Is Baptism necessary for Salvation?

[ForestGreenCook]

I see the example of Noah being that he and his family were saved from sin (the world) by the washing of water (the flood).
Sin was "washed away" through the flood, and only Noah and his family were "saved/delivered".... therefore, they were saved "through water".
I believe this is the parallel being drawn between baptism and Noah... just as sin was washed away by the flood, sin is also washed away through the waters of baptism.

The only redemption from sin, and the security of an inheritance of heaven, was accomplished on the cross by Jesus Christ for all of those that his Father gave to him, (John 6:39) who are a part of those from Adam to the last person to be born by natural birth in this world.

If you apply all of the salvation (deliverance) scriptures to be referencing eternal deliverance, they will teach that eternal salvation is accomplished by our good works.

There are many deliverances (salvations) that the child of God receives as he sojourns here on earth, by his good works.

Noah was not delivered (saved) from his sins by the flood, but was delivered (saved) from drowning. Just as baptism delevers (saves) us from our guilty conscience.

 

[ResidentAlien]

As I posted for someone else, the only examples we have subsequent to the Lord's death is baptism in the name of Jesus Christ and not the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. It's Jesus that died. It's his body we're baptized into. It's his church which is his body.

As I posted, we have a clear command from the Lord. You claim to stand on scripture and only scripture but you don't. You stand on scripture when it suits your purpose.

 

[cv5]

As I posted for someone else, the ???only examples??? we have subsequent to the Lord's death is baptism in the name of Jesus Christ and not the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. It's Jesus that died. It's his body we're baptized into. It's his church which is his body.

Excuse me? The Lord Jesus has ALREADY LONG BEEN resurrected at this point.

Mat 28:19
“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

 

[Polar]

It doesn't really matter at all whatost people think. It's what the scriptures say in plain English.

sounds like you are on a loop

zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[Polar]

What's next? Those who fail to participate in the Lords supper on some kind of a rigorous schedule are not saved either? Church attendance goes wonky and its over for you?

The fact is......both are remembrances of the underlying reality bro. And baptism is nothing more than a ritual typifying death of the old man. There is zero salvific value in dousing with water or maple syrup or anything else.

here I was believing that faith was the key

some folks here are very good at changing the narrative when the mistake of the error they believe singes their thoughts

sure we should be obedient...but and again, we see from scripture it is faith in Christ and not our (patting ourselves on the back) obedience to our beliefs that save us.

I say 'to the pond with the lot of you' ..towels and soap will be provided

it's just a never ending sing song attempt at brain washing....so tiresome

pointless, especially when you learn that not only is baptism presented as cleansing from all sin, but it's also Oneness Pentecostal that is driving the bus...the Jesus only folk...that's error right there, never mind the ritual water baths

 

[hornetguy]

don't confuse me with all those other scriptures..... I have my ONE scripture that says what I want it to say.... and that's all I need!

Webster's definition....
Definition of eisegesis

: the interpretation of a text (as of the Bible) by reading into it one's own ideas

 

[Wansvic]

What's next? Those who fail to participate in the Lords supper on some kind of a rigorous schedule are not saved either? Church attendance goes wonky and its over for you?

The fact is......both are remembrances of the underlying reality bro. And baptism is nothing more than a ritual typifying death of the old man. There is zero salvific value in dousing with water or maple syrup or anything else.

Water baptism in the name of Jesus is a necessary part of the rebirth experience for those living in the NT. It was first presented, and became a reality for those on the Day of Pentecost. (Acts 2:36:42) Being reborn spiritually is a one time experience. Whereas things such as the Lord's supper are done on a "regular" basis in remembrance of the sacrifice Jesus made.

 

[Magenta]

Water baptism in the name of Jesus is a necessary part of the rebirth experience for those
living in the NT. It was first presented, and became a reality for those on the Day of Pentecost.
(Acts 2:36:42) Being reborn spiritually is a one time experience. Whereas things such as the
Lord's supper are done on a "regular" basis in remembrance of the sacrifice Jesus made.

There is no record in Scripture attesting to the fact that the original apostles were water baptized post-Pentecost.

 

[Wansvic]

here I was believing that faith was the key

some folks here are very good at changing the narrative when the mistake of the error they believe singes their thoughts

sure we should be obedient...but and again, we see from scripture it is faith in Christ and not our (patting ourselves on the back) obedience to our beliefs that save us.

I say 'to the pond with the lot of you' ..towels and soap will be provided

it's just a never ending sing song attempt at brain washing....so tiresome

pointless, especially when you learn that not only is baptism presented as cleansing from all sin, but it's also Oneness Pentecostal that is driving the bus...the Jesus only folk...that's error right there, never mind the ritual water baths

Yep. Faith is trusting in Jesus and what He says is true. As such, obedience to the message brings about the result He said it would.

 

[Polar]

Yep. Faith is trusting in Jesus and what He says is true. As such, obedience to the message brings about the result He said it would.

you are trusting in your works

that is faith in yourself

sorry, still not going to get into one of those copy/paste wars with you

I don't believe in your cause

 

[Wansvic]

There is no record in Scripture attesting to the fact that the original apostles were water baptized post-Pentecost.

I did not say there was. However, what we do know from scripture is Peter stated EVERYONE was required to submit to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus for remission of sin. (Acts 36:42) Also relevant to the point is the 12 Ephesians who had submitted to John's water baptism were required to be baptized again. They were baptized a second time in the name of the Lord Jesus, and afterward they received the Holy Ghost. (Acts 19:1-6)

 

[Magenta]

I did not say there was.

Nor did I say you did.

However, what we do know from scripture is Peter stated EVERYONE was required to submit to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus for remission of sin. (Acts 36:42) Also relevant to the point is the 12 Ephesians who had submitted to John's water baptism were required to be baptized again. They were baptized a second time in the name of the Lord Jesus, and afterward they received the Holy Ghost. (Acts 19:1-6)

I wonder how many times it needs to be said that one example was not true for
all cases, since the Holy Spirit was given to some before they were water baptized.

You want a cookie-cutter Jesus.

 

[hornetguy]

you are trusting in your works

can you clarify what you mean by that statement?

 

[DJT_47]

Mystical incantations and processes do not save. They have never saved anybody. And the bogus cults and demonic religions depend upon them to keep their practitioners mollified.

Think about that.

Nor did I say you did.


I wonder how many times it needs to be said that one example was not true for
all cases, since the Holy Spirit was given to some before they were water baptized.

You want a cookie-cutter Jesus.

The only two recorded instances were Acts 2 and Acts 10 and in both cases the Holy Ghost fell uniquely and for a specific reason abd without the laying on of the apostle's hands. In both cases, it was to establish tge church, 1st in Jerusalem amongst the Jews, and then in Caesarea amongst the Gentiles. Itcwas fir a heavenly sign to validate what was happening. If this is used by anyone as a supposed example of the spirit falling before baptism as the common occurrence or as happening today, they are badly mistaken and are not understanding the scriptures. We all that are baptized into Christ receive the Holy Ghost but not in a miraculous fashion in accordance with Acts 2:38. The actual Holy Ghost is not the same as the gifts as noted in 1 Cor 12:8-10, which are of a miraculous nature and are manifested by the Holy Ghost after the laying on of the apostle's hands, such as Stephen as noted in Acts 6. Read Acts 1 and 2 carefully and trace the power from on high back to Luke 24:47.

 

[DJT_47]

The water is not the point. It is the obedience to the God-given command, associated with Jesus' sacrifice, that results in bringing about what God said it would. You either believe Him or you don't.

You are spot on. Obedience. The gospel must be obeyed and part of the gospel is baptism as was clearly noted in Acts 8 in the conversion of the Ethiopian eunuch, since he asked Philip specifically about it. Read the account.

2 Thes 1:7-8

7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

 

[Magenta]

If this is used by anyone as a supposed example of the spirit falling before baptism as the common
occurrence or as happening today, they are badly mistaken and are not understanding the scriptures.

You cannot prove that, so it is, in fact, just your opinion.

 

[JBTN]

Water baptism in the name of Jesus is a necessary part of the rebirth experience for those living in the NT. It was first presented, and became a reality for those on the Day of Pentecost. (Acts 2:36:42) Being reborn spiritually is a one time experience. Whereas things such as the Lord's supper are done on a "regular" basis in remembrance of the sacrifice Jesus made.

“Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5‬:‭1‬ ‭KJV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/1/1jn.5.1.KJV

How can this verse be true if you are correct?

Also, for Acts 2:36-42, if you translate baptistheto instead of transliterating it you end up with something like this from the CJB translation of the Bible.

“Therefore, let the whole house of Isra’el know beyond doubt that God has made him both Lord and Messiah — this Yeshua, whom you executed on a stake!” On hearing this, they were stung in their hearts; and they said to Kefa and the other emissaries, “Brothers, what should we do?” Kefa answered them, “Turn from sin, return to God, and each of you be immersed on the authority of Yeshua the Messiah into forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Ruach HaKodesh! For the promise is for you, for your children, and for those far away — as many as Adonai our God may call!” He pressed his case with many other arguments and kept pleading with them, “Save yourselves from this perverse generation!” So those who accepted what he said were immersed, and there were added to the group that day about three thousand people. They continued faithfully in the teaching of the emissaries, in fellowship, in breaking bread and in the prayers.”
‭‭Acts of Emissaries of Yeshua (Act)‬ ‭2‬:‭36‬-‭42‬ ‭CJB‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/1275/act.2.36-42.CJB

Simply translating baptistheto makes a dramatic difference in how you understand the verse. And now there is no conflict with 1 John 5:1.

 

[Polar]

The actual Holy Ghost is not the same as the gifts as noted in 1 Cor 12:8-10, which are of a miraculous nature and are manifested by the Holy Ghost after the laying on of the apostle's hands, such as Stephen as noted in Acts 6. Read Acts 1 and 2 carefully and trace the power from on high back to Luke 24:47.

the 'actual' Holy Ghost'?

is there a doppelganger? maybe an understudy?

what is it you believe exactly?

 

[Polar]

can you clarify what you mean by that statement?

well I can..

but I am wondering what you think of someone saying you are not saved if you have not been water baptized

I don't want or need to get 'into it' with someone else...no offense

 

[Mem]

given 2 verses that say, "no one has ascended but Him that has descended" and "no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit," the geometry of a triangle would prove that Jesus is the third side that is equal to these other two...

so then...
Concerning John 3:

Could Nicodemus have misunderstood Jesus, since he asked, "how can this be...?" thinking Jesus was speaking of being born "again" (a second time) when Jesus was speaking of being born from above (which would not necessitate 'a second time)?

as He is the only one born of water and born of Spirit, it is by Him, the witness in heaven and the witness in earth, that the relationship between heaven and earth are reconciled

so then....

we must be in (immersed into) Him to enter into the kingdom of God

I'm not convinced that we do this by water as much as I am sure that we do this by believing in Him and thereby receiving His Name as The One True and Faithful Son of God, sent by Father of God, and confirmed by Holy Spirit of God, and thus becoming one (at the least in agreement and at the best, wholly, restored into God's familial kingdom inheritance) with Them.

And with consideration to the verse in 1 Peter 3 where "this water that symbolizes the baptism that now saves us" is found in the context of suffering for righteousness after Jesus' example, with a pledge of a clear conscience toward God-through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, the idea that "hope of salvation even within suffering (the flood)" is what "this water" symbolizes is congruent with faith in Christ.