Once saved always saved?

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
The one mentioned in the Bible. What did you think?

Do you have a verse that plainly says that willful sinning results in loss of salvation? Of course you don't. It doesn't exist.

However, I do have a verse that says in plain language that recipients of eternal life shall never perish. Jn 10:28

Here are your veres
Romans 3

Justified by Faith

21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Unless you are perfect as Jesus was you will sin. When you do you have to repent of that sin or they begin to build up under your name which is in the book of life. God keeps a record of everything good or bad. Judgment day is not just for those that do not make it. It is also a time of great rejoicing for Christians because we will get our rewards from God some 30 fold, some 60 fold some 100 fold

I asked about a verse that SAYS plainly that salvation can be lost. This passage fails.

John 1:

Romans 3

Justified by Faith

21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Ditto here.

1st John 3

Children of God

1Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Ditto once again.

If we commit sin we can be cut off

Can you prove that the words "cut off" refers to hell or the LOF? No, you can't. You just opine so.

In the OT Law, those words (cut off) referred to capital punishment for specific offenses.

Luke 21

12But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. 13And it shall turn to you for a testimony. 14Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: 15For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist. 16And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. 17And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake. 18But there shall not an hair of your head perish. 19In your patience possess ye your souls.

This is the unforgivable sin it can only be commuted by a christian. If when delivered up you either try to take matters into your own hands or you just give up to them because you thank that is the only way to stay alive. Ether way it is unforgivable and only christian could commit. it.
end Part 1

All of your examples failed to teach that salvation can be lost. Which I knew even before you quoted any of them.

Why are you trying to pit Scripture against itself? Why do you think any of the verses that you quoted negate what Jesus said?

Jesus taught that believers possess eternal life. John 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:40, 47 That means at the point of being saved.

Then Jesus taught that recipients of eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28.

To even think that there are any verses that would contradict the very clear words of Jesus is not real helpful.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Part 2
Here are your verses

Really? I just showed that NONE of the verses in your previous post said or even suggested that salvation can be lost.

I ended with this:

All of your examples failed to teach that salvation can be lost. Which I knew even before you quoted any of them.

Why are you trying to pit Scripture against itself? Why do you think any of the verses that you quoted negate what Jesus said?

Jesus taught that believers possess eternal life. John 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:40, 47 That means at the point of being saved.

Then Jesus taught that recipients of eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28.

To even think that there are any verses that would contradict the very clear words of Jesus is not real helpful.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
That confuses you because you have been taught that His death SAVES people. No verse says that

These verses imply salvation by Christ's death and reserection

Rom 6:6 - Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. This verse does not have the word "saved" in it, but the implication is there.

Why bother with what you think is "implied" when we have very clear verses that SAY that believers possess eternal life and recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

Rom 5:10 - For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Colossians 1:22 - In the body of his flesh, through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight.

Nope. None of the verses are about loss of salvation.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
He paid for everyone's sins. I chuckle at your calvinist talking points.

If he paid for everyone's sins, then none of mankind's sins will be accountable to them, and they will go to heaven.

Maybe you are totaly unaware of 2 Cor 5:19 - that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

In 2 Cor 5:14 and 15 the verses plainly SAY that Christ died for ALL. v.19 SAYS that God was reconciling the WORLD by the death of Christ.

Meaning that Christ's death removes the sin barrier between God and man. Christ's death allows the justice of God to save those who believe. Their sin HAD TO BE paid, or God's perfect justice CANNOT save anyone.

Apparently you don't really understand why people will be cast into the LOF. It's NOT about sin. It's about eternal life. Those who never believed never received eternal life.

Since God created only 2 places for humans in eternity, those who never received eternal life cannot live with God, who IS eternal life.

So, by their own decision to not believe God's promise, they send themselves to the LOF. There is no other place for them.

Recall that God prepared the LOF for the devil and his angels. Matt 25:41. Not for humans. But since there are lots of humans who never received eternal life, they have to go where the devil goes.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Jesus IS the Savior of the world

Would that be this world:

Psalms 17:14 - from men of the world, which have their portion in this life, and whose belly thou fillest with thy hid treasure; they are full of children, and leave the rest of their substance to their babes.

Isaiah 13:11 - And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity

Matt 18:7 - Woe unto the world because of offences.

Luke 9:25 - For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself.

John 14:17 - Even the spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive,, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him.

John 15:18 - If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

James 4:4 - Whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world, is the enemy of God.

John 4:42 uses "world" as the human race.

btw, how many of the verses you quoted refer only to believers?

 

[Thewatchman]

there are only 2 classes of people- those who believe and trust in Christ alone for salvation and are thus saved, or those who do not believe, or have works based sysyem, such as you have, that think your salvation is a joint effort with you and God.

it is not a joint effort. it is either 100% trust in Christ, anything, anything else, no matter how pious it sounds, will work.

This is your replay to me

there are only 2 classes of people- those who believe and trust in Christ alone for salvation and are thus saved, or those who do not believe, or have works based sysyem, such as you have, that think your salvation is a joint effort with you and God.

it is not a joint effort. it is either 100% trust in Christ, anything, anything else, no matter how pious it sounds, will work.

1st I do no believe that I can work my way into heaven. Jesus paid the highest price anyone can pay for another He gave up His life for me. To be honest I am humbled by it. I have done things that I am not proud of and I thank God everyday for His mercy

You are right; There are only 2 type or classes of people.

I may be way off base here but I am sure if you and I were sitting down having a cup of coffee and studying this we would find we agree on if we did not we could go to the bible and figure it out. I am not saying that the people that just go to church and set there and go home are bad. I am saying that they are not being trained up in the way they should go. They are not being trained to:Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

The Parable of the Weeds Explained36Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. 37He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 38The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.40As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;42And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.43Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

He that soweth the good seed is the Son of Man, the field is the world and the good seed are the children of the kingdom. Group #1 but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39The enemy that sowed them is the devil; Group #2. the harvest is the end of the world; (The end of this earth age and the start of the millennial reign of Jesus Christ.)

and the reapers are the angles. 40As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. (as I said above the end of this earth age) 41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;(Group #2 removed first why they do iniquity) 42And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.43Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

I hope this helps to explain where I stand.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Oh, please. Believing the gospel is a trust issue, not even a spiritual issue. God promises salvation to "whosoever" believes in His Son.

God is a spirit. Jesus teaches about spiritual things. Believing the things that Jesus taught is believing in spiritual things, or, as you want to put it, "trusting in spiritual things", which the natural man will not, and even "cannot" trust in the things of the Spirit.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

FreeGrace2 said:
Jesus IS the Savior of the world

John 4:42 uses "world" as the human race.

btw, how many of the verses you quoted refer only to believers?

The inspired scriptures are not addressed to the unregenerate people, instructing them on how to get saved eternally, but they are instructing God's adopted children on how God wants them to live their lives, as they sojourn here on earth.

These verses of scripture are instructing them to not take pleasure in the things of this world, nor be friends of the wicked that do.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Why bother with what you think is "implied" when we have very clear verses that SAY that believers possess eternal life and recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

I agree that all believers possess eternal life, but that is not the topic of our discussion. The topic is by what means are they delivered eternally. You think that the unregenerate person's belief is what causes them to be delivered eternally. I believe the scriptures to say that God choose a people, not because of their belief in the things of the spirit but because of his sovereign will, according to his election (Rom 9:11)

2 Tim 2:13 - If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful, he cannot deny himself. (Eph 2:5), Even when we were dead in sins hath he quickened us together with Christ.

John 15:16 - Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Nope. None of the verses are about loss of salvation.

What makes you think that I believe one of God's adopted children can lose his eternal salvation?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Maybe you are totaly unaware of 2 Cor 5:19 - that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

Because of your false indoctrination you are asserting that the scriptures are directed to the unregenerate person. The "US" in 2 Cor 5:19, has reference to the members of the church at Corinth, not to the unregenerate.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

FreeGrace2 said:
He paid for everyone's sins. I chuckle at your calvinist talking points.

Maybe you are totaly unaware of 2 Cor 5:19 - that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

In 2 Cor 5:14 and 15 the verses plainly SAY that Christ died for ALL. v.19 SAYS that God was reconciling the WORLD by the death of Christ.

Meaning that Christ's death removes the sin barrier between God and man. Christ's death allows the justice of God to save those who believe. Their sin HAD TO BE paid, or God's perfect justice CANNOT save anyone.

Apparently you don't really understand why people will be cast into the LOF. It's NOT about sin. It's about eternal life. Those who never believed never received eternal life.

Since God created only 2 places for humans in eternity, those who never received eternal life cannot live with God, who IS eternal life.

So, by their own decision to not believe God's promise, they send themselves to the LOF. There is no other place for them.

Recall that God prepared the LOF for the devil and his angels. Matt 25:41. Not for humans. But since there are lots of humans who never received eternal life, they have to go where the devil goes.

Do you believe that before the carnal man, has been born again, he can be subject to the laws of God?

 

[Thewatchman]

Here are your veres
Romans 3

Justified by Faith

21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Unless you are perfect as Jesus was you will sin. When you do you have to repent of that sin or they begin to build up under your name which is in the book of life. God keeps a record of everything good or bad. Judgment day is not just for those that do not make it. It is also a time of great rejoicing for Christians because we will get our rewards from God some 30 fold, some 60 fold some 100 fold

John 1:

Romans 3

Justified by Faith

21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

1st John 3

Children of God

1Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

If we commit sin we can be cut off

Luke 21

12But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. 13And it shall turn to you for a testimony. 14Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: 15For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist. 16And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. 17And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake. 18But there shall not an hair of your head perish. 19In your patience possess ye your souls.

This is the unforgivable sin it can only be commuted by a christian. If when delivered up you either try to take matters into your own hands or you just give up to them because you thank that is the only way to stay alive. Ether way it is unforgivable and only christian could commit. it.
end Part 1

FreeGrace2 said:
The one mentioned in the Bible. What did you think?

Do you have a verse that plainly says that willful sinning results in loss of salvation? Of course you don't. It doesn't exist.

However, I do have a verse that says in plain language that recipients of eternal life shall never perish. Jn 10:28

I asked about a verse that SAYS plainly that salvation can be lost. This passage fails.


Ditto here.


Ditto once again.


Can you prove that the words "cut off" refers to hell or the LOF? No, you can't. You just opine so.

In the OT Law, those words (cut off) referred to capital punishment for specific offenses.


All of your examples failed to teach that salvation can be lost. Which I knew even before you quoted any of them.

Why are you trying to pit Scripture against itself? Why do you think any of the verses that you quoted negate what Jesus said?

Jesus taught that believers possess eternal life. John 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:40, 47 That means at the point of being saved.

Then Jesus taught that recipients of eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28.

To even think that there are any verses that would contradict the very clear words of Jesus is not real helpful.

 

[Thewatchman]

1One day some Pharisees and teachers of religious law arrived from Jerusalem to see Jesus. 2They noticed that some of his disciples failed to follow the Jewish ritual of hand washing before eating. 3(The Jews, especially the Pharisees, do not eat until they have poured water over their cupped hands,a as required by their ancient traditions. 4Similarly, they don’t eat anything from the market until they immerse their handsb in water. This is but one of many traditions they have clung to—such as their ceremonial washing of cups, pitchers, and kettles.c)
5So the Pharisees and teachers of religious law asked him, “Why don’t your disciples follow our age-old tradition? They eat without first performing the hand-washing ceremony.”
6Jesus replied, “You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you, for he wrote,

‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
7Their worship is a farce,
for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.’d

8For you ignore God’s law and substitute your own tradition.”
9Then he said, “You skillfully sidestep God’s law in order to hold on to your own tradition.

 

[Thewatchman]

Here are your veres
Romans 3

Justified by Faith

21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Unless you are perfect as Jesus was you will sin. When you do you have to repent of that sin or they begin to build up under your name which is in the book of life. God keeps a record of everything good or bad. Judgment day is not just for those that do not make it. It is also a time of great rejoicing for Christians because we will get our rewards from God some 30 fold, some 60 fold some 100 fold

John 1:

Romans 3

Justified by Faith

21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

1st John 3

Children of God

1Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

If we commit sin we can be cut off

Luke 21

12But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. 13And it shall turn to you for a testimony. 14Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: 15For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist. 16And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. 17And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake. 18But there shall not an hair of your head perish. 19In your patience possess ye your souls.

This is the unforgivable sin it can only be commuted by a christian. If when delivered up you either try to take matters into your own hands or you just give up to them because you thank that is the only way to stay alive. Ether way it is unforgivable and only christian could commit. it.
end Part 1

Because of your false indoctrination you are asserting that the scriptures are directed to the unregenerate person. The "US" in 2 Cor 5:19, has reference to the members of the church at Corinth, not to the unregenerate.

 

[Thewatchman]

Part 2 We will state with 2 Corinthians 5:NLT We Are God’s Ambassadors

11Because we understand our fearful responsibility to the Lord, we work hard to persuade others. God knows we are sincere, and I hope you know this, too. 12Are we commending ourselves to you again? No, we are giving you a reason to be proud of us,b so you can answer those who brag about having a spectacular ministry rather than having a sincere heart. 13If it seems we are crazy, it is to bring glory to God. And if we are in our right minds, it is for your benefit. 14Either way, Christ’s love controls us.c Since we believe that Christ died for all, we also believe that we have all died to our old life.d 15He died for everyone so that those who receive his new life will no longer live for themselves. Instead, they will live for Christ, who died and was raised for them. 16So we have stopped evaluating others from a human point of view. At one time we thought of Christ merely from a human point of view. How differently we know him now! 17This means that anyone who belongs to Christ has become a new person. The old life is gone; a new life has begun!

18And all of this is a gift from God, who brought us back to himself through Christ. And God has given us this task of reconciling people to him. 19For God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, no longer counting people’s sins against them. And he gave us this wonderful message of reconciliation. 20So we are Christ’s ambassadors; God is making his appeal through us. We speak for Christ when we plead, “Come back to God!” 21For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin,e so that we could be made right with God through Christ.

Footnotes:
a5:3 Greek we will not be naked.
b5:12 Some manuscripts read proud of yourselves.
c5:14a Or urges us on.
d5:14b Greek Since one died for all, then all died.
e5:21 Or to become sin itself.



Jesus Heals a Lame Man

1Afterward Jesus returned to Jerusalem for one of the Jewish holy days. 2Inside the city, near the Sheep Gate, was the pool of Bethesda,a with five covered porches. 3Crowds of sick people—blind, lame, or paralyzed—lay on the porches.b 5One of the men lying there had been sick for thirty-eight years. 6When Jesus saw him and knew he had been ill for a long time, he asked him, “Would you like to get well?”

7“I can’t, sir,” the sick man said, “for I have no one to put me into the pool when the water bubbles up. Someone else always gets there ahead of me.”

8Jesus told him, “Stand up, pick up your mat, and walk!”

9Instantly, the man was healed! He rolled up his sleeping mat and began walking! But this miracle happened on the Sabbath, 10so the Jewish leaders objected. They said to the man who was cured, “You can’t work on the Sabbath! The law doesn’t allow you to carry that sleeping mat!”

11But he replied, “The man who healed me told me, ‘Pick up your mat and walk.’”

12“Who said such a thing as that?” they demanded.

13The man didn’t know, for Jesus had disappeared into the crowd. 14But afterward Jesus found him in the Temple and told him, “Now you are well; so stop sinning, or something even worse may happen to you.” 15Then the man went and told the Jewish leaders that it was Jesus who had healed him.

Strong's verse 14 made well.
ὑγιὴς (hygiēs)
Adjective - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's Greek 5199: (a) sound, healthy, pure, whole, (b) wholesome. From the base of auzano; healthy, i.e. Well; figuratively, true.

Stop
μηκέτι (mēketi)
Adverb
Strong's Greek 3371: No longer, no more. From me and eti; no further.

sinning,
ἁμάρτανε (hamartane)
Verb - Present Imperative Active - 2nd Person Singular
Strong's Greek 264: Perhaps from a and the base of meros; properly, to miss the mark, i.e. to err, especially to sin.

or
ἵνα (hina)
Conjunction
Strong's Greek 2443: In order that, so that. Probably from the same as the former part of heautou; in order that.

 

[Thewatchman]

If you are cut off from the tree that produces Good fruit (Jesus) just where do you thank you will end up.

 

[Thewatchman]

FreeGrace2 said:
The one mentioned in the Bible. What did you think?

Do you have a verse that plainly says that willful sinning results in loss of salvation? Of course you don't. It doesn't exist.

However, I do have a verse that says in plain language that recipients of eternal life shall never perish. Jn 10:28

I asked about a verse that SAYS plainly that salvation can be lost. This passage fails.


Ditto here.


Ditto once again.


Can you prove that the words "cut off" refers to hell or the LOF? No, you can't. You just opine so.

In the OT Law, those words (cut off) referred to capital punishment for specific offenses.


All of your examples failed to teach that salvation can be lost. Which I knew even before you quoted any of them.

Why are you trying to pit Scripture against itself? Why do you think any of the verses that you quoted negate what Jesus said?

Jesus taught that believers possess eternal life. John 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:40, 47 That means at the point of being saved.

Then Jesus taught that recipients of eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28.

To even think that there are any verses that would contradict the very clear words of Jesus is not real helpful.

Matthew 18:21

New International Version
Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?”
English Standard Version
Then Peter came up and said to him, “Lord, how often will my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?”

My brother or sister that would be a christian and if they sinned against Peter do you not thank they would have sinned against Jesus (God) also. All you have to do is use a little common sense here to get the meaning Jesus gives Peter his answer in verse 22:English Standard Version
Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you seven times, but seventy-seven times.



1st John 2:1

New International Version
My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.

New Living Translation
My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before the Father. He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous.

English Standard Version
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

Berean Standard Bible
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate before the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.

Berean Literal Bible
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you might not sin. And if anyone should sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous One.

King James Bible
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

My little children: John in his loving, carrying, and understanding way is addressing the church; AND IF ANY MAY SIN yes we will all sin and fall short at sometime or another, it may be a “little sin” of a “big sin” it does not matter in Gods eyes sin is sin but if any of us does sin and we will and do we have a advocate with the Father Jesus Christ the Righteous.

How does an advocate work you go and ask them to speak for you to another person and put in a good word for you or work out details of an agreement. The important thing is you have to ask the advocate to act on you behalf.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Oh, please. Believing the gospel is a trust issue, not even a spiritual issue. God promises salvation to "whosoever" believes in His Son.

God is a spirit. Jesus teaches about spiritual things. li

Jesus also taught about day to day things, like marriage, fellowship, etc.

Believing the things that Jesus taught is believing in spiritual things

Some of them, yes, but not all of them.

or, as you want to put it, "trusting in spiritual things", which the natural man will not, and even "cannot" trust in the things of the Spirit.

Nice try but no dice.

You simply cannot prove that the gospel is a spiritual issue. Probably because you don't even know what that means.

The gospel is a trust issue, which is EASY to prove. When the gospel is presented, just ask the person to whom the gospel has been presented, "Do you trust what God says?"

It is that simple.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Jesus IS the Savior of the world

John 4:42 uses "world" as the human race.

btw, how many of the verses you quoted refer only to believers?

The inspired scriptures are not addressed to the unregenerate people

That is quite naive. Of course the Bible is for the human race. The Law wasn't given to believers only. It was given to the Jews, who were to share it with the world. Where have you been?

And consider John's words:

John 20:31 - But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

That was OBVIOUSLY written to unbelievers. Unbelievers that John wanted to become believers.

instructing them on how to get saved eternally, but they are instructing God's adopted children on how God wants them to live their lives, as they sojourn here on earth.

Your posts seem to negate any need for belief in the Savior.

Furthermore, Titus 2:11 proves that salvation is offered to all or everyone. So your theory is debunked by Scripture.