THE FIRST BLAST TO AWAKE WOMEN DEGENERATE

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Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
12,668
1,098
113
#61
The wise man Solomon will make the feminists rage! LOL

"Here is what I discovered: A bad woman is worse than death. She is a trap, reaching out with body and soul to catch you. But if you obey God, you can escape. If you don't obey, you are done for. With all my wisdom I have tried to find out how everything fits together, but so far I have not been able to. I do know there is one good man in a thousand, but never have I found a good woman." (Ecc 7:26-28 CEV)
or
"I found something more bitter than death—the woman who is like a trap. The love she offers you will catch you like a net, and her arms around you will hold you like a chain. A man who pleases God can get away, but she will catch the sinner. Yes, said the Philosopher, I found this out little by little while I was looking for answers. I have looked for other answers but have found none. I found one man in a thousand that I could respect, but not one woman." (Ecc 7:26-28 GNB)
or
"I find more bitter than death the woman whose heart is a net to catch and whose hands are fetters. He who is pleasing to God may escape her, but the sinner she will entrap. ‘See,’ says the Speaker, ‘this is what I have found, reasoning things out one by one, after searching long without success: I have found one man in a thousand worthy to be called upright, but I have not found one woman among them all." (Eccl 7:26-28 REB)

Also read from Zechariah -

"Then the angel who talked with me came forward and said to me, 'Look up and see what this is that is coming out.' I said, 'What is it?' He said, 'This is a basket coming out.' And he said, 'This is their iniquity in all the land.' Then a leaden cover was lifted, and there was a woman sitting in the basket! And he said, 'This is Wickedness.' So he thrust her back into the basket, and pressed the leaden weight down on its mouth." (Zech 5:5-8, NRSV)
or
The angel appeared again and said, “Look! Something else is coming!” “What is it?” I asked. He replied, “It is a basket, and it stands for the sin of the whole land.” The basket had a lid made of lead. As I watched, the lid was raised, and there in the basket sat a woman! The angel said, “This represents wickedness.” Then he pushed her down into the basket and put the lid back down. (Zech 5:5-8, GNB)

From the Apocryphal Book of Sirach -
"Any wound, but not a wound of the heart! Any wickedness, but not the wickedness of a woman! Any suffering, but not suffering from those who hate! And any vengeance, but not the vengeance of enemies! There is no venom worse than a snake's venom, and no anger worse than a woman's wrath. I would rather live with a lion and a dragon than live with an evil woman. A woman's wickedness changes her appearance, and darkens her face like that of a bear. Her husband sits among the neighbors, and he cannot help sighing bitterly. Any iniquity is small compared to a woman's iniquity; may a sinner's lot befall her! A sandy ascent for the feet of the aged--such is a garrulous wife to a quiet husband. Do not be ensnared by a woman's beauty, and do not desire a woman for her possessions. There is wrath and impudence and great disgrace when a wife supports her husband. Dejected mind, gloomy face, and wounded heart come from an evil wife. Drooping hands and weak knees come from the wife who does not make her husband happy. From a woman sin had its beginning, and because of her we all die." (Sirach 25:13-24 NRSVA)
I'm noticing the overall theme of misogyny here
It's basically saying that women are bad and all the problems in the world are their fault
 

Ethan1942

Active member
Jul 23, 2022
205
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#62
I'm noticing the overall theme of misogyny here
It's basically saying that women are bad and all the problems in the world are their fault
Yes, and all opposition to gay marriage is homophobia. LOL
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,414
13,761
113
#64
"Then the angel who talked with me came forward and said to me, 'Look up and see what this is that is coming out.' I said, 'What is it?' He said, 'This is a basket coming out.' And he said, 'This is their iniquity in all the land.' Then a leaden cover was lifted, and there was a woman sitting in the basket! And he said, 'This is Wickedness.' So he thrust her back into the basket, and pressed the leaden weight down on its mouth." (Zech 5:5-8, NRSV)
The passage says nothing whatsoever about women in general.

Shall we list all the sinful and, wicked males mentioned in Scripture? That would take too long. How about we limit the list to sinful, wicked male leaders? Shall we conclude then that males should not be in leadership at all, because of the MANY such examples?

If you're going to make an argument from Scripture, be consistent in your application. As it is, your arguments are laughably fallacious.
 

Ethan1942

Active member
Jul 23, 2022
205
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#65
The International Critical Commentary Complete
https://archive.org/details/interna...ry/NT/26. ICC I Corinthians/page/231/mode/2up

Paraphrase of 1 Cor. 11:4-7
"4 Every man, whether married or unmarried, who has any covering on his head when he publicly prays to God or expounds the will of God, thereby dishonours his head : 5 whereas every woman, whether married or unmarried, who has her head uncovered when she publicly prays to God or expounds the will of God, thereby dishonours her head ; for she is then not one whit the better than the wanton whose head is shaven. 6 A woman who persists in being unveiled like a man should go the whole length of cutting her hair short like a man. But seeing that it is a mark of infamy for a woman to have her hair cut off or shorn, let her wear a veil. 7 A man has no right to cover his head ; he is by constitution the image of God and reflects God’s glory : whereas the woman reflects man’s glory."

Comments on v5
"5. ‘Praying or prophesying ’ must be understood in the same way in both verses : it is arbitrary to say that the man is supposed to be taking the lead m full public worship, but the woman in mission services or family prayers. Was a woman to be veiled at family prayers ? Yet in public worship women were not to speak at all (xiv. 34; 1 Tim. ii. 12). Very possibly the women had urged that, if the Spirit moved them to speak, they must speak ; and how could they speak if their faces were veiled ? In that extreme case, which perhaps would never occur, the Apostle says that they must speak veiled. They must not outrage propriety by coming to public worship unveiled because of the bare possibility that the Spirit may compel them to speak. Comp. Philip’s daughters (Acts xxi. 9), and the quotation from Joel (Acts ii. 18). In neither men nor women must prophesying be interpreted as speaking with Tongues. The latter was addressed to God and was unintelligible to most hearers ; prophesying was addressed to the congregation. The women perhaps argued that distinctions of sex were done away in Christ (Gal. iii. 28), and that it was not seemly that a mark of servitude should be worn in Christian worship ; or they may have asked why considerations about the head should lead to women being veiled and men not And perhaps they expected that the Apostle who preached against the bondage of the Law would be in favour of the emancipation of women. See De Wette, ad lac.
The unveiled woman dishonours her head, because that is the part in which the indecency is manifested. Also by claiming equality with the other sex she disgraces the head of her own sex; she is a bare-faced woman, ‘for she is one and the same thing (neut. Blass, Gr. § 31. 2) with the woman that is shaven/ either as a disgrace for some scandalous offence, or out of bravado. Aristoph. Thesm . 838 ; Tac. Germ 19 ; and other illustrations in Wetst. The Apostle has married women chiefly in view. In Corinth anything questionable in Christian wives was specially dangerous, and the Gospel had difficulties enough to contend against without shocking people by breaches of usage. Christianity does not cancel the natural ordinances of life ; and it is by the original ordinance of God that the husband has control of the wife. Only here and 13 does a/caTa/ca\wros occur in N.T. Having decided the matter in question (m. 4, 5), St Paul now proceeds (vv. 6-16) to justify his decision."

In this classic commentary written in 1911, it was seen that possibly feminist perversion had actually been challenging the apostle Paul at that time, to which he was answering in 1 Corinthians 11. This commentary gives the best explanation of why Paul is not here contradicting his words in 1 Cor. 14:34 & 1 Tim. 2:12.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,414
13,761
113
#66
The International Critical Commentary Complete
https://archive.org/details/internationalcriticalcommentary/NT/26. ICC I Corinthians/page/231/mode/2up

Paraphrase of 1 Cor. 11:4-7
"4 Every man, whether married or unmarried, who has any covering on his head when he publicly prays to God or expounds the will of God, thereby dishonours his head : 5 whereas every woman, whether married or unmarried, who has her head uncovered when she publicly prays to God or expounds the will of God, thereby dishonours her head ; for she is then not one whit the better than the wanton whose head is shaven. 6 A woman who persists in being unveiled like a man should go the whole length of cutting her hair short like a man. But seeing that it is a mark of infamy for a woman to have her hair cut off or shorn, let her wear a veil. 7 A man has no right to cover his head ; he is by constitution the image of God and reflects God’s glory : whereas the woman reflects man’s glory."

Comments on v5
"5. ‘Praying or prophesying ’ must be understood in the same way in both verses : it is arbitrary to say that the man is supposed to be taking the lead m full public worship, but the woman in mission services or family prayers. Was a woman to be veiled at family prayers ? Yet in public worship women were not to speak at all (xiv. 34; 1 Tim. ii. 12). Very possibly the women had urged that, if the Spirit moved them to speak, they must speak ; and how could they speak if their faces were veiled ? In that extreme case, which perhaps would never occur, the Apostle says that they must speak veiled. They must not outrage propriety by coming to public worship unveiled because of the bare possibility that the Spirit may compel them to speak. Comp. Philip’s daughters (Acts xxi. 9), and the quotation from Joel (Acts ii. 18). In neither men nor women must prophesying be interpreted as speaking with Tongues. The latter was addressed to God and was unintelligible to most hearers ; prophesying was addressed to the congregation. The women perhaps argued that distinctions of sex were done away in Christ (Gal. iii. 28), and that it was not seemly that a mark of servitude should be worn in Christian worship ; or they may have asked why considerations about the head should lead to women being veiled and men not And perhaps they expected that the Apostle who preached against the bondage of the Law would be in favour of the emancipation of women. See De Wette, ad lac.
The unveiled woman dishonours her head, because that is the part in which the indecency is manifested. Also by claiming equality with the other sex she disgraces the head of her own sex; she is a bare-faced woman, ‘for she is one and the same thing (neut. Blass, Gr. § 31. 2) with the woman that is shaven/ either as a disgrace for some scandalous offence, or out of bravado. Aristoph. Thesm . 838 ; Tac. Germ 19 ; and other illustrations in Wetst. The Apostle has married women chiefly in view. In Corinth anything questionable in Christian wives was specially dangerous, and the Gospel had difficulties enough to contend against without shocking people by breaches of usage. Christianity does not cancel the natural ordinances of life ; and it is by the original ordinance of God that the husband has control of the wife. Only here and 13 does a/caTa/ca\wros occur in N.T. Having decided the matter in question (m. 4, 5), St Paul now proceeds (vv. 6-16) to justify his decision."

In this classic commentary written in 1911, it was seen that possibly feminist perversion had actually been challenging the apostle Paul at that time, to which he was answering in 1 Corinthians 11. This commentary gives the best explanation of why Paul is not here contradicting his words in 1 Cor. 14:34 & 1 Tim. 2:12.
The commentary is, sadly, just a bunch of circular reasoning. Your attribution of "feminist perversion" to a first-century situation is ridiculously anachronistic.

Paul did not write in 1 Timothy 2:12 that "women" must be silent; he is referring to a woman... singular. In context, it is likely that the specific woman to whom he refers was an inadequately-instructed ex-cultist. Just as a new believer today would not be given an open pulpit, so Paul would not allow someone to teach who had not yet adequately learned. His solution? Let her learn alongside the male students!
 

Ethan1942

Active member
Jul 23, 2022
205
88
28
82
#67
Possibly having the advantage of 80 years on earth, and seeing the perversion of feminism snowball into all areas of life, it is easier to see the contrast of religion today compared to the clear teachings of the Holy Scriptures. It is astounding to watch blatant rejection of the emphatic statements of God's commands as rules of hermeneutics are ignored over and over. There is no excuse when there are textbooks of interpretation freely given online and I'll quote from one -

Principles of Interpretation, Clinton Lockhart, Rev. Ed. 1915
https://icotb.org/resources/PrinciplesofInterpretation.pdf

"It is not hoped that any number of axioms and rules of interpretation will compensate the unfortunate interpreter who is lacking in good judgment and sound common sense. Laws of all sciences presupposes ability in him who would use them." page 13

It is clear that for many in this thread, the problem is not merely lack of good judgment and common sense, but an active rejection of and defiance of God's word. The KJV has a good phrase to describe this sort of thinking, "they willingly are ignorant".

Someone rejecting 1 Tim. 2:12 writes, "Paul did not write in 1 Timothy 2:12 that 'women' must be silent; he is referring to a woman... singular. In context, it is likely that the specific woman to whom he refers was an inadequately-instructed ex-cultist."

This person hasn't the ability to even comprehend English! If the verse was meant to refer to "the specific woman", the definite article would have been used. The definite article is not in the Greek nor in the English translations. Then upon this ignorant statement about "a woman", he reads into the verse a crazy and wild invention! Typical of feminized males. Compare some English translations of the verse -

"I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent." (1Tim 2:12 RSV)

"I do not permit women to teach or dictate to the men; they should keep quiet." (1Tim 2:12 REB)

I generally ignore such foolish replies, but at times it is important they be exposed for the deceit they contain. I've only posted this much considering that through search engines, many thousands of seekers and the elect can read what God's word clearly teaches.
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
12,668
1,098
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#68
Yeah but in my opinion a lot of Christians are actually Paulians.
Paul is not God and he never actually met Jesus so why did his words carry so much authority?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,011
29,377
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#69
"To promote a woman to bear rule, superiority, dominion, or empire above any realm, nation, or city, is repugnant to nature; contumely to God, a thing most contrarious to his revealed will and approved ordinance; and finally, it is the subversion of good order, of all equity and justice.

I am purposed, even as I have spoken my conscience in most plain and few words,
You could surely have said it in fewer words ;)
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,011
29,377
113
#70
Think a lot of Christians are following "Paulinaty" . Last time I checked, Paul isn't God, as I mentioned earlier, never actually met Jesus
He also contradicts himself when he says in Galatians that there's no male or female in the body of Christ
And the whole thing about a woman can't teach a man is just absurd. Especially if she has college degrees and things like theology biblical history etc. Why can't she teach me something if she's more educated than me?
Paul is not God and he never actually met Jesus so why did his words carry so much authority?

Paul did meet Jesus: the Risen Lord. Hmmm, perhaps some men simply refuse to learn anything from a woman.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,011
29,377
113
#71
This thread warrants a thorough response, but I will begin with this:

The words translated "help meet" are ezer kenegdo. These words are used of God Himself in other passages. As such, they do not indicate anything of subservience or incapability for leadership. Rather, they indicate full equality and correspondence to the man.
When Eve was made for Adam, the term used to describe her role was ezer kenegdo.

Re: Hebrew ezer kenegdo.

The Hebrew word ezer is a combination of two roots: `-z-r, meaning "to rescue, to save," and g-z-r, meaning "to be strong."

In Genesis 2:18, the word "helpmeet" does not occur. The Hebrew expression ezer kenegdo appears, meaning "one who is the same as the other and who surrounds, protects, aids, helps, supports." The combination of these two Hebrew words has two roots: `-z-r, meaning "to rescue, to save," and g-z-r, meaning "to be strong." There is no indication of inferiority or of a secondary position in an hierarchical separation of the male and female "spheres" of responsibility, authority, or social position.

Use of the word ezer in the Scripture often refers to either God or military allies. In all other cases the one giving the help is superior to the one receiving the help. Adding kenegdo (meet) modifies the meaning to that of equal rather than superior status. Scripture is so awesome. God says just what He means.

The word ezer is used twice in the Old Testament to refer to the female and 14 times to refer to God.
For example, in the Psalms when David says, "The Lord is my Helper," he uses the word ezer.


Click

and click again.

:)
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
12,668
1,098
113
#72
Paul did meet Jesus: the Risen Lord. Hmmm, perhaps some men simply refuse to learn anything from a woman.
It's because women were property back then. We have improved since those days
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
12,668
1,098
113
#74
What do you mean by "we"?
I mean society as a whole. At least here in America because we don't make women walk around in trash bags like they do in Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,414
13,761
113
#75
Someone rejecting 1 Tim. 2:12 writes, "Paul did not write in 1 Timothy 2:12 that 'women' must be silent; he is referring to a woman... singular. In context, it is likely that the specific woman to whom he refers was an inadequately-instructed ex-cultist."

This person hasn't the ability to even comprehend English!
I see that you can muster neither the intestinal fortitude nor the respect to address me directly, and choose instead to stoop to slanderous personal comments.

How long have you been a Christian? A week?
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,514
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#76
I mean society as a whole. At least here in America because we don't make women walk around in trash bags like they do in Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia
America is only 5% of the world and is hardly representative of the world.

Still, a woman recently fled a house where she was being kept on a leash and she still had the dog collar on. Human trafficking in this country is up greatly So I don't like the idea of lumping "all of America" as "we".

The USA has some of the highest percentages of poor women of any industrialized country in the world.

Personally I don't see "debt slaves" as being better than many (though not all) slaves in human history.
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
12,668
1,098
113
#77
America is only 5% of the world and is hardly representative of the world.

Still, a woman recently fled a house where she was being kept on a leash and she still had the dog collar on. Human trafficking in this country is up greatly So I don't like the idea of lumping "all of America" as "we".

The USA has some of the highest percentages of poor women of any industrialized country in the world.

Personally I don't see "debt slaves" as being better than many (though not all) slaves in human history.
Human trafficking is a crime in america.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,150
2,171
113
#78
Is this news? Jw. The selection of nuts here is fantastic, and the whacadamia variety isn't uncommon.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,514
6,683
113
#79
Human trafficking is a crime in america.
Human trafficking has skyrocketed in the US ever since Biden signaled that the border was open.

Epstein island, Disney, and the FBI have all been exposed as being part of this network.

The headquarters internationally is said to be Kazakstan and Ukraine, and surprise, surprise, Biden is sending tens of billions to Ukraine for some reason.

My point is you say that "we" have improved from 2,000 years ago and explain that "we" refers to civilization as a whole when in fact the situation in the majority of civilization is pretty horrible to women.

So you do say that perhaps you only mean the US, which is 1/20th of human civilization as a whole, and yet even in this 5% it is only a fraction.

How do we know that the situation for 4% of the world at the time of Cleopatra wasn't every bit as good for women then as it is today?
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
12,668
1,098
113
#80
Human trafficking has skyrocketed in the US ever since Biden signaled that the border was open.

Epstein island, Disney, and the FBI have all been exposed as being part of this network.

The headquarters internationally is said to be Kazakstan and Ukraine, and surprise, surprise, Biden is sending tens of billions to Ukraine for some reason.

My point is you say that "we" have improved from 2,000 years ago and explain that "we" refers to civilization as a whole when in fact the situation in the majority of civilization is pretty horrible to women.

So you do say that perhaps you only mean the US, which is 1/20th of human civilization as a whole, and yet even in this 5% it is only a fraction.

How do we know that the situation for 4% of the world at the time of Cleopatra wasn't every bit as good for women then as it is today?
I think a lot of that is just tin foil hat conspiracy theories.
The idea that Satan worshiping cannibals are running America is a little bit cuckoo