Is Baptism necessary for Salvation?

Nor did I say you did.


I wonder how many times it needs to be said that one example was not true for
all cases, since the Holy Spirit was given to some before they were water baptized.

You want a cookie-cutter Jesus.

well I can..

but I am wondering what you think of someone saying you are not saved if you have not been water baptized

I don't want or need to get 'into it' with someone else...no offense

You cannot prove that, so it is, in fact, just your opinion.

The scriptures prove it. Start with Luke 3:16 and Luke 24:47-49 both restated in Acts 1:4-5. What's it say? One will come that will baptize with the Holy Ghost and with fire, in Luke 3:16, and in Luke 24:47-49, it says repentance and remission of sins should be preached starting at Jerusalem and to tarry there until they received power ftom on high. And what's Acts 1:4-5,say? It restates both of these.

4And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

And in Luke 24:47-49, who was this addressed to? Starting in verse 36 of Luke 24, Jesus appears to the apostles and verses 47-49 is his instructions to them, the apostles.

47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48And ye are witnesses of these things. 49And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Then Acts 1:8 says the following

8But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth

It's clear that the falling of the Holy Ghost with fire was meant fir the apostles asxwell as the power from on high and that this occurred as recorded in Acts 2; read it all carefully.

Futher, Acts 10 was also a unique demonstration of the Holy Ghost and unilaterally by the Holy Ghost falling on the Gentiles first and unlike Acts 2 where it fell on the apostles, but also as a sign and validation from on high which there validated it was God's plan to bring the Gentiles into the body of Christ. In thst case, it was validation to Peter and company. It fell on the Gentiles prior to baptism but the were then immediately baptized. Why? Because that's how you become part of the Lord's body; you're baptized into Christ as noted in scripture such as Acts 2:38-47 and elsewhere.

The power from on high and the miraculous manifestation of the gifts of the Spirit, not the Spirit itself, but it's gifts as noted in 1 Cor 12:8-10, are manifested by the laying on ofvthe APOSTLE'S hands as noted in Acts 6:6, Acts 8:18 and Acts 19:6, and it was the apostles who performed the miraculous gifts of the Spirit as noted in Acts 5:12 and those that thry laid theirvhands on duch as Stephen as noted previously.

The scriptures prove themselves; I don't have to prove anything and only point in the right direction as well as clarify and explain so it's easier to follow the scripture trail.

The scriptures prove it. Start with Luke 3:16 and Luke 24:47-49 both restated in Acts 1:4-5. What's it say? One will come that will baptize with the Holy Ghost and with fire, in Luke 3:16, and in Luke 24:47-49, it says repentance and remission of sins should be preached starting at Jerusalem and to tarry there until they received power ftom on high. And what's Acts 1:4-5,say? It restates both of these.

4And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

And in Luke 24:47-49, who was this addressed to? Starting in verse 36 of Luke 24, Jesus appears to the apostles and verses 47-49 is his instructions to them, the apostles.

47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48And ye are witnesses of these things. 49And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Then Acts 1:8 says the following

8But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth

It's clear that the falling of the Holy Ghost with fire was meant fir the apostles asxwell as the power from on high and that this occurred as recorded in Acts 2; read it all carefully.

Futher, Acts 10 was also a unique demonstration of the Holy Ghost and unilaterally by the Holy Ghost falling on the Gentiles first and unlike Acts 2 where it fell on the apostles, but also as a sign and validation from on high which there validated it was God's plan to bring the Gentiles into the body of Christ. In thst case, it was validation to Peter and company. It fell on the Gentiles prior to baptism but the were then immediately baptized. Why? Because that's how you become part of the Lord's body; you're baptized into Christ as noted in scripture such as Acts 2:38-47 and elsewhere.

The power from on high and the miraculous manifestation of the gifts of the Spirit, not the Spirit itself, but it's gifts as noted in 1 Cor 12:8-10, are manifested by the laying on ofvthe APOSTLE'S hands as noted in Acts 6:6, Acts 8:18 and Acts 19:6, and it was the apostles who performed the miraculous gifts of the Spirit as noted in Acts 5:12 and those that thry laid theirvhands on duch as Stephen as noted previously.

The scriptures prove themselves; I don't have to prove anything and only point in the right direction as well as clarify and explain so it's easier to follow the scripture trail.

Ok.. no problem. If you don't want to explain, I understand.

Polar said:
well I can..

but I am wondering what you think of someone saying you are not saved if you have not been water baptized

I don't want or need to get 'into it' with someone else...no offense

I haven't followed your posts so I don't know

but you didn't answer me either

Futher, Acts 10 was also a unique demonstration of the Holy Ghost and unilaterally by the Holy Ghost falling on the Gentiles first and unlike Acts 2 where it fell on the apostles, but also as a sign and validation from on high which there validated it was God's plan to bring the Gentiles into the body of Christ. In thst case, it was validation to Peter and company.

no distinction between us and them

Just wondering if you have ever noticed this:


“The apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider this matter. And after there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us, and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭15:6-9‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://www.bible.com/59/act.15.6-9.esv

Doesn’t this passage show that the elders present received the Holy Spirit in the same manner as the Apostles and the house of Cornelius? It says no distinction was made between any of them.

“As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them just as on us at the beginning. And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ If then God gave the same gift to them as he gave to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God’s way?””
‭‭Acts‬ ‭11:15-17‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://www.bible.com/59/act.11.15-17.esv

In this passage “us” and “we” refer back to the circumcision party. Also, here we see that the Holy Spirit was received upon belief by the circumcision party and the house of Cornelius.

Is there any other way to see this?

As I posted, we have a clear command from the Lord. You claim to stand on scripture and only scripture but you don't. You stand on scripture when it suits your purpose.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Those are your words. Be specific.

the 'actual' Holy Ghost'?

is there a doppelganger? maybe an understudy?

what is it you believe exactly?

You could go back a couple of pages to post 1253 if you truly want to know.


Usually when someone answers a direct question with another question, it indicates an un-willingness to be specific.
I inferred from your post that you think that baptism is somehow a "work"..... instead of being simply obedience to a direct command.
"Doing" something in order to EARN salvation would be what I would call a "work", and we cannot earn salvation.
Doing something in response to a command is not a "work", it is obedience.
Jesus told us to feed the hungry and clothe the naked..... if we do those things, do you consider them to be "works" ? Odd that scripture tells us that faith without works is dead...

When Peter said to repent and be baptized... how is repentance not a work, but baptism is?

It is shown to us many, many times in scripture that baptism is an essential part of joining the body of Christ. You can pick individual scriptures all you want that don't mention baptism, but if you rightly divide the word of God, and take everything that is said about salvation, you cannot help but see that baptism is essential. IF you are honest...

You receive the Holy Ghost according to Acts 2:38. It doesn't say you receive gifts (plural) it says you receive THE gift of the Holy Ghost, not gifts of or from the Holy Ghost. It's the spirit itself that we all receive by promise. You can see by reading the scriptures some of which I posted, how people received the gifts, like prophesy, or tongues, etc., which happened as the result of the laying on of the apostle's hands.

Oh I see. So water WAS absolutely essential (dunked daubed or sprinkled?). But now you have moved the goalposts and it is actually OBEDIENCE that is the essential work we must ourselves provide before God sees fit to redeem us.

Make up your mind bro....

Excuse me? The Lord Jesus has ALREADY LONG BEEN resurrected at this point.

Mat 28:19
“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

None of that proves that nobody ever receives the Holy Spirit before water baptism.