How many People Think the Jews Could Be Wrong?

John Darby had many things wrong.

I am a Pre-Tribulation Born Again Believer. It could happen any moment.

Only Christian with Heart Knowledge of Jesus Christ will be Raptured.

Only Head Knowledge of Jesus Christ is not genuine Salvation, even the demons believe that much.

Here is a verse that that SPELLS OUT pretrib Rapture:

Matthew 25:13 (NCV)
13 “So always be ready, because you don’t know the day or the hour the Son of Man will come.

I listened to his sermon to get the context. It's available in it's entirety if you want to determine for yourself. He was not quoting the LORD, or speaking as God told Moses in Exodus 4:15.
The only other alternative that I can think of is that he was teaching the "we are gods" heresy otherwise known as "little gods" heresy like Cre flow Dollar, Benny Hinn, Joyce Meyer, and many other TV preachers.
The Shirley McClain comment brought him to mind. I just listened to her say that on YouTube prior to checking in here. It was totally unrelated because I was looking up a christian documentary on UFOs and didn't read this part of the thread prior to that.. The real God often does things like that, doesn't He?
☕🙂👍

Total fail there. And a full load of crazy talk.

And coming from the person who unashamedly admits to total ignorance of biblical prophecy.

Shirley might have been saying she was just a little god compared to the big God almighty.

I dunno. Why dont we ask her.

Oh fount of all wisdom, Ms Maclaine, what drugs were you taking when you made that claim?

I don't know who Shirley McClain, or any of those preachers,

But in Greek Catholicism ("Eastern Orthodox") there is a concept of theosis or deification, which is basically the equivalent of sanctification. As far as I can tell, I think things get lost in translation and that the speakers often just means sanctification.

I noticed the algorithms are wacky sometimes. I have a hunch that the owners of the algorithms try to push people away from Christianity.

Like God telling Moses that He made him a god to Pharaoh? (Exodus 7:1). Or Jesus making references to people as gods? (John 10:34).

It's possible that that is all they meant by "little god". I don't know Shirley McClain. I don't know the context.

This has nothing to do with anything you said prior to my initial comment, because I haven't read that half of the thread. I was just surprised to see Shirley McClain's name come up here right after watching her movie scene. She was an actress who had some fame in the 70s and 80s. Then she wanted to be a new age guru, so she produced and stared in a movie promoting her religion. She was followed by Oprah and a bunch of other actors/ actresses. One dogma that new agers commonly believe is that of pantheistic and self divinity.

Careful, that is how False Teaching creeps into the Church. Later on, when you forget who said it, I heard somewhere, AND it is false teaching.

Careful about what?
Explain please

I have been very clear in my previous posts on this page. I took the time to explain my problem with those New Age and wicked TV false prophets. Come out and say what you mean. Here is the clip again of Steven Furticks concert for all to hear. I'm Not singing along.
The Steven Furtick Blasphemy Concert

OK. So since many 1st century Jews had head knowledge of Christ, but were blind in the heart to Christ, the only way they could be raptured is if they accept Christ in their heart?

"But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away." - 2 Cor 3:14-16 KJV

The RCC perspective, and many Protestant perspectives, point to the idea that you aim not to have any lingering sin that you haven't sought forgiveness for yet. The RCC breaks it down in mortal sin and venial sin (and many Protestant groups follow a similar consideration). The idea is that an unrepentant murderer bears mortal sin that endangers him to hellfire, where an unrepented venial sin can be any number of minor sins and trespasses (e.g. not loving your neighbour) that become resolved in purification after death (purgatory in the RCC).

The 'readiness' in that sense is about always being in mindset of looking for God's forgiveness, like the publican beating his chest, rather than the Pharisee claiming that his acts of repentance themselves are sufficient to put him in good standing. You never know when God will call you.

The foolish maidens always thought there would be more time to prepare themselves. And so when they lay down to sleep (sleep is often a metaphor for unconscious death), the foolish one were out of luck, not having prepared themselves correctly while they were awake, and the wise ones did prepare themselves correctly for the Lord.

I don't think pre-trib rapture models dispute the premise above. I think the tie-in still comes back to "When does Christ return?" And this passage by itself doesn't address the timing relative to the Great Tribulation.

Mat 25:13 does not spell out pre-trib rapture at all.

I absolutely believe 100% in a Pre-Trib Rapture. We are going to the Wedding of the LAMB, in HEAVEN. Don't you know that ? I already have my Invite to the Wedding, in my HEART.

I don't think Doubters get an Invite.

Revelation 19:9 (NIV)
9 Then the angel said to me, "Write: 'Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!'" And he added, "These are the true words of God."

And after the Tribulation is over, WE WILL COME BY WITH HIM IN THE LEAD, to Set Up the Millennial KINGDOM.

Zechariah 14:5 (NIV)
5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.

Revelation 19:11-14 (NIV)
11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war.
12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself.
13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.
14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean.



We Believe what the Bible actually SAYS ! ! !

Apparently you believe something else entirely.

My wife, had to stop riding horses, in her 20's, due to a back injury; and SHE BELIEVED THIS VERSE THE SAME AS I DO. ONE OF HER FAVORITE VERSES to read over and over again. And she would say, "The Lord is going to give me a horse to ride again!"

Then you believe as I do, Kenneth Copeland has Satanic Eyes. All I was saying, is write it down were you here them making a False Statement. When you get my age, it is hard to remember where that statement came from. Short and Long term memories goes BYE, BYE.

Ok, I'll try to remember that.
Thank you for the clarification.
🙂👍

None of this touches on anything I was talking about.

Then you and everyone of those who believes like you, will be GREATLY DISAPPOINTED.

Their is not a purgatory.

The Blind will remain blinded. EXCEPT FOR A LOT OF THE JEWS they will RECOGNIZE JESUS IS THERE MESSIAH in a single day.

You Have to be BORN AGAIN, or there is no salvation.

NO AMOUNT OF WORKS CAN SAVE YOU.

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

Titus 3:5-7 (HCSB)
5 He saved us- not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy,
through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
6 He poured out this Spirit on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the
hope of eternal life.

Acts 13:48 (NRSV)
48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and praised the word of the Lord; and as many as had been destined for eternal life became believers.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (NJB)
8 Because it is by grace that you have been saved, through faith; not by anything of your own, but by a gift from God;
9 not by anything that you have done, so that nobody can claim the credit.

Ephesians 1:11-14 (HCSB)
11 We have also received an inheritance in Him, predestined according to the purpose of the One who works out everything in agreement with the decision of His will,
12 so that we who had already put our hope in the Messiah might bring praise to His glory.
13 When you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed in Him, you were also sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.
14 He is the down payment of our inheritance, for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of His glory.

Do you know why ? ? ? I Suspect you have never been Born Again. You have to be Born Again, to understand it.

Eligibility should be able to be understood by scripture itself.

It is possible that if a person of Israel under the old covenant ate leavened bread at the wrong time of the year that they would forever be cut off from Israel. There don't appear to be any passages that deal with "grafting back in" aside from Rom 11. And Rom 11 may or may not be talking about Israel as the root. If Rom 11 is talking about Israel as the root, it means that all Christians regardless of origin are included in Israel. This is a large part of where "the Church is Israel" perspective comes from. And from the new conditions of grafting, the OT ordinances no longer apply to those under the new covenant (eating leavened bread at the wrong time of the year would not cut you off from Israel).

Supposing the root isn't talking about Israel, a person cut off from Israel per Ex 12:15 could then be grafted into the root without necessarily rejoining Israel.

I don't agree that "all Israel" would necessarily be talking about containing only ethnic Israel in a way that you might think. If we consider the fact that a foreigner could be taken as a wife, and husband and wife become one in flesh, it reasons to stand that the wife then becomes ethnic Israel by that union.

The analogy was more for the sake of whether across all nations would mean 'every' nation or 'any' nation. I find it more compelling to interpret the phrases as 'any' because of the 'whither' clauses, but for the sake of conversation, I'm willing to suspend what I find compelling in order to explore what you are proposing to be the case. We can proceed with looking at the interpretation that "across all nations" would mean 'every' and test against scripture to see if it holds. And if consistent, look at the ramifications, then weigh it to see if we still find it compelling or convincing.

If we look at the Deuteronomy order of events:

"For when I shall have brought them into the land which I sware unto their fathers, that floweth with milk and honey; and they shall have eaten and filled themselves, and waxen fat; then will they turn unto other gods, and serve them, and provoke me, and break my covenant." - Deut 31:20 KJV

This tells us that first they will enter the land sworn to their fathers, then a falling away.

"And the Lord shall make thee plenteous in goods, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy ground, in the land which the Lord sware unto thy fathers to give thee." - Deut 28:11 KJV

This was one of the blessings, and it doesn't state that the land is fully possessed, only that these things will happen in the land.

"And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the Lord thy God hath driven thee, And the Lord thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers." - Deut 30:1&5 KJV

Curse and blessings to pass.

"And the Lord said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them." - Deut 31:16 KJV

The blessings and curses happen after Moses death when they are brought into the land (the book of Joshua, etc.).

"I said, I would scatter them into corners, I would make the remembrance of them to cease from among men:" - Deut 32:26 KJV

This is an interesting point that it is possible for people to forget who they are.

...
Some passages that might be relevant:

"Thou hast given us like sheep appointed for meat; and hast scattered us among the heathen." - Psalm 44:11 KJV

"Hear the word of the Lord, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock." - Jer 31:10 KJV

"Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord God; I will even gather you [house of Israel] from the people, and assemble you out of the countries where ye have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel." - Ezekiel 11:17 KJV

" And the Lord gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein." - Joshua 21:43 KJV

Do you have a passage you are referencing to say that Dan's people would be Jews exclusively? I'm not sure what you are referencing to begin with, but as I said before, "elect", or "God's chosen", or "holy people" is not exclusive to OT Jews and is not inclusive of any modern antiChrist Jews destined not to accept Christ.

I think you would rather goad people into an emotional response than have a legitimate conversation. You are largely avoiding the legitimate conversations about traceability between your ideas and scripture because you know your ideas don't come from scripture.

I have no idea what you are going on about. It has nothing to do with anything I said.

No, my Beliefs are BASED on Solid Evidence in the Scriptures.

John 3:3 (ESV)
3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

John 3:5-7 (ESV)
5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water {Natural Birth out of the womb.} and the Spirit, {Spiritual Birth, The Holy Spirit Causes that Birth, and Immerses us into the Spiritual Body of Christ.} he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’

It is the only way to Heaven that I know of, Without a Born Again Spirit, you are not going. It has been like that all along, a FREE GIFT OF GOD.

With me when I was born again, it was like I had two minds, One in my Head, that wants its own way, ONE IN MY HEART, that only wants GOD's Way. As I fed on the WORD OF GOD, my Spiritual Mind became stronger, and stronger. Eventually my Spiritual Mind became Dominate over the Fleshly Mind. Yes I still sin, but not as often as before. Now mostly thoughts, yes they are sins too. You have to be BORN OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, to go to heaven. That happens when YOU willingly, Out of LOVE FOR HIM, give HIM control of your heart; a complete surrender to HIM, never to take it back. You cannot do that unless the HOLY SPIRIT Empowers you to do it.

You have continually gone off the rails here. I asked you where you got your "one seat in the temple" concept. Instead of answering, you completely changed the topic to pre-trib rapture. And when asked where your ideas about that come from, you derailed the conversation again so you could talk about being Born Again.

It isn't clear to me what a pre-trib rapture would have to do with a single temple seat, or what being born again would have to do with a pre-trib rapture.

You still haven't admitted to where your "one seat in the temple" concept comes from. You still haven't admitted to where your pre-trib rapture concept comes from. It isn't from Christian scripture and you know it.

I asked you if you are a Dispensationalist. You didn't exactly say no.

Will you concede the point that you are falsely presenting concepts as though they come straight from scripture? Can you at least have the integrity to concede that you are just presenting speculative theories on scripture rather than concrete concepts that are necessitated by scripture?