Struggling reading through romans 8 & 9 and Calvinism.

I only respond to comments that have scripture quotes to back them up.

Because when read in context this passage isn't talking about a nation of Israel.

Firstly, regarding salvation Paul never talks about a nation of Israel, I have yet to see anyone provide me any verse anywhere, NT or OT, that states "the nation of Israel is saved". It just doesn't exist in the Bible.

In terms of salvation he only talks about the people Israel. He very specifically makes the distinction that not all of Israel are Israel. He very clearly establishes the fact that not all of Israel will be saved, but all Israel will be saved. And he clearly alludes to himself as a member of all Israel and therefore evidence that the promises have/will be fulfilled.



It's an apposition. Individuals that meet the conditions of being a) his countrymen, b) his fleshly kinsmen, c) Israelites, d) to whom belongs the adoption of sons and daughters, glory, covenants, Law, temple service, e) the promises.

Not all children of flesh meet the condition of belonging to the promises. He clearly isn't talking about all of his countrymen, nor all fleshly kinsmen, nor all Israelites, but all of those qualities plus being heirs to the promises. Paul takes a lot of time to dispel the misconception that not everyone that claims to be heir to the promises is actually heir to the promises. The promises were only ever to those with an internal nature to turn to God and not all that were counted among Israelites.

I think I am understanding this way as well. We are still responsible for our choice. There are too many passages that show that, but we can not come to the father unless he draws us. We are dead in our sins and need him to call us to him. It is not easy to understand, but our minds will never be able to fully understand until he returns for us and we get to see him just as he is.

What I do know for sure is that I am 100% undeserving of the grace He gives.. and it's grace upon grace I have been given. He knows we can't do it on our own. "For he knows our frame, he remembers that we are dust. "

I only respond to comments that have scripture quotes to back them up.

What is your interpretation of 1 Cor 2:14 & John 14:17?

You are going to have to argue that the following IS NOT true:

-that had a theocratic law given to the people by God thru Moses that was national in scope
- the Israel was indeed a unique, identifiable Nation under their king David
-who had as their capitol Jerusalem (chosen by God)
-where the Temple was located, the pattern of which was given to David by God Himself
-which was a theocracy predicated on covenants given to Abraham, David and Levi,
which will perpetuate into the future not yet seen
-that Israel the Nation, (including King David himself) had/has massive amounts of prophecy, much of which has yet to be fulfilled

You will need to argue that ALL OF THIS (pertaining to National Israel) is an anomaly, is a work of the flesh, and was/is not actually part of God's overall plan.

Which of course....is utterly absurd.

I heard the following once and it makes sense according to Scripture. Christ died for the sins of the whole world. However, there is one sin that is unforgivable, blasphemy. So people who don’t believe in Christ are not forgiven of that sin and that is why they are condemned. It actually lines up with John 3:18.

Deliver the soul...save the soul...

And Paul's letters are to the church, the body of Christ, mainly Gentiles.

They will further deny that the twelve apostles were sent to the Jews only. That Paul was an apostle specifically sent to the Gentiles. They will deny that Jesus was only sent to the Jews. That Paul preached to the Jews first and then to the Gentiles.

That is exactly what happened. "The house of Israel" is not referencing "the nation of Israel", but is referencing Jacob as Israel, because God changed Jacob's name to be no more called Jacob, but to be called Israel. (Gen 32:28). Jacob as Israel represents all of God's elect (Rom 9:11). which are from every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation (Rev 5:9).

Acts 2:36 - When a person is born again, God exchanges their heart from a heart of stone to a fleshy heart that is soft enough to be "pricked" to feel guilty. These Jews to whom Peter is preaching to are already born again by evidence of their new fleshy heart that was "pricked". and they replied to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "men and brethren, what must we do".

In contrast to the fleshy heart's reply, those with the heart of stone, that heard Stephen preach the same sermon were "cut to the heart" and gnashed on him with their teeth, and stoned him to death (Acts 7:54).

Faith always comes before regeneration. Reformed people (Calvinists) are gravely mistaken. I am advocating against Calvinism because Calvinism is HERESY. 👍

So the Blood of Christ is insufficient to Save the Whole World...? People have to add to it in order for it to be sufficient...?

I absolutely disagree. The Blood of Christ is ABSOLUTELY sufficient to Atone for ALL THE SINS of the Whole World.


I suppose you probably already saw this response coming...

They actually have regeneration before salvation.
I'm not advocating for or against calvinism, but I'm amazed that so many against Calvinism are errant in their understanding of it.

I absolutely disagree. The Blood of Christ is ABSOLUTELY sufficient to Atone for ALL THE SINS of the Whole World.

Eternal deliverance was accomplished by Jesus's death on the cross. (John 6:39). His death was a sacrifice to God, for God's acceptance, and not to mankind, for mankind's acceptance.

All of God's elect are born into this world, by natural birth, dead in their sins, and full of wrath, even as others, until God quickens them to a new spiritual life (Eph 2:1-5).

Jesus Christ clearly says that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable. You believe otherwise. Have a nice day. 😊

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Jesus only atoned for the sins of those that God gave to him (John 6:39). (J0hn 10:28).

Not believing isn't exactly blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is attributing the Work of the Holy Spirit to devils.

Not believing is ABSOLUTELY forgivable.

Mark 9:23-27
23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
25 When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.
26 And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, He is dead.
27 But Jesus took him by the hand, and lifted him up; and he arose.