NO falling away…Just a free ride… with Jesus.

I cannot agree that they're false christians.

How would you classify those clergymen and theologians (and even ordinary laymen) who attack the Bible, attack the Gospel, deny the deity of Christ, and approve same-sex marriages and abortion? Also those who elevate Mary to the same level as God and Christ? Those who claim that Christians and Muslims are "brothers" and worship the same God?

I cannot agree that they're false christians. More like deceived, backslidden christians.
After all, a false christian is a sinner, & has nothing to fall away from.
This is why the epistles give all kinds of warnings about the church being deceived.

It's very simple: S I N N E R S . There's sinners, & there's saints. Nothing in between.

^ @Mem , thank you for your comment.

Consider: The text does not convey this ("the gathering of the saints won't happen until...")--that is not how the text itself reads (v.3).


Instead, v.3 is starting off [after the introductory "cautioning / warning" part] with the words "...BECAUSE that day..." (referring back to the distinct subject OF VERSE 2--"the DOTL" time-period--the EARTHLY-located TIME-PERIOD which consists [in part] of JUDGMENTs unfolding upon the earth OVER SOME TIME--which is DISTINCT from the instantaneous noun-EVENT [located "IN THE AIR"] being referenced in v.1, which Subject PAUL is bringing forward to address the PROBLEM of the "false claim" Subject of v.2)...

TWO completely DISTINCT things, but Paul is telling how the ONE THING relates "time-wise / SEQUENCE-wise" to the OTHER THING....

... which means he is NOT saying:

--"rapture/SNATCH [IN THE AIR] / our episynagoges unto Him / THE departure' won't happen until 'rapture/SNATCH [IN THE AIR] / our episynagoges unto Him / THE departure' happens first..."




INSTEAD ^ , ONLY ONE of these can be the words in BLUE (because "he apostasia" [THE departure] is only stated ONCE in this verse)

...and the OTHER phrase / part ("3 ...that day"--re: the "false claim" Paul is telling about FROM VERSE 2) is what should be in RED (coz it is NOT THE SAME SUBJECT as that which is is worded "in BLUE")







--"rapture/SNATCH [IN THE AIR] / OUR episynagoges UNTO HIM / THE departure"

...IS NOT (not the same as)...

--"the day of the Lord" earthly-located TIME-PERIOD which will unfold upon the earth with its numerous JUDGMENTs, over SOME TIME, which v.2 is Paul informing them about the "false claimants" saying "that [it--the DOTL] "IS PRESENT / IS ALREADY HERE [perfect indicative]"... that is, unfolding upon the earth in their present-day experience / existence (entirely "believable" b/c of the very NEGATIVE "persecutions and tribulations YE ENDURE"-2Th1:4)



Verse 2 is not telling us / the readers that the "false claimants" were purporting "that THE RAPTURE is present / is already here".
No.

Therefore, what starts out in v.3a is reaching back to address VERSE 2's Subject (the false claim "that THE DAY OF THE LORD IS PRESENT"... not that the Rapture is present [v.1's Subject that PAUL IS BRINGING to address the problem of the "false claim" he's telling of in v.2])



Conflating these two distinct things (as most tend to do) sets one off on the wrong footing, in interpreting this passage, leading one far afield of what Paul is actually conveying here.






[he's providing the SEQUENCE between these TWO distinct things... and he repeats this SEQUENCE 3x in this passage... which agrees also with all other passages covering this same Subject, elsewhere in Scripture (showing this SAME SEQUENCE)]

2 Thessalonians 2 begins with an introduction of the subject, "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him," intimately connecting these two events and, since God is One of perfect order, would have been worded in the reverse order, i.e. "Concerning our being gather to Him and the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ," if that is the exact order of events as you are proposing.

Make sense? = )

Verse 2's "FALSE CLAIM" does not start out with, "our episynagoges unto Him WILL NOT HAPPEN UNTIL..."

I continually hear of the falling away of believers before Christ’s return….Hopefully this will clarify that misconception….It is not a falling away …but a departure……We be gone, baby.

A look at the word hē apostasia …translated in verse 2:3 as a falling away which has been wrongly understood as a falling away of the faithful…(turning unfaithful) believers….but that is not how this reads..

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a “falling away” and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;



First understand that…. The English version prior to King James version.. translated apostasia in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 as departing. The King James or authorized version was the first to translate apostasia as falling away.

Jerome's Latin translation of the vulgate around 400 AD, translate the Greek apostasia as Latin discessio ….meaning departure. The Tyndale Bible 1534, the Geneva Bible, and the Cramer Bible first published in 1537, all translated apostasia as departed ….these versions all preceded the King James version printed in 1611.

What happened with KJV …we don’t really know….. but one of the fatal mistakes the translators made was in failing to take into consideration the definite article (the) before the word apostasia which appears in the Greek text. The article may be used to point out an object, the identity of which is defined by some previous reference made to it in the context…. The translators of the Authorized KJ Version looked for the definition of the word in the subsequent context…. whereas the Greek article points here to a previous context…. namely to the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ in the air and the gathering together of the Saints to Him.

We need to look at this from the Greek point of view, not the English, if we are to discover the reason that the article is used….

the usage of the article draws our attention to the identity and special significance of this particular departure. The Greeks do not need the article to make the noun definite as used in English. In the Greek a substantive is definite without the article……The article originally came from the demonstrative pronoun such as “this” or “that” …. which calls attention with special emphasis to a designated object. Its function is to point out an object or draw attention to it….. It is used with a word that makes the word stand out distinctly. Whenever the Greeks used “the” article, it points out individual identity…. and it marks a specific object of thought.

The Greeks used the article with infinitives, adjectives, adverbs, prepositional phrases, and clauses …..or even with whole sentences….. We do not have a corresponding English usage or anything even remotely similar. When the article hē (= the) appears in Greek ….it always signals some special significance. And we need to look at the matter from the Greek point of view, not the English, if we are to discover the reason that the article is used.

Apostasia = departure. The cognitive neuter noun apostasia occurs three times Mat 5:31, Mat 19:7 & Mar 10:4…. of divorce, the departure of a husband and wife from each other. The word used here is a feminine noun with only one other occurrence in the New Testament… Act 21:21 regarding a departure from Moses… that is, a departure from the mosaic law. The departure referred to here in 2Thes 2 is explained in verses 2:6-8 of 2Thesas the removal of a restraint.

2Th 2:1 begins this discussion with regard to the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering up together with him. This verse in chapter 2 …taken together with the previous verses in the first chapter suggest that the departure refers to the gathering together of holy ones… which precedes both the appearance of the lawless one and the day of the Lord. Therefore, we can conclude that the Bible definition of the word, apostasia is departure.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<



II Thes 2:1-8

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

Brethren indicates Paul is talking to those in the body of Christ…. born again believers.

By the “coming” of our lord Jesus Christ AND “gathering together” unto Him (2 things) coming and gathering ….addressed to born again believers of the church of God.


2Th2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of [Christ] Lord is at hand.

Just as today, there were those spreading false information including → that the day of the Lord is taking place right now.

The word Christ should be translated Lord. All critical Greek text read Lord.

KJV/NKJV is the only common version that has Christ. Any reference to the Lords Day or Day of the Lord is referencing the tribulation period.



2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come the departure (hē apostasia) and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

In order to not be deceived,…..we need to be aware that there is a departure first.

2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

Remember (dudes) brethren…. I went over this stuff with you…Paul had previously told them in 1Th 1:9&10, 1Th 2:19, 1Th 4:13-18, 1Th 5:1-11



2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

withholdeth …holds back …detains

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth= witholdeth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

Letteth is the same word as withholdeth.. (katechō)

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

And then ….when? ….When that which detains is gone….taken out of the way …departed. ….Once light is gone …darkness takes free reign.

I continually hear of the falling away of believers before Christ’s return….Hopefully this will clarify that misconception….It is not a falling away …but a departure……We be gone, baby.

A look at the word hē apostasia …translated in verse 2:3 as a falling away which has been wrongly understood as a falling away of the faithful…(turning unfaithful) believers….but that is not how this reads..




2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come the departure (hē apostasia) and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

In order to not be deceived,…..we need to be aware that there is a departure first.

2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

Remember (dudes) brethren…. I went over this stuff with you…Paul had previously told them in 1Th 1:9&10, 1Th 2:19, 1Th 4:13-18, 1Th 5:1-11



2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

withholdeth …holds back …detains

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth= witholdeth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

Letteth is the same word as withholdeth.. (katechō)

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

And then ….when? ….When that which detains is gone….taken out of the way …departed. ….Once light is gone …darkness takes free reign.

That may be so. But there are huge numbers who are saying they are "Christians" but are not really so. And that is what the apostasy is all about.

No, it isn't. EVERY epistle is written to the church mostly about the church. No sinner can fall away, because they're already in sin.

Forgive the intrusion to your convo... but are you suggesting that real, born-again Christians don't sin, ever?

I continually hear of the falling away of believers before Christ’s return….Hopefully this will clarify that misconception….It is not a falling away …but a departure……We be gone, baby.

A look at the word hē apostasia …translated in verse 2:3 as a falling away which has been wrongly understood as a falling away of the faithful…(turning unfaithful) believers….but that is not how this reads..

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a “falling away” and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;



First understand that…. The English version prior to King James version.. translated apostasia in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 as departing. The King James or authorized version was the first to translate apostasia as falling away.

Jerome's Latin translation of the vulgate around 400 AD, translate the Greek apostasia as Latin discessio ….meaning departure. The Tyndale Bible 1534, the Geneva Bible, and the Cramer Bible first published in 1537, all translated apostasia as departed ….these versions all preceded the King James version printed in 1611.

What happened with KJV …we don’t really know….. but one of the fatal mistakes the translators made was in failing to take into consideration the definite article (the) before the word apostasia which appears in the Greek text. The article may be used to point out an object, the identity of which is defined by some previous reference made to it in the context…. The translators of the Authorized KJ Version looked for the definition of the word in the subsequent context…. whereas the Greek article points here to a previous context…. namely to the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ in the air and the gathering together of the Saints to Him.

We need to look at this from the Greek point of view, not the English, if we are to discover the reason that the article is used….

the usage of the article draws our attention to the identity and special significance of this particular departure. The Greeks do not need the article to make the noun definite as used in English. In the Greek a substantive is definite without the article……The article originally came from the demonstrative pronoun such as “this” or “that” …. which calls attention with special emphasis to a designated object. Its function is to point out an object or draw attention to it….. It is used with a word that makes the word stand out distinctly. Whenever the Greeks used “the” article, it points out individual identity…. and it marks a specific object of thought.

The Greeks used the article with infinitives, adjectives, adverbs, prepositional phrases, and clauses …..or even with whole sentences….. We do not have a corresponding English usage or anything even remotely similar. When the article hē (= the) appears in Greek ….it always signals some special significance. And we need to look at the matter from the Greek point of view, not the English, if we are to discover the reason that the article is used.

Apostasia = departure. The cognitive neuter noun apostasia occurs three times Mat 5:31, Mat 19:7 & Mar 10:4…. of divorce, the departure of a husband and wife from each other. The word used here is a feminine noun with only one other occurrence in the New Testament… Act 21:21 regarding a departure from Moses… that is, a departure from the mosaic law. The departure referred to here in 2Thes 2 is explained in verses 2:6-8 of 2Thesas the removal of a restraint.

2Th 2:1 begins this discussion with regard to the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering up together with him. This verse in chapter 2 …taken together with the previous verses in the first chapter suggest that the departure refers to the gathering together of holy ones… which precedes both the appearance of the lawless one and the day of the Lord. Therefore, we can conclude that the Bible definition of the word, apostasia is departure.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<



II Thes 2:1-8

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

Brethren indicates Paul is talking to those in the body of Christ…. born again believers.

By the “coming” of our lord Jesus Christ AND “gathering together” unto Him (2 things) coming and gathering ….addressed to born again believers of the church of God.


2Th2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of [Christ] Lord is at hand.

Just as today, there were those spreading false information including → that the day of the Lord is taking place right now.

The word Christ should be translated Lord. All critical Greek text read Lord.

KJV/NKJV is the only common version that has Christ. Any reference to the Lords Day or Day of the Lord is referencing the tribulation period.



2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come the departure (hē apostasia) and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

In order to not be deceived,…..we need to be aware that there is a departure first.

2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

Remember (dudes) brethren…. I went over this stuff with you…Paul had previously told them in 1Th 1:9&10, 1Th 2:19, 1Th 4:13-18, 1Th 5:1-11



2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

withholdeth …holds back …detains

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth= witholdeth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

Letteth is the same word as withholdeth.. (katechō)

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

And then ….when? ….When that which detains is gone….taken out of the way …departed. ….Once light is gone …darkness takes free reign.

No, it isn't. EVERY epistle is written to the church mostly about the church. No sinner can fall away, because they're already in sin.

It's a departure from the faith.

To fall away, apostasy, means to depart from Christ, to serve other gods.

Paul plainly stated the resurrection and rapture happens at His coming.

Yes very true, but as you can see, evidenced by this thread, they are attempting to literally deceive people into believing the word apostasia means something other than its universally-accepted definition. In effect, that’s enough to change the Bible.

Don’t drink the pre-trib kool-aid, whatever you do.