Former pentecostal

God hasn't given away his power!

No cessationist says that. The gift of miracles put away... not Gods power independently to heal and do miracles.

So miracles can and still do happen.. any cessationist would agree with that. Just for very particular purposes and times.

Also ...the sign gifts of the Spirit are not the primary means by which God works in scripture. How about the fruits of the Spirit?

How about the long parts of NT scripture that make no mention of the sign gifts?

But anyway... what people claim as miracles now.. does it match a biblical miracle?

Eg... 100 percent healing.. and no reccurance of the same problem.

If the problem came back it would have to be a new injury/condition.

If it does match a biblical miracle..then we can start talking possible miracles.

If Paul had no physical issues, why does he speak of infirmities?

Or, how could he take pleasure in them if they were non-existent?

good question. His physical issues were from being beaten, persecuted, and imprisoned.

Paul wrote many of his Epistles in Prison as I know you know this That why they are known as the Prison Epistles.

The Greek translation for infirmities in the text means and chapter of 1cor 12 "want
of strength, weakness, " or want of strength and capacity requisite "peaceful life."

I think I might feel a little infirm if I had just been stoned and dragged out of the city for dead

But Jesus did inspire Paul, who wrote about the purpose of tongues, and the credentials of an apostle and when the sign gifts would cease.

The inspiration Paul got was from Jesus. And yes He is fully God.. I agree.

When we look at Jesus' words.. they aren't just what He said in person to people He met in person... but also the entire inspiration of the Bible. I'm sure you know this already.. so I don't quite get what you mean here.. unless you are saying the point of ceasing Paul is talking about is not the completed canon.. then I understand what you mean.

Good answer Yes, Paul was greatly abused during his ministry, and some of that abuse could have had long-lasting repercussions.

But we do not know what his thorn in the flesh was...

Well, I think the thorn in the flesh was what he asked The Lord to remove, which was the persecution he had to endure constantly as 1cor 12 speaks about. But hey I can be wrong

Sure

I spent 20 years in the Pentecostal Movement, 7 years as a pastor.
I left due to the charlatans in leadership.
I to believe the sign gifts ceased with the completion of the New Testament.
I admit that not all agree with this position, and I respect their right to that.
Peace
Jeff

God hasn't given away his power!

No cessationist says that. The gift of miracles put away... not Gods power independently to heal and do miracles.

I think if Paul had become a cessationist before he had finished penning the complete revelation it would have found it's way into the revelation.

Well, I think the thorn in the flesh was what he asked The Lord to remove, which was the persecution he had to endure constantly as 1cor 12 speaks about. But hey I can be wrong

The way to serve God is to RECEIVE from Him and then go tell about it. If you haven't received anything then all you got is dictionaries, commentaries, sermons and dissertations.

What Paul wanted was for the Persecution to stop He was not sick. He had no issues physically. In all things, we are to trust God.
And you cherry-picked the chapter

Precious friend, A Very Warm Welcome To Chat.

Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided.

Amen! Scripturally Accurate, According To God's Inspired Words, through
[the cessationist] Paul!!:

Php 2:25 "Yet I supposed it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus, my brother, and companion in labour, and fellowsoldier, but your messenger, and he that ministered to my wants.

Php 2:26 For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick.

Php 2:27 For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God Had MERCY On him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow."
+

Quite amazing how one can study for years, and then find This Truth, eh?:

2Ti_4:20 "Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick."
+
1Ti_5:23 "Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities."

In Light Of These Truths, how then is Paul a "continuationist"???
Thus, we still stand for God's Truth:

When Did the gift of tongues Cease? (I) [scroll to bottom of pg 18]
When Did the gift of tongues Cease? (II)

GRACE And Peace...

But tongues ARE written in the bible and God said I wish that all My people did speak with them.

It is not logical to think that Paul would be referring to something like an illness as a "thorn in his side" when he knew how familiar these passages were to his readers and how it would make them think of these verses.

Thorn in the flesh/side in the OT was referencing enemies of Israel left in the land. People.


Judges 2:3
Wherefore I also said, I will not drive them out from before you; but they shall be [as thorns] in your sides, and their gods shall be a snare unto you

Joshua 23:13
Know for a certainty that the LORD your God will no more drive out [any of] these nations from before you; but they shall be snares and traps unto you, and scourges in your sides,,,,
Numbers 33:55
But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them [shall be] ... thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell.

Asking "where else in the bible is the phrase "Thorn in the Flesh/side" used and what did it mean.
Also asking the question "was it a particularly famous passage that most people would have heard of before?"

And then you must conclude that most of his readers who were familiar with these famous verses and how would have heard endless lessons on the mistake about leaving these people in the land, would think Paul was referring to people or a person.

And that is the best interpretation in my opinion due to the hermeneutical rules I just presented.

IN other words, it ain't Perfect. So how is "that perfect" that eliminates the need for spiritual gifts.

The context of Paul's throne in the flesh is said in 2cor 12:7-11


Paul says

7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.

9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.


Because The Lord said to Paul " My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. "


10 Therefore I(Paul) take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.
the description of what Paul prayed to have the Lord take away was

listed: infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake:

Paul did not say the gifts HAVE ceased; he said they will Cease when that which is perfect has come.

Let me ask you, was the word of God perfect only when the 66 books were Canonized or before? That is the argument with Cessationism is a doctrine that spiritual gifts such as speaking in tongues, prophecy and healing ceased with the Apostolic Age

Which 1cor 13:8-10 is the text they use to support that understanding? That, I might add, is an error.

Just as it would not be logical to think that PAUL would have any problem with being DELIVERED from all those that were persecuting him. SEEMS THOSE THORNS were being taken away all the time.


2 Timothy 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

2 Timothy 3:9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was.

2 Timothy 3:10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,

2 Timothy 3:11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.

2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

2 Timothy 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

Unfortunately, the text shows just that. The Book of Acts and all the Prison Epistles. Paul was imprisoned, beaten, stoned, shipwrecked, Bitten by a Viper, taken from The Jews to the Romans then beheaded.

Why is it that some think Jesus was lying about Paul?


Acts 9:15-16


15 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children[c] of Israel. 16For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name’s sake.”

That was in context to Paul. And Paul understood that, as he said in 2cor chapter 12.