Once saved always saved?

If, as you say, "He saves those who believe"

Then common sense would tell you that their belief is what causes God to save them.

You contend that it is up to mankind to choose to believe, and if he does not he goes to hell.

Where your misinterpretation comes from, is the fact that there are scriptures that say that God does deliver those who believe

But it is not eternal deliverance.

There is a deliverance when God's adopted children comes unto a knowledge of the truth.

Rom 10:1-3 is a good example.

According to your theory, you have to omit some scriptures to make it work for you.

Read Romans 8:7. I won't ask "where have you been" That's not the way I converse.

The Bible SAYS so.


The biblical term is eternal soul salvation. You need to learn that.


OK, deliverance from WHAT? Specfically.


Actually, it sinks your theological boat

Rom 10:1 - Brothers and sisters, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved.

Paul, as THE premier evangelist of the 1st Century, most certainly WAS talking about soul salvation.

His WHOLE point was preaching the gospel, which is all about soul salvation.

But never mind the FACT, your mind has been made up.

Go ahead and prove your opinion here with clear Scripture that obviously communicates what you opine.

You also obviously are oblivious to what Jesus taught about eternal life.

From John 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:40,47 believers possess eternal life.
From John 10:28, recipients (believers) of eternal life shall never perish.

Too bad you either didn't know what Jesus taught, or you are aware of these verses but have chosen to reject them as truth.

Since Jesus paid the debt for all sin, no sin puts anyone into the LOF. For those who didn't receive the gift of eternal life (their choice), they have NO OTHER PLACE for them to go.


This is not the way one's sins are blotted out. They are blotted out (paid for) by Christ's death on the cross. But you obviously don't believe that.


This was written to believers, already saved people.

Peter was teaching believers that they have everything they need to life a godly life. v.3
But only if we appropriate the gifts (given us everything we need) will we participate in the divine nature. v.4 This is about having fellowship with the Lord and bearing fruit.
v.5-8 teach that by adding the list of character qualities to our faith, the believer won't be ineffective/unproductive.
v.9 teaches that believers who don't add them to their faith are blind, and have forgotten that they have been cleansed from past sins.
v.10 implores believers to make every effort to confirm their calling/election. That is done by adding to their faith the character qualities listed in v.5-8.
v.11 informs believers that those who DO add to their faith will not just have an entrance into the eternal kingdom, but will have a RICH WELCOME into the kingdom. This speaks of eternal reward.


Like all problems, this is one of ignorance as well.

Sin does NOT effect one's salvation. And you know very well that there are no verses that say they do.

The problem here is that the teaching about God's painful discipline of His rebellious children has not been taught enough. Very few pastors seem even aware that God really spanks His children, and it may not be pretty.

So, believer; go ahead and sin. And see how happy you will be.

Two reasons for believers to be faithful and obedient; to avoid God's painful discipline and to earn eternal reward.

Both are very worthwhile reasons.

Just remember this: if you see a believer living a very carnal life, and he/she seems rather happy, you don't have nearly enough information about how they feel inside. Many people cover up their inner misery by faking it on the outside while they are living it up.

But inside, they are just miserable. So they aren't getting away with anything.

Tell you what; go ahead and sin like crazy and see how you will feel. You may have a lot of fun initially, but sooner or later, all that "fun" will be replaced by misery, even while you continue in your rebellion.

So don't take my word for it. Try it out yourself. You'll see what I mean.

Go ahead and prove your opinion here with clear Scripture that obviously communicates what you opine.

You also obviously are oblivious to what Jesus taught about eternal life.

From John 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:40,47 believers possess eternal life.
From John 10:28, recipients (believers) of eternal life shall never perish.

Too bad you either didn't know what Jesus taught, or you are aware of these verses but have chosen to reject them as truth.

Since Jesus paid the debt for all sin, no sin puts anyone into the LOF. For those who didn't receive the gift of eternal life (their choice), they have NO OTHER PLACE for them to go.


This is not the way one's sins are blotted out. They are blotted out (paid for) by Christ's death on the cross. But you obviously don't believe that.


This was written to believers, already saved people.

Peter was teaching believers that they have everything they need to life a godly life. v.3
But only if we appropriate the gifts (given us everything we need) will we participate in the divine nature. v.4 This is about having fellowship with the Lord and bearing fruit.
v.5-8 teach that by adding the list of character qualities to our faith, the believer won't be ineffective/unproductive.
v.9 teaches that believers who don't add them to their faith are blind, and have forgotten that they have been cleansed from past sins.
v.10 implores believers to make every effort to confirm their calling/election. That is done by adding to their faith the character qualities listed in v.5-8.
v.11 informs believers that those who DO add to their faith will not just have an entrance into the eternal kingdom, but will have a RICH WELCOME into the kingdom. This speaks of eternal reward.


Like all problems, this is one of ignorance as well.

Sin does NOT effect one's salvation. And you know very well that there are no verses that say they do.

The problem here is that the teaching about God's painful discipline of His rebellious children has not been taught enough. Very few pastors seem even aware that God really spanks His children, and it may not be pretty.

So, believer; go ahead and sin. And see how happy you will be.

Two reasons for believers to be faithful and obedient; to avoid God's painful discipline and to earn eternal reward.

Both are very worthwhile reasons.

Just remember this: if you see a believer living a very carnal life, and he/she seems rather happy, you don't have nearly enough information about how they feel inside. Many people cover up their inner misery by faking it on the outside while they are living it up.

But inside, they are just miserable. So they aren't getting away with anything.

Tell you what; go ahead and sin like crazy and see how you will feel. You may have a lot of fun initially, but sooner or later, all that "fun" will be replaced by misery, even while you continue in your rebellion.

So don't take my word for it. Try it out yourself. You'll see what I mean.

Eternal salvation was accomplished on the cross, only, for all of those that God gave to his Son, and they are secured of their eternal inheritance.

some people just deny that we are saved by grace. they want another way,

there is no other way.

2nd Peter

17These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. 18For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. 19While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20For if after they have escaped the pollution of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

These first few verses are the false teachers Rapture, once saved always saved, flesh bodies coming up out of the graces after 100's- 1,000's of years and going into the millennial kingdom ECT. Verse 20&21 20 For if after they have escaped the pollution of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

This clearly says they came to know the Lord they escaped pollution of the world; How through the knowledge of The Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ! Then what happens they are again intangled and overcome and it is worse for them than if they had never gotton saved.

Look at what there end is Verse 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

That does not sound like once saved always saved. I hope it does not to you or anyone else that reads this. My prayer is that you have eyes to see and ears to hear.

Galatians 5

16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

There is a war going on inside us and it will continue until we die or Jesus returns and we are gathered back to him. This war may include so or all of verses 19,20 and part of 21. How does 21 end; They that do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22-24 they that produce good fruit against such there is no law.

Two last verses Revelation 3:5&6

5He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. 6He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

If you overcome you have your name in the book of life and you get clothed in white raiment and your name will not be blotted out of the book of life. OOOOOO NO that means your name can be blotted out. How does Jesus close it out “6He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.”

Once again I pray you and everyone else that reads this has an ear to hear

God bless you

Please save your utterly ridiculous comments for someone else.

Of course we are saved by grace. Placing my trust in the work of Christ isn't a work in any sense. So when God "saves those who believe", which is the actual wording of 1 Cor 1:21 and you DENY, God is saving me BECAUSE of His grace.

I didn't earn salvation, and I don't deserve salvation.

Your views are totally foreign to the Bible.



There is truth. And that is not what your theology is.

i am actually agreeing with you,

i was not referring to you, but to the ones who are arguing with you.

You need to familiarize yourself with biblehub.com and check out ALL the English translations they have for a verse all on one page. You are kidding yourself if you deny that Titus 2:11 isn't about offering the free gift of salvation.

Your theology is just weird. And not found anywhere in the Bible.

FreeGrace2 said:
Your posts seem to negate any need for belief in the Savior.

How about that! You agree with me. However, the new birth FOLLOWS the trust issue of the gospel.

I GAVE you the verse that actually SAYS that. So don't say "as you say". The BIBLE says it.

Regarding 'if we sin willfully, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sin'

First.. believers sin willfully alot! If not thru deed.. in their minds! Believers who post in this forum probably spend significant time on the internet. I think that is a fair assumption. Therefore there is also a high chance a significant amount willfully access pornography. Have they lost salvation? Surely not.

Second...

Sacrifice for sins thru most of Hebrews 10 is about animal sacrifice.

Hebrew Christians would be used to their old ways.. and their system of sacrifices of sheep, bulls and goats.

They would probably have been reverting back to this when they were sinning, as a ritual to show they were repentant to God.

So.. this system is done away with under the New Testament service to God. Jesus is the ultimate lamb.

No need for symbols of Jesus that cannot atone for sin.. such as the sacrifices.

So 'if we sin wilfully... there is no longer a sacrifice '... you can't put Christ back on the cross once your saved if you sin because He has done the sacrifice.. paid the price.

Can't please God with animal sacrifice, because He is the ultimate lamb.

Regarding 'if we sin willfully, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sin'

First.. believers sin willfully alot! If not thru deed.. in their minds! Believers who post in this forum probably spend significant time on the internet. I think that is a fair assumption. Therefore there is also a high chance a significant amount willfully access pornography. Have they lost salvation? Surely not.

Second...

Sacrifice for sins thru most of Hebrews 10 is about animal sacrifice.

Hebrew Christians would be used to their old ways.. and their system of sacrifices of sheep, bulls and goats.

They would probably have been reverting back to this when they were sinning, as a ritual to show they were repentant to God.

So.. this system is done away with under the New Testament service to God. Jesus is the ultimate lamb.

No need for symbols of Jesus that cannot atone for sin.. such as the sacrifices.

So 'if we sin wilfully... there is no longer a sacrifice '... you can't put Christ back on the cross once your saved if you sin because He has done the sacrifice.. paid the price.

Can't please God with animal sacrifice, because He is the ultimate lamb.

Nope. None of the verses are about loss of salvation.

This is not the way one's sins are blotted out. They are blotted out (paid for) by Christ's death on the cross. But you obviously don't believe that.