And the SMOKE of their torment...No eternal damnation for anyone, except the Devil

You’re dishonest.

You referenced verses believing they support your view of eternal torment and they don’t. The only thing eternal about what you mentioned was worms. Isaiah 66 “their” worm does not die. It does not say they (the people) don’t die. You’re smart enough to know better than to add to God’s words, but you did it anyway.

Absolutely agree with the crowd being in error. Where to begin. People don’t want to hear it from me because it isn’t satisfying, but I’ll say it anyway.

Your doctrine of eternal torment was designed by the devil to either scare people into church or repulse them completely away from God. God did not give us a spirit of fear, but of love.

1 John 4:18
18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

There is no fear in God’s love. If you come to church because you fear being punished in hell for all eternity then you are not made perfect in love.

God wants people to come to Him because they love Him. Our God is merciful and righteous and doesn’t eternally torment all of the unsaved for anything. The Bible says they will perish and not receive eternal life.

Mark 9:43-49:

If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands go into hell, where the fire never goes out. And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, where:

"the worms that eat them do not die,
and the fire is not quenched."

Everyone will be salted with fire.

Why does Jesus put in balance the suffering of losing one body part with that of being thrown into hell?
Why do you think Jesus uses the image of the "worms that do not die" and of the "unquenched fire"? With what purpose? What is the emphasis on?

The ultimate fate of the wicked are in the verses I showed you. In Revelation 20, they are resurrected, they check to see if they are in the book of life, and then they are put to a second death. I think the difference between how you read the Bible and myself is that you won't accept a literal interpretation of the death of the wicked, but when the Bible says "eternal life" for the saved, you accept that as literally. I accept the fate of the wicked and the saved as literal.


The fire is everlasting because God designed it that way. The Bible doesn't it's eternal fire for the purpose of eternally tormenting anyone.



I agree with that definition of eternity, but I don't ageree with the human soul being immortal. There's way too many verses to the contrary and only God alone is immortal.

1 Timothy 6:16
16He alone is immortal and dwells in unapproachable light. No one has ever seen Him, nor can anyone see Him. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.

God alone being immortal is a point that can't change. In other words, no one is immortal unless God gives them immortality. Again, only those who believe in Christ will live forever. This is clear.


From Matthew 25:28-30, the parable of the ten minas (or the ten bags of gold)

Notice the parable of the ten minas didnt say eternal torment. Eternal darkness is most likely located outside of the kingdom of God.

Matthew 8:10-12
10When Jesus heard this, He marveled and said to those following Him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. 11I say to you that many will come from the east and the west to share the banquet with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12But the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”


The parable of the rich man and Lazarus is for our benefit to draw spiritual lessons from. If someone needs help then help them and don't selfishly use what God has given you are just two points of the parable. I don't really want to write a novel about that parable right now.

Because people can lose their entire body in hell. They'll be burned up and completely reduced to ashes. There is no immortality in hell. Why lose your entire body if losing a hand or eye will prevent that?

Matthew 10:28
28Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Better question.... do you believe Jesus wants us to chop our hands and feet off and gouge our eyeballs out? seriously? would you do it?

Facing death is horrifying. Sure, maybe there are some people who can put on a tough exterior and whit-knuckle through their death sentence, but imagine being resurrected again. Finally alive once more Sweet sweet life. Only to be die again? That's rough. There's no returning from the eternal punishment of death.

The thought of entering hell shouldn't even enter the mind as a possibility to a real Christian. It's more like the martyrs, such as Stephen, looked to the heavens and prepared for God to receive their spirit. They were just happy to be going home.

1 hell not make people run from Jesus, all the way around, they will need salvation, remember on 911 every day in my church people come to pray

2 read genesis how devil lie to Adam, make lower or no punishment

God said if you eat that fruit you will die, devil say no if you eat you will know the different between good and bad

now the devil lower the punishment from eternal fire to cease to exist

my brother, don’t let the devil lie to you

I have been gone for 8,9 days and you are all still at it.

Can we agree that we serve a loving and caring Father(God) who looks out for us and will not punish us without need of correction. We look forward to that Day when He shall open the Book of Life and we will be judged for our works and receive the rewords that we have coming to us. This is what we look forward to:


1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

5And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. 6And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. 8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

What does He promise us? 1. We shall be His people and He will be our God, and He will dwell with us. 2. His tabernacle will be with us and He(God) will be with us 3. God will wipe away every tear, all pain, sorrow, crying . . . 4. He is going to remove all abominable things and they shall go into the lake with fire and brimstone.

Then we change subjects there is no mention of eternal pain, suffering, crying out, ect.

Would you call this an eternity of peace, joy happiness, no tears ect: You are in heaven and you can see family members that did not make it burning, screaming in pain, crying out for you to help them ect. I would not call that joy or a time without pain. I would call that HEAVEN!

Part 2 Bible verses.

Palms 9.

1{To the chief Musician upon Muthlabben, A Psalm of David.} I will praise thee, O LORD, with my whole heart; I will shew forth all thy marvellous works.

2I will be glad and rejoice in thee: I will sing praise to thy name, O thou most High.

3When mine enemies are turned back, they shall fall and perish at thy presence.

4For thou hast maintained my right and my cause; thou satest in the throne judging right.

5Thou hast rebuked the heathen, thou hast destroyed the wicked, thou hast put out their name for ever and ever.

6O thou enemy, destructions are come to a perpetual end: and thou hast destroyed cities; their memorial is perished with them.

7But the LORD shall endure for ever: he hath prepared his throne for judgment.

15The heathen are sunk down in the pit that they made: in the net which they hid is their own foot taken.

16The LORD is known by the judgment which he executeth: the wicked is snared in the work of his own hands. Higgaion. Selah.

17The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

Psalms 37

1{A Psalm of David.}

Fret not thyself because of evildoers, neither be thou envious against the workers of iniquity.

2For they shall soon be cut down like the grass, and wither as the green herb.

20.But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
Take a good look at what this verse says; Just what does it say will happen to the wicked? They shall become AS the fat of the lambs: they shall (be: added by me) consume(ed); into smoke shall they consume away.

What happens to smoke? It goes up into the air and puff it is gone it will be the same for the wicked, the sinner, Etc.

Psalms 37: 20

New International Version
But the wicked will perish: Though the LORD’s enemies are like the flowers of the field, they will be consumed, they will go up in smoke.
New Living Translation
But the wicked will die. The LORD’s enemies are like flowers in a field— they will disappear like smoke.
English Standard Version
But the wicked will perish; the enemies of the LORD are like the glory of the pastures; they vanish—like smoke they vanish away.
Berean Study Bible
But the wicked and enemies of the LORD will perish like the glory of the fields. They will vanish; like smoke they will fade away.




Isiah 9.15-18

Berean Study Bible
The head is the elder and honorable man, and the tail is the prophet who teaches lies.

King James Bible
The ancient and honourable, he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail.

Berean Study Bible
For those who guide this people mislead them, and those they mislead are swallowed up.

King James Bible
For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed.




Berean Study Bible
Therefore the Lord takes no pleasure in their young men; He has no compassion on their fatherless and widows. For every one of them is godless and wicked, and every mouth speaks folly. Despite all this, His anger is not turned away; His hand is still upraised.

King James Bible
Therefore the Lord shall have no joy in their young men, neither shall have mercy on their fatherless and widows: for every one is an hypocrite and an evildoer, and every mouth speaketh folly. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.




Berean Study Bible
For wickedness burns like a fire that consumes the thorns and briers and kindles the forest thickets which roll upward in billows of smoke.

King James Bible
For wickedness burneth as the fire: it shall devour the briers and thorns, and shall kindle in the thickets of the forest, and they shall mount up like the lifting up of smoke.



Are you being taught by the elder and Honorable man or the prophet (preacher, pastor, minister, teacher,) who teaches lies? If you are being taught that the wicked those whose names are not written in the book of life burn in the fire for ever and ever where you can see them, hear them Etc. you are being taught buy the tail.

These are not my words they are THE WORD OF GOD!

The loving God is also just God

this just God punish the devil into eternal fire if you don’t go there than repent now, make correction now when you physically live

the logic become inconsistence if you don’t believe eternal punishment for human due to love but believe eternal punishment for devil

if you think live make impossible for eternal punishment than it must no eternal hell at all, both for human and devil

Mark 9:47&48

47And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48where ‘their worm never dies, and the fire is never quenched.’h

Who or what never dies here? The worm: Worm meaning in the Greek a worm, spec. that kind which preys upon dead bodies



Matthew 13:38-42

but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. 40As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;42And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.




Matthew 3:12
His winnowing fork is in His hand to clear His threshing floor and to gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."



Matthew 3:12
Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Matthew 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Psalm 21:9
Thou shalt make them as a fiery oven in the time of thine anger: the LORD shall swallow them up in his wrath, and the fire shall devour them.

All these verses say nothing about burning for ever and ever. As I said before if they did burn for ever and ever and we know about it that could not and would not be Heaven.

God says the end up like the fat of the lamb when it hits the fire. It goes POOF into smoke and is gone forever never to be seen again.

This what Jesus say

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

eternal punishment

also the story Lazarus and rich man in hell. Rich man fell thirsty and ask Abraham send Lazarus to bring a drop of water, rich man not cease to exist

My friend, the serpent said this:

Genesis 3:4
4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

God said they would die:

Genesis 2:17
17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

You say we won’t die. Who is the devil lying to now?

When the cites you give don't say what you WANT them to say, it doesn't take much to eliminate your argument.

devil lie to human
God say if you eat that fruit you will die

devil say no

but your definition on die is unbiblical

die in this case is in the sense eternal punishment as in Matt 25:46

Let’s put the scriptures in harmony. So none of them say all of the unsaved receive eternal conscious torment, but the rest say they perish. Sometimes it says they are destroyed or they have death.

So given the evidence of the majority of scriptures against one or two verses, what is the eternal punishment?

What kind of unsaved have eternal punishment, what kind cease to exist and why, because impossible for loving God to do eternal punishment?