How many People Think the Jews Could Be Wrong?

It's entirely possible I'm missing something. My hope is to learn something if I am missing something.

If the concatenation is necessary and not spectulative.

Here are the time specific passages in Dan 9:

"In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the seed of the Medes, which was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans; In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem." - Dan 9:1-2 KJV

"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks [69 weeks]: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate." - Dan 9:24-27 KJV


70 weeks is aproximately 1&1/3 years. Where is your '360' multiplier coming from?


No. That contradicts Acts 1.

Jesus was weeping over Jerusalem, speaking of the city's destruction (not one stone unturned) that it was blind to. I don't see how this relates to timelines, aside from the observation that it would be destroyed.

Since the '360' multiplier doesn't make sense, this date doesn't make sense.


2Ki 25:1 and Jer 39:1 are talking about the same event, are they not?

This is also the same event, and the seige lasts until Zedekiah's eleventh year.

This again is the same event.


The passages you cited are concurrent. Where are you getting 70 years from?

If you are noting that a number is repeated many times in various books and that repetition has some sort of prophetic meaning, that's numerology.


"Consider now from this day and upward, from the four and twentieth day of the ninth month, even from the day that the foundation of the Lord's temple was laid, consider it." - Hag 2:18 KJV

What are you trying to say with this passage?

i think each 'week' is equivalent to 7 years

I am an evangelical type of Christian, and I have no problem with using Josephus, for a historical perspective on the Holy Land.

One of the Best and Theological Seminary's in this country, is Dallas Theological Seminary. And apparently they have no problem using Josephus as part of their Bible History classes. I sounds like you have been influenced by a Jewish sect that Hates Josephus.


Greg Herrick

Greg lives in Calgary Alberta, Canada with his wife and 4 kids. He has a passion to teach and disciple others, and holds a Th.M. and Ph.D. from Dallas Theological Seminary. Greg is currently serving as Project Director for the knowingGod.org.


I think I found the QUOTE from JOSEPHUS that in all probability is one you that cause most of your objections, because you want to believe TEMPLE is on the TEMPLE MOUNT, don't you ? ? ?

DID YOU NOTICE THAT ON THIS FACT SHEET FROM JOSEPHUS:

But if we go the other way westward, it began at the same place; and extended through a place called Bethso, to the gate of the Essenes: and after that it went southward: having its bending above the fountain Siloam; where it also bends again towards the east at Solomon’s pool, and reaches as far as a certain place which they called Ophlas [what they called the OPHEL], where it was joined to the eastern cloister of the temple. The second wall took its beginning from that gate which they called Gennath, which belonged to the first wall. It only encompassed the northern quarter of the city, and reached as far as the tower Antonia. - Josephus The Jewish War Book V chapter 4

Josephus placed the TEMPLE on the OPHEL, not on top of the so-called Temple Mount.


Believe what you want to, and when we get to Heaven, we will go ask him. I am quit confident, he will say, "I always tell the truth, and that is a True as they come."

“And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; and in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; and his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; the mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭1:12-20‬ ‭

the reason revelation makes any sense at all is because of the earthly patterns that he showed through Moses if we look at the above section of revelation it speaks volumes To us if we know the patterns of the law

“being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; and in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.”

This is the revelation of the true high priest Jesus , who’s attending the candlestick in tbe inner room before the veil within the temple in heaven

The reason we know this is because of the patterns laid out to Moses in the law that’s why it makes any sense but revelation is revealing what those patterns really signify the reality of them so you have a pattern long established in the law of Moses

There’s a total description of the church noted in the candlestick of good and Jesus who’s among the church trending us as high priest keeping our light burning this is just a small example of the pattern in the law

“And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto Aaron, and say unto him, When thou lightest the lamps, the seven lamps shall give light over against the candlestick. And Aaron did so; he lighted the lamps thereof over against the candlestick, as the LORD commanded Moses.

And this work of the candlestick was of beaten gold, unto the shaft thereof, unto the flowers thereof, was beaten work: according unto the pattern which the LORD had shewed Moses, so he made the candlestick.”
‭‭Numbers‬ ‭8:1

So the priest would light the seven lamps of fire to give light tonthe candlestick of gold having seven branches which had seven lamps to give light the pattern

“And thou shalt make the seven lamps thereof: and they shall light the lamps thereof, that they may give light over against it.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭25:37‬ ‭

The candlestick was set before the mercy seat and a veil was set between the two revelation of what that really is here

“After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭4:1, 5‬ ‭

then progression as that spirit is given to the church ( the candlesticks ) through Christ Jesus the priest attending their lamps

“And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭5:6

that’s why Moses was given the pattern of seven golden candlesticks before the throne with seven lamps of fire constantly burning and being attended by the priest clothed with linen tonthe foot and having a golden girdle these are all patterns established on the ot law so we can understand revelation in the New Testament about Christ

it’s quite amazing when you learn the patterns in the law and then read revelation ot solves the whole mysterious issue with revelation and makes good practical sense

it turns out the Old Testament of the Bible explains the mysterious things in the new and the new reveals what the old was always really saying but now we can hear it receiving the spirit by faith

the scripture you mean ? Yes I do actually believe what it says even if I didn’t always think it when younger nd prouder , I learn what it says I accept what’s there so yes I do believe it

But for clarity which part do you not accept any particular point you’d like to discuss ?

that Jesus is the true temple of God ? And you don’t need a man made temple in Jerusalem to worship him ?

“Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭4:21, 23-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬


That when a person receives the holy spirit of God , they now become a temple for his living spirit ?

“Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:23-24‬ ‭

“What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭6:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬


what parts are you flabbergasted by ? To
Me it’s just basic reading without rejecting because I “already know “ I’m assuming maybe it’s this part ?

“But ye are they that forsake the LORD, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for that troop, and that furnish the drink offering unto that number. Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.

And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name: that he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.

For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:11-12, 15-17‬

some folks have issues brother tbat a testament was broken and resulted in a curse d then another was promised and later given by Jesus but yeah I do believe most of anything I write here , doesn’t mean you have to believe it though brother so there was no offense intended usually when scripture is presented it does cause a lot of conflict because we all have conclusions that don’t always match what is actually written

173,880 days (69 weeks of 360 day years) from March 14th 445BC (the decree of Artaxerxes Longimanus - Nehemiah ch2) to the triumphal entry.

Ezekiel was written when the Jews were in babylonian captivity. So I believe its pages prophesy the order of events following their return to the land (Nehemiah), through to the destruction of Jerusalem (70AD), to the resurrection of the dead and their final return to the land.

The passage below is the famed valley of dry bones chapter, which I believe prophesied the same resurrection event predicted by Paul in Thessalonians.


Ezekiel 37:11-12
11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.

12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.


Now of course, if this is the prophesied resurrection event - which we know hasn't happened yet - it would suggest that the regathering of Israel back to the land also hasn't happened yet, as both the resurrection and regathering are tied together...so the group currently in the land are not Israel even though they claim to be.

God Himself is marking out precisely 70 years. To the day.

Ezekiel 4 prophecy = 430 years total. Minus 70 years time served = 360. Leviticus 26 "seven more times for your sins".

360*7 = 2520 years. Which matches both the 606BC first siege of Nebuchadnezzar "captivity of the nation" (we don't know the exact day) to the restoration of the nation Israel.

And the 586BC 3rd siege of Nebuchadnezzar "desolations of Jerusalem" (we DO KNOW the exact day - see my earlier post) to the retaking of Jerusalem.

BOTH incidences are......2520 years apart.

BTW....the apostle Paul was at Thessalonica for only like 3 weeks. And one of the FIRST things he taught them was end-time prophecy. But of course it is Church end-time prophecy which is the RAPTURE.

We never see the 70th week of Daniel aka the Tribulation. We are already in Heaven, illustrated in Rev ch 4& 5.

I had to look that up, with the entire "seven sevens"

Much thanks for the insight!

1) no
2) definitely

I'm just a rookie at OT prophesy. Looking at KJV, the entire "sevens" week or year concept isn't apparent until looking at the Hebrew.

I'm not familiar with Josephus aside from the fact that he was a first century scholar of some kind that is referenced for the 70 AD seige of Jerusalem. That's outside of scripture, but we can look at it for interest. E.g. even though it may not be referenced directly in scripture, a historical acceptance of a 70 AD destruction of the temple seems unobjectionable.

What I'm looking for is some kind of Biblical evidence that there would be a rebuilt earthly temple after 70 AD. What purpose would it serve? Why would there be a temple in Christ and an earthly temple?

I see many people try to make the argument that the contemporary geopolitical state that calls itself Israel is somehow a fulfilment of a prophesy and would lead to a rebuilt temple but every time I ask for the scripture to demonstrate that I find exegetic flaws in their approach. I find many of those flawed exegetics ultimately had been tainted by Talmudic Judaism and their interpretations of prophesy, contrary to Christian scripture.

I would like someone to explain exactly what would necessitate a rebuilding of temple (e.g. is it only 2 Thes 2, or is there more to this?), and to explain what would disallow Eph 2:19-22 from fulfilling that temple prophecy?

I don't understand what you mean by the temple vs temple mount distinction.

"I'm just a rookie at OT prophesy"......no doubt in my mind.

"contrary to Christian scripture.".......the vast majority of the Bible was written by Israelites.

"contemporary geopolitical state that calls itself Israel is somehow a fulfilment of a prophesy and would lead to a rebuilt temple"
Not somehow......definitely. Obviously.

If I'm understanding this correctly, it happened to at least to some degree during the resurrection of the saints following the crucifixion.

If we were to tie this to something other than the crucifixion resurrection of saints, I would think the next most likely candidate would be the 1000 year kingdom with the resurrection of those in Christ.

And I agree, I don't see any evidence that the modern geopolitical state that calls itself Israel would fulfil any prophesy.

I'd have to doublecheck the 445 BC point, but yes, that would point to Christ at 38 AD.

Can you reformat this using specific citations to scripture?

And when you aren't referencing scripture (e.g. some extra-Biblical scholar), can you make that clear?

EXCEPT in Daniel chapter 9, it equals a WEEK OF YEARS.

April 6th 32AD bro......

Do an internet search using the keywords I provided. You will find what you are looking for.

Yes, there may be an element of speculation. But there is little doubt about the RESULTS.

As for me......I am quite convinced 2520 years is bona fide.

If you are not a rookie, all the much more to learn from folks such as yourself.

Your comment here makes no sense. I stated "Christian scripture" to distinguish it from Talmudic scripture which approaches the OT with entirely different (incompatible) exegetics.

Breakdown your post 48 more clearly so that I can properly assess your argument.