Bible Vs Scientism

What what reason is?

Good stuff, tourist. 👍 Do you also believe that the word "earth" - all throughout the scriptures - refers ONLY to the dry land part on which we live, and that the sea is always something OTHER THAN "the earth"?

Thanks for your comments, Gary. I look forward to more discussion. 🙏

I believe the Bible is true because of the fulfilled prophecies, not merely "on faith".

Seems to me that 'earth' is referring to the dry land and the sea is the oceans. I could be wrong about the earth though as it may be referring to the actual planet, but I don't believe that this is the case.

What is your concept/idea of 1st/2nd/3rd heaven?

Evidence-based faith is what the Bible promotes. On the basis of what God has done, He calls us to believe what we cannot (yet) see. I believe the Bible is true because of the fulfilled prophecies, not merely "on faith".

Your description of scientism is likewise flawed. Science (real science) is based on evidence and experimentation.; faith has nothing to do with it. Fake science encompasses blind faith... believing things outside of science. You erroneously conflate the two.

I think that over time, men came to understand the air under the firmament as the first heaven, the solid firmament containing the sun, moon and stars as the second heaven, and God's dwelling atop the firmament (ie: Ezekiel 1:26) as the third heaven.

You basically said what I have been saying throughout this thread, but have posed it as if you are correcting me about something.

Gary has already corrected you on your "fulfilled prophecies" statement. Allow me to correct you on your "conflate the two" assertion...

Dino, is Darwinian evolution "real science" or "fake science"?

Dino, is Darwinian evolution "real science" or "fake science"?

It's not science at all.

What then do we call the millions of "scientists" who believe it, promote it, teach it, and do their best to convince everyone that it's not up for debate, because it is scientific fact?

How exactly do the sun, moon, and stars move through the solid firmament?

Also, tell me about the "planets" - what are they and where are they?

I don't know. Are the sun, moon, and stars solid objects? The Bible only calls them lights. Perhaps the firmament is like a cell wall in our bodies... solid enough to keep the right stuff in and out, but also passable.


Jude 1:13-14... They are... wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever. Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them...

Enoch 21:3... There, too, I beheld seven stars of heaven bound in it together, like great mountains, and like a blazing fire. I exclaimed, For what species of crime have they been bound, and why have they been removed to this place? Then Uriel, one of the holy angels who was with me, and who conducted me, answered... These are those of the stars which have transgressed the commandment of the most high God...

Gary, we can glean from the Bible that God not only created these lights and set them in the firmament of heaven, but also gave them appointed circuits to run above the earth. These seven stars (Greek: planétés, from which we get "planets") transgressed God's command and decided to run their own circuits. Dire punishment from God awaits them.

Man created time.

God works outside of time.[/quote[
Correct. God is not restrained by the passage of time that He created for us.

Peter was trying to tell people (who wondered WHY things just keep going on like before when salvation was supposed to be imminent) to be patient. He was reminding them that God is outside of time, and so what might seem like a very long time to us won't seem like that to God. Of course God doesn't experience "days" at all (24 hour days or thousand year days) because, as you've pointed out, God works outside of time. But He created days for us, and knows how WE experience them.

I imagine that, as I write this, God can be "living" the creation of the earth, the flood, the exodus, and the birth of Christ simultaneously.

God bless

Gary, we can glean from the Bible that God not only created these lights and set them in the firmament of heaven, but also gave them appointed circuits to run above the earth. These seven stars (Greek: planétés, from which we get "planets") transgressed God's command and decided to run their own circuits. Dire punishment from God awaits them.

What then do we call the millions of "scientists" who believe it, promote it, teach it, and do their best to convince everyone that it's not up for debate, because it is scientific fact?

Not my problem. I don't support it, and I don't care for your implication that I do.