and during the Church age.

Rom 8:11
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from G1537 the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from G1537 the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Again....pre-tribbers have all the right answers.