Reconciling Matthew 24 and Revelation 6

Meanwhile, discussing and debating doctrine and eschatology can be a very rewarding/edifying experience.

I do believe that, as the Body of Christ, we should be focused on “preparation” more than “evangelizing” in this day and age. We are rapidly approaching the “Day of the Lord”.

I am going to lay out my understanding of these scriptures and invite commentary to the effect of edification or correction. My faith is in Christ alone so it will not offend me if I am shown to misunderstand the scriptures. It can only increase my knowledge and understanding.

This topic, specifically is Matthew 24:3-14 and Revelation 6:1-11

Mat 24:4 Jesus' warns against being deceived.

5 Many will come “in Jesus' Name”, saying that Jesus is the Christ. Deceiving many. (paraphrased)

I understand that this passage can include the notion that there will be “false Christs”, too.
That may well be, but, it CERTAINLY refers to deception WITHIN the Church.

Jesus said “IN MY NAME” (refers to himself) and saying “I AM the CHRIST” (again referring to himself). There are no quotes”” in scripture. He could have said conclusively that people would claim to be the Christ. The passage would read more like “saying that THEY are the Christ”.

Rev 6:1-2 The Lamb opens the first seal, the White horse goes forth to conquer (overcome). The rider is given a Bow and a victor's crown.

There are 2 “Main” schools of thought on this.

1. The White Horse is the Antichrist.
2. The White Horse is Jesus.

Neither of these are true. We can look to Zechariah for an explanation of the Horses:

Zech 1:7-10
7 Upon the four and twentieth day of the eleventh month, which is the month Sebat, in the second year of Darius, came the word of the Lord unto Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, the son of Iddo the prophet, saying,
8 I saw by night, and behold a man riding upon a red horse, and he stood among the myrtle trees that were in the bottom; and behind him were there red horses, speckled, and white.
9 Then said I, O my lord, what are these? And the angel that talked with me said unto me, I will shew thee what these be.
10And the man that stood among the myrtle trees answered and said, These are they whom the Lord hath sent to walk to and fro through the earth.

And Zech 6:1-5
1 And I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came four chariots out from between two mountains; and the mountains were mountains of brass.
2 In the first chariot were red horses; and in the second chariot black horses;
3 And in the third chariot white horses; and in the fourth chariot grisled and bay horses.
4 Then I answered and said unto the angel that talked with me, What are these, my lord?
5 And the angel answered and said unto me, These are the four spirits of the heavens, which go forth from standing before the Lord of all the earth.

So, I understand the “Horses” to be those spirits sent forth for God's purposes.
This means that the White Horse is neither Jesus, nor Antichrist.

I do, however, believe that Jesus' “Olivet Discourse” is pointing to the 4 seals of Revelation. It matches too closely to dismiss.

The rider of the White Horse is the Spirit of “the spreading of the Gospel” that is riding out to conquer (overcome) and wears a victor's crown (Stephanos).

Jesus is warning not to be deceived or led astray from the mission of the Disciples/Apostles.

This brings us to the point that the White Horse begins his ride IMMEDIATELY after Christ's victory on the cross.
I support this in 2 ways:

1. The Olivet Discourse CLEARLY describes a timeframe longer than a 7 year period. In fact, not until the Gospel has been delivered to EVERY Nation, will the END come.
2. Rev 5 (let the reader understand) my emphasis

Rev 5 clearly shows a scene in Heaven where all are distressed that none is worthy to open the scroll.
SUDDENLY, the Lamb appears and is worthy. This happened immediately upon Jesus' resurrection and overcoming death. The Lamb then takes the scroll and opens the first seal. Notice that he did NOT wait 2000 years. Jesus began opening the seals immediately upon his victory. Remember, he had to become “worthy” before he could do so. There is no scripture connecting the 1st seal with the beginning of Daniel's 70th week.

It is important to note that the NT Book is called “The Revelation of Jesus Christ” and NOT “The revelation of Daniel's 70th week”.

To keep it short, my understanding is that the opening of the seals began at Jesus' resurrection.

In my estimation, the 5th seal would be more contemporary to the beginning of the 7 years as it seems to suggest a “demarcation point” to tell the martyrs (up to that time) that the final week is beginning.

So, really, the 6th seal might be the first one that we “recognize”.

As Jesus said:
Mat 24:15-22
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: Daniel)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

In closing, I believe that the Gospel HAS been preached to all Nations and the END is near.
My Pastor thinks that “the gospel must be preached to every living soul”. Not true. Jesus will make sure that all who can be saved, will be.


My love to you all. Please, let us Prepare! For He surely will come soon!

I do believe that, as the Body of Christ, we should be focused on “preparation” more than “evangelizing”

The horses refer to the church, the "Israel of God". The seven churches, seals, and trumpets are all parallel prophecies because they all begin to unfold while Jesus is still in the first apartment of the heavenly sanctuary and had not yet begun to cleanse it, which Daniel 8 and 9 says would happen 2,300 years after 457 B.C. The four horses are depicting:

the pure white early church that went forth preaching the pure Gospel
the blood red church under Satanic persecution when truth began to spread and threaten paganism
the black corrupted church when Satan switched tactics from direct attack to a flood of pagan infiltration
the pale dead Christless church under Roman Catholic papal rule (while true Christians fled to the wilderness to escape papal errors and persecution)

Jesus said for us to tell them.

It is true that we live in a time of epic self centeredness, whereby many false believers would have you to worry about yourself first.
So, when they post such anti-Cross propaganda, .. just note who they are and know what they are...

The work of Christianity, is not that you try to be perfect as your #1 reason to exit...but its that you bring others to Jesus.


Think of this..

Lets say.....You died today...
You instantly meet the Lord, and He says...>"what have you done for me in my body" ?? (The body of Christ) ... and all you can say is..>"well, i repented a lot... i confessed sin a lot, and i tried to be happy a lot, and i tried to speak in a prayer language a lot so that others would think that im very spiritual">

And He says...>"did you lead anyone to Me"? "did you make any disciples"?

You say...>"well, no but i was on Christian forums a lot trying to replace the Cross with water baptism, works, and self righteousness".
And i talked about Mary and Taking Communion a lot...

Dont be that one.
Be the other one.

Interesting take on it.
Can you give me a source for more in-depth study?

The horses refer to the church, the "Israel of God".

It's an eschatological interpretation called "Historicism" for the most part. It centers around Jesus' heavenly ministry as the basis for the prophetic timeline, while most other views are variations on Jesuit doctrines of Futurism or Preterism.

Since Daniel and Revelation go together and are intrinsically tied, what must be incorporated is "unto two thousand three hundred days, then shall the sanctuary be cleansed".

It can be shown that the 70 Weeks prophecy of chapter 9 was given to Daniel as a means of clearing up the confusion regarding the "two thousand three hundred" vision of chapter 8 which left him deeply troubled and perplexed. Certainly, if this referred to literal days, then finding out 6.5 years remaining in captivity would be as nothing to a man who'd spent his entire life in Babylonian bondage...however, finding out terrible things yet remains against the sanctuary and the truths contained therein for the coming 2,300 YEARS would rightly cause Daniel the mental breakdown he experience. After being told 70 Weeks are "cut off" from the 2,300, it is easily deduced that since the 70 Weeks begin in 457 B.C., therefore the 2,300 days begin there also.

Now, NO THINKING PERSON denies the 70 Weeks are symbolic for 490 years...therefore if they are "cut off" from something, that thing MUST BE LARGER than 490 years -- and the only thing they are contextually "cut off" from can be the 2,300 which must, therefore, be 2,300 years, which would be too small if it were only referring to 2300 literal days which is equivalent to 6.5 literal years.

Taking Jesus' heavenly sanctuary ministry into account, which is where the prophecies of Revelation unfold, we see that everything that unfolds while Jesus is in the 1st apartment must begin to unfold BEFORE 2,300 years after 457 B.C. - or 1844 A.D - and everything that unfolds in the 2nd apartment is post-1844, namely the plagues, the Second Advent, the 1,000 years, etc.

To me the Olivet Discourse is the warning/ prophesy of the [penalty] to fall on that generation for the murder of The Son of God .

Which means that the invitation of the Gospel has been sent by God for every nation under heaven starting with the ones they had gotten to so far and they were to continue doing this until Jesus comes again.

They had not been to America yet. It had not been discovered. They had not been to many places they did not know existed.

If someone tries to tell you that the Native Americans had been reached when Paul wrote this, having nothing to do with them they are probably about to lay some cult teachings on you.

That was only a small part of the Olivet Discourse (as applied to the destruction of Judea, Jerusalem, and the temple). The actual purpose was to summarize for the apostles the major events and developments between the first and second coming of Christ. And all the seals in the book of Revelation correspond to the Olivet Discourse.

In the book of Revelation God has given us an overview of what will happen until He establishes the New Heavens and the New Earth. It would appear that we are seeing the fulfillment of Revelation 12, where Satan and his evil angels have come to earth to destroy humanity. Whatever is being reported in the news media shows this destruction on a daily basis.

I would like to get your take on that.

Yes...I will respond after work today.

Okay, I see your point. I will have to digest it, though.
I agree that the 2300 are "years" not days.
I'm not sure about the 70 being "cut-off". I understand it to mean that after 69 weeks (of years) "Messiah is cut-off".
I'll have to think about how that fits.
Also, what is the significance of 1844 (if any)?
These are just my initial thoughts on your post.
I have often struggled with the 2300 years and have seen some commentaries.
Nothing has really pinned it down for me, yet. This is a different, and welcomed, approach.

The fact that God's proper name was remove and replaced in the Bible is utterly proven on a different thread.
MOST others agree that this is the case, although there are differing opinions as to "relevance".

I don't appreciate you posting that I have "attacked the Holy Spirit".
This is underhanded and the farthest thing from Truth.
I'm glad that most people here will not take you at your word on this.

God has NOT "clearly said" that ANY of the seals of Revelation are a "Judgement".
Nor does God say that any seal is good or bad.
Most of us agree that the Horsemen of the 4 Seals result in TROUBLE for God's chosen.
That does not make them "Judgements".
They give us a picture of the "conditions" the world will experience leading up to the "Judgements".
It is also stated that these "conditions" will be like "Birth Pangs".

Drink some Lemonade.
Cool your venom.

The Hebrew word translated "determined" in the KJV is "chatak" and means "amputate". It is likely the KJV translators didn't know what to make of it, seeing that the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation were still new to that generation, and thus translated it "determined".

However, it is irrefutable that the sole reason for the giving of the 70 Weeks was to clear up and explain Daniel's confusion about the "mareh" (vision) of chapter 8, the 2,300. Daniel knew what the ram represented, what the he-goat represented, what the first horn of the goat represented, what the four horns following represented, and what the little horn would represent, seeing that chapter 7 shares similar themes...what he DIDN'T know was about the 2,300 days, the "mareh" which is the word angel used in reference to the "vision" of chapter 8 when he appeared to Daniel and said, "...therefore, understand the matter and consider the VISION ("mareh") and then immediately proceeds to give the 70 Weeks prophecy --- it is akin to saying, "OK, Daniel, I'm here to explain the 2,300 so listen up...Seventy Weeks are determined ("cut off") upon thy people and upon thy holy city..."

The 70 Weeks were a sign to all that when they came to pass and met their fulfillment with the arrival and crucifixion of Messiah, and the destruction of Jerusalem, this would show that God is still on the throne and would faithfully bring about the fulfillment of the rest of the prophecy, the 2,300. In 1844, Jesus finished His ministry in the first apartment and moved into the 2nd to "cleanse the Sanctuary" which had massive end times implications on Earth, including the "hour of His judgment IS IS IS IS IS come" -- not "will come in the future when Jesus comes back" as most believe. The judgment is going on NOW and is why Revelation 14:6-7 KJV says so, along with many other verses which make it clear that Jesus is coming WITH His rewards for us, determined for us now and handed out later when He comes. We've got to get ready.

I do believe that, as the Body of Christ, we should be focused on “preparation” more than “evangelizing” in this day and age. We are rapidly approaching the “Day of the Lord”.

I am going to lay out my understanding of these scriptures and invite commentary to the effect of edification or correction. My faith is in Christ alone so it will not offend me if I am shown to misunderstand the scriptures. It can only increase my knowledge and understanding.

This topic, specifically is Matthew 24:3-14 and Revelation 6:1-11

Mat 24:4 Jesus' warns against being deceived.

5 Many will come “in Jesus' Name”, saying that Jesus is the Christ. Deceiving many. (paraphrased)

I understand that this passage can include the notion that there will be “false Christs”, too.
That may well be, but, it CERTAINLY refers to deception WITHIN the Church.

Jesus said “IN MY NAME” (refers to himself) and saying “I AM the CHRIST” (again referring to himself). There are no quotes”” in scripture. He could have said conclusively that people would claim to be the Christ. The passage would read more like “saying that THEY are the Christ”.

Rev 6:1-2 The Lamb opens the first seal, the White horse goes forth to conquer (overcome). The rider is given a Bow and a victor's crown.

There are 2 “Main” schools of thought on this.

1. The White Horse is the Antichrist.
   
2. The White Horse is Jesus.

Neither of these are true. We can look to Zechariah for an explanation of the Horses:

Zech 1:7-10
7 Upon the four and twentieth day of the eleventh month, which is the month Sebat, in the second year of Darius, came the word of the Lord unto Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, the son of Iddo the prophet, saying,
8 I saw by night, and behold a man riding upon a red horse, and he stood among the myrtle trees that were in the bottom; and behind him were there red horses, speckled, and white.
9 Then said I, O my lord, what are these? And the angel that talked with me said unto me, I will shew thee what these be.
10And the man that stood among the myrtle trees answered and said, These are they whom the Lord hath sent to walk to and fro through the earth.

And Zech 6:1-5
1 And I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came four chariots out from between two mountains; and the mountains were mountains of brass.
2 In the first chariot were red horses; and in the second chariot black horses;
3 And in the third chariot white horses; and in the fourth chariot grisled and bay horses.
4 Then I answered and said unto the angel that talked with me, What are these, my lord?
5 And the angel answered and said unto me, These are the four spirits of the heavens, which go forth from standing before the Lord of all the earth.

So, I understand the “Horses” to be those spirits sent forth for God's purposes.
This means that the White Horse is neither Jesus, nor Antichrist.

I do, however, believe that Jesus' “Olivet Discourse” is pointing to the 4 seals of Revelation. It matches too closely to dismiss.

The rider of the White Horse is the Spirit of “the spreading of the Gospel” that is riding out to conquer (overcome) and wears a victor's crown (Stephanos).

Jesus is warning not to be deceived or led astray from the mission of the Disciples/Apostles.

This brings us to the point that the White Horse begins his ride IMMEDIATELY after Christ's victory on the cross.
I support this in 2 ways:

1. The Olivet Discourse CLEARLY describes a timeframe longer than a 7 year period. In fact, not until the Gospel has been delivered to EVERY Nation, will the END come.
   
2. Rev 5 (let the reader understand) my emphasis

Rev 5 clearly shows a scene in Heaven where all are distressed that none is worthy to open the scroll.
SUDDENLY, the Lamb appears and is worthy. This happened immediately upon Jesus' resurrection and overcoming death. The Lamb then takes the scroll and opens the first seal. Notice that he did NOT wait 2000 years. Jesus began opening the seals immediately upon his victory. Remember, he had to become “worthy” before he could do so. There is no scripture connecting the 1st seal with the beginning of Daniel's 70th week.

It is important to note that the NT Book is called “The Revelation of Jesus Christ” and NOT “The revelation of Daniel's 70th week”.

To keep it short, my understanding is that the opening of the seals began at Jesus' resurrection.

In my estimation, the 5th seal would be more contemporary to the beginning of the 7 years as it seems to suggest a “demarcation point” to tell the martyrs (up to that time) that the final week is beginning.

So, really, the 6th seal might be the first one that we “recognize”.

As Jesus said:
Mat 24:15-22
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: Daniel)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

In closing, I believe that the Gospel HAS been preached to all Nations and the END is near.
My Pastor thinks that “the gospel must be preached to every living soul”. Not true. Jesus will make sure that all who can be saved, will be.


My love to you all. Please, let us Prepare! For He surely will come soon!

I agree with your post but when you said
"No pretrib believer would suddenly backslide because they were experiencing supernatural protection from the judgments that were coming on others."
This is what I mean to prepare against happening. The "weakness" of faith can cause backsliding.
It's not about pre-trib, per se, it could be about a beautiful new temple in Jerusalem, or a red heifer.
The point is that there are those that are so attached to an idea that certain things MUST occur before Christ's return that they will actually deny his coming when it happens. This is the "deception" being taught.
Our "awareness" is based on the fact that it doesn't matter how things unfold, or the timing of them.
So, I agree with you that
"They (we) will believe even more. It is not possible for a born again believer to experience the wrath of God that is coming for sinners."

Believe me, there will be prominent Preachers declaring "THIS IS NOT IT because SUCH AND SUCH HASN'T HAPPENED"
It's the followers of these teachers that need to be a more "prepared".
Because you love God and study his Word, I have little doubt that you are "unprepared".
Meanwhile, discussing and debating doctrine and eschatology can be a very rewarding/edifying experience.

I don't know how anyone will miss the coming of the Lord. His point was not to listen to someone say the Christ has come. He tells them when He comes back everyone will know it. You won't need to worry about a discussion whether it is true or not.