I am Puzzled by the Gospel of John, Cha 20 vs 21-23???????????

Jesus gave His apostles/disciples, His Church a number of great commissions such as spreading His Gospel and baptizing all nations.

I am reading John Cha 20 and am puzzled??????????

This reading occurs after Jesus has arisen and appears to his disciples/apostles/church.

Verse 23: 21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

Was this another commission which Jesus gave His Church?

How come we don't hear these verses preached in our churches?

Because only God has authority to forgive someone’s sins. I think the Roman Catholics believe that “ordained priests” can forgive someone’s sin through confession.

I would say John 20:23 is saying that through the preaching of Jesus they have the ability to lead people to forgiveness of sins. The wording is a bit confusing to me (possibly an English translation issue, idk), but that interpretation seems to make most sense with the rest of the New Testament.

Acts 10:43
43All the prophets testify about Him that everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins through His name.”

21.Jesus saith to them again, Peace be to you. This second salutation appears to me to have no other object than that the Lord should receive such a degree of attention as was due to the greatness and importance of the subjects on which he was about to speak.

As the Father hath sent me. By these words, Christ, as it were, instals them in the office to which he had previously appointed them. True, they had been already sent throughout Judea, but only as heralds, to issue a command that the supreme Teacher should be heard, and not as Apostles, to execute a perpetual office of teaching. But now the Lord ordains them to be his ambassadors, to establish his kingdom in the world. Let it therefore be held by us as an ascertained truth, that the Apostles were now, for the first time, appointed to be ordinary ministers of the Gospel.

His words amount to a declaration, that hitherto he has discharged the office of a Teacher, and that, having finished his course, he now confers on them the same office; for he means that the Father appointed him to be a Teacher on this condition, that he should be employed, for a time, in pointing out the way to others, and should, afterwards, put those persons in his room to supply his absence, for this reason Paul says that he gave some, apostles; some, evangelists; some, pastors, to govern the Church till the end of the world, (Ephesians 4:11 (NAS)

11 And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers,

Christ therefore testifies, first, that, though he held a temporary office of teaching, still the preaching of the Gospel is not for a short time, but will be perpetual. Again, that his doctrine may not have less authority in the mouth of the Apostles, he bids them succeed to that office which he has received from his Father, placesthem in his room, and bestows on them the same authority; and it was proper that their ministry should be ratified in this manner, for they were unknown persons and of mean condition. Moreover, though they had the highest splendor and dignity, yet we know that all that belongs to men does not approach to the excellence of faith.


It is not without reason, therefore, that Christ communicates to his Apostles the authority which he received from the Father, that thus he may declare that the preaching of the Gospel was committed to him, nut by human authority, but by the command of God. But he does not substitute them in his room, in such a manner as to resign to them the highest authority as a teacher, which the Father intended to be vested in him alone. He therefore continues, and will eternally continue to be, the only Teacher of the Church; but there is only this difference, that he spoke with his mouth so long as he dwelt on earth, but now speaks by the Apostles. The succession or substitution, (205) therefore, is of such a nature that it takes nothing from Christ, but his authority remains full and entire, and his honor unimpaired; for that decree by which we are enjoined to hear him, and not others, cannot be set aside:

This is actually the Great Commission phrased a bit differently.

In all of the passages that include the Great Commission, ONLY Jesus' 11 saved disciples/apostles were present.

So, the GC was given to only 11 men, for the express purpose of starting the church age. The GC is not for every believer. Looking over the various lists of spiritual gifts shows that some gifts have no place in world evangelization, such as administration.

So, since the GC isn't directed at all believers, but just those who have the specific gifts related to the GC, such as evangelization and teaching, what are the rest of the believers charged with?

Great question.

Col 6:4 - Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.

1 Pet 3:15 - But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

These verses are for every believer. The way we "give an answer" is to live a life of holiness and faithfulness so that others will see your life and ASK about why you live that way.

It's called "lifestyle evangelism". And we must be prepared to give biblical answers.

I believe it was a commission He gave His apostles. See 1 Corinthians 5:1-3 for example:

"It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles—that a man has his father’s wife! And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed."

In this case, the apostle Paul—present in spirit—didn't forgive this man's sin but told them to disfellowship him.

I guess it all comes down to whether you believe Jesus was talking to all the disciples in John 20 or just His apostles. Personally I think He meant this only for His apostles.

Verse 22. He breathed on them] Intimating, by this, that they were to be made new men, in order to be properly qualified for the work to which he had called them; for in this breathing he evidently alluded to the first creation of man, when God breathed into him the breath of lives, and he became a living soul: the breath or Spirit of God (רוח אלהים ruach Elohim) being the grand principle and cause of his spiritual and Divine life.

Receive ye the Holy Ghost — From this act of our Lord, the influences of the Holy Spirit on the souls of men have been termed his inspiration; from in, into, and spiro, I breathe. Every word of Christ which is received in the heart by faith comes accompanied by this Divine breathing; and, without this, there is neither light nor life. Just as Adam was before God breathed the quickening spirit into him, so is every human soul till it receives this inspiration. Nothing is seen, known, discerned, or felt of God, but through this. To every private Christian this is essentially requisite; and no man ever did or ever can preach the Gospel of God, so as to convince and convert sinners, without it. "There are many (says pious Quesnel) who extol the dignity of the apostolic mission, and compare that of bishops and pastors with that of Christ; but with what shame and fear ought they to be filled, if they do but compare the life and deportment of Christ with the lives and conversation of those who glory in being made partakers of his mission. They may depend on it that, if sent at all, they are only sent on the same conditions, and for the same end, namely-to preach the truth, and to establish the kingdom of God, by opposing the corruption of the world; and by acting and suffering to the end, for the advancement of the glory of God. That person is no other than a monster in the Church who, by his sacred office, should be a dispenser of the Spirit, and who, by the corruption of his own heart, and by a disorderly, worldly, voluptuous, and scandalous life, is, at the same time, a member and instrument of the devil."

Verse 23. Whose soever sins ye remit — See the notes on Matthew 16:19 (NAS)
19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."

Matthew 16:19; Matthew 18:18 (NAS)
18 Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.

Matthew 18:18. It is certain God alone can forgive sins; and it would not only be blasphemous, but grossly absurd, to say that any creature could remit the guilt of a transgression which had been committed against the Creator. The apostles received from the Lord the doctrine of reconciliation, and the doctrine of condemnation. They who believed on the Son of God, in consequence of their preaching, had their sins remitted; and they who would not believe were declared to lie under condemnation. The reader is desired to consult the note referred to above, where the custom to which our Lord alludes is particularly considered. Dr. Lightfoot supposes that the power of life and death, and the power of delivering over to Satan, which was granted to the apostles, is here referred to. This was a power which the primitive apostles exclusively possessed.

Love, Walter

" Through His name " implies " Baptism in the name of the Son.

This is my personal opinion only, i think that the 12 apostles were given a special unique commission. The 12 were chosen by the messiah himself, they were very special people. In revelations we see how extraordinary and esteemed by GOD the 12 were;

Rev 21:12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
Rev 21:13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
Rev 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

The 12 knew Jesus personally they lived and traveled with him they had a solid unmovable foundation. I believe Jesus gave them a special gift to remit of forgive sins, but to the 12 only.

We can see the application of this gift in acts 5;

Act 5:1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
Act 5:2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Act 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
Act 5:5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
Act 5:6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.
Act 5:7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.
Act 5:8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.
Act 5:9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.
Act 5:10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying herforth, buried her by her husband.
Act 5:11 And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.

Peace!

JF

Most Christians do not know what they mean. What is does NOT mean is that a individual can forgive the offence that sin causes God. Catholicism misunderstands this. It is referring to the church's management of sin's consequences.

For example, if the church treasurer steals money from the offering and is caught, he/she will normally be removed from the position. However, if the individual repays the money and make restitution, the elders may decide to give the former treasurer another chance.

I taught Bible classes for about 2 years. One young man took offence at my recommendation of a certain preacher. He was somewhat disruptive so I told him to leave. He was not happy about that. Some time later, he apologised. He has had a change of heart and is teachable. He comes to our home for Bible studies from time to time. I'm delighted. I do not expect or demand that people agree with me in everything. Disagreeing is fine. Being disagreeable is not.

remember this when God breathed life into man ?

“And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s Jesus fulfilling a figure he does it many times in the gospel

like this figure

“And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭31:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this fulfillment

“Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:5-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you see how Moses word was to kill her and Jesus word saved her from condemnation of Moses law which demanded her death for adultery

“And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭20:10‬ ‭

Jesus stopped them from obeying Moses law

the figures are throughout the gospel it’s subtle ways for Jesus to say “ I’m Your God I have come “ subtly so those who we heard scripture would recognize and accept him which many didn’t

“He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:10-11‬ ‭


Some other examples the figure

“And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭3:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the revelation

“Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:58‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The prophetic figure

“Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭52:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the fulfillment

“They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them. As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Really the whole gospel is this way even things like this the figure

“And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.”
‭‭Numbers‬ ‭21:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the fulfillment

“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the figure

“Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭16:4‬ ‭

the fulfillment

“Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:32-33, 35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when we’re reading the Old Testament it’s like we’re seeing Jesus through a dark veil in figures and shadows

Even genesis is considered Moses law because he wrote the first five books of the Bible so what I’m saying is that’s just a figure of Jesus telling people who had known the scriptures this is the new beginning for mankind God had king promised a new creation of man

mans beginning

“And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭

Mans new beginning

“And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:”
‭‭John‬ ‭20:22‬ ‭

it’s a figure of a new creation of a person a new beginning without sin

“Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:17‬ ‭

These men were merely channels that God used. God forgave sins through them. When He said "receive the Holy Spirit", that is exactly what happened. These men did not arbitrarily, in and of themselves, decide who would be forgiven.

There is only one Great Commision for the Church.

Many seem uncomfortably talking about what the Holy Spirit does when a man fully surrenders to Him.

“These men did not arbitrarily, in and of themselves, decide who would be forgiven.”

amen they were going to be filled with the Holy Ghost ( spirit of Christ )

“Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.

And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him. And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in. And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much. Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out. Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭5:4-10‬ ‭

Peter wasn’t judging her and didn’t harm them he was filled with the Holy Spirit like your saying conduits servants of him messengers of the Holy Spirit which becomes part of the person we first accept Christs judgements for ourselves d then can share them with others only Jesus can impute or forgive sins his disciples are commanded to live in that spirit

“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if I Hild your sin against you I’m binding myself in that behavior if you lied to me and I refuse to forgive you I’m condemning my own self by his judgement

the church is going to always be following after Jesus and his judgements and will always use his judgements as thier own through men Christ is spreading through the earth

It's Jesus who forgives sins and you provide Him with the location in time out of which He can do what He does.

And it's worth noting when He said, "As the Father sent Me, so now I am sending you." He was not saying this just to Peter, He's was saying this to all of them. And this fact would deny the claim, of the Romans, that this truth ended up as the property of the church because Peter is not the only one who was given this commission. The church, as an institution, is not capable of responding to Christ, but you can. The Lord never sent an institution to do His will; such a thing did not exist in the first century.

So, how are we able forgive sins.

First, only if Christ is in you can you forgive sins. The commission is a grant of authority. It does not give the one permission to act on his or her own. The one who acts on behalf of Christ must act within the scope of the authority that is granted, otherwise he is on his own and, therefore, has no authority save for his own will.

The other part about sins in Romans where it reads "And if we will confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

First, note that Romans was written to believers: they already have a relationship with God as their Father. Then, notice that it does not say "If we repent of our sins" it says "If we confess our sins..." and, to continue, "He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

So believers only need to confess their sins to Christ in order to be forgiven of them and cleansed of them.

But those who are trapped in the world require a different approach. They are NOT in Christ; they do not see God as their Father. They are currently under the rule of the kingdom of darkness. So what does God do: He sends out ambassadors. And what do they say? First, they declare that Jesus is the King, the One upon whom God has vested all authority. Then, what if the one who is lost wants to receive Jesus as their King and Savior? We can, as ambassadors, as ones with a grant of authority from the One who has all authority, declare that their sins are forgiven. Maybe something like "As an ambassador of Christ, I declare to you the intention of the Lord Jesus Christ concerning you, and that is, 'Your sins are forgiven."

After this we should encourage them to be baptized in water. But that is another subject.

It's funny to me how those who say "Well, this right (to forgive sins) was only granted to a few" are the same people who claim they reject the division between clergy and laity. The truth is the Lord will grant this to anyone He sends to do His will. It is true that it is only exclusive to those who are in Christ but it is not exclusive to a fabricated caste of believer. How do we know this? Because Jesus sent out His disciples in the same manner in which God sent Him: Jesus represented the Father perfectly now we are sent to represent the Lord in the same manner: there is a continuity of grace and of function. How did the disciples know how to disciple? By the example Jesus set before them. The King intended to multiply Himself in the earth through we who are His vessels: willing participants in His divine grace. One of these graces is the forgiveness of sins.

Be blessed

Yes, my church practices this. It is colloquially called "the office of the keys". Its in our confessions.

read the Lord's Prayer.

we are Forgiven based upon Forgiving those who sin against us.

i would imagine even when the Apostles were being tortured and eventually murdered they were forgiving those hurting them. just like they saw the Master when He was tortured and Crucified [Father, forgive them for they know not what they do]!

I think it a very beautiful thing that Jesus gave to us His ministry and the ability to forgive sins in his name. To think that if I forgive a person who sins against me; Jesus does the same and forgives them as well.