Reconciling Matthew 24 and Revelation 6

[SomeDisciple]

And for good measure; let's do Colossians chapter 1 as well.

23If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; (????)whereof I Paul am made a minister
24Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: 25Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; 26Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: (!!!) 27To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: 28Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: 29Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

 

[Amanuensis]

And for good measure; let's do Colossians chapter 1 as well.

23If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; (????)whereof I Paul am made a minister
24Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: 25Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; 26Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: (!!!) 27To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: 28Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: 29Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Which means that the invitation of the Gospel has been sent by God for every nation under heaven starting with the ones they had gotten to so far and they were to continue doing this until Jesus comes again.

They had not been to America yet. It had not been discovered. They had not been to many places they did not know existed.

If someone tries to tell you that the Native Americans had been reached when Paul wrote this, having nothing to do with them they are probably about to lay some cult teachings on you.

 

[JeffA]

The verse plainly says that these pretenders will say "I am Christ". So why are you making them out to be false prophets? Jesus also mentions false prophets later on, but you are trying to dismiss false Christs. When the Antichrist comes on the scene he will say "I am Christ". Many have already made this claim.

I'm not making it out to sound that way. There are no Quotation marks (as you inserted).
If he meant it the way you say, he would have just said that "many would claim to be the Christ".
He certainly would not say that "many will come in MY name".
He is saying that many will say that He is Christ (pretending to "come in His name").
He was saying that the deception isn't that they are denying that He is Christ.
Sure, there have been many "False Christs" (and they would be included in this group)
but there have been many Thousands of "False Prophets".

 

[JeffA]

I have read your post here (though I didn't quote it all) and your analysis appears to be somewhat in line with this publishing from Grace Community International:

Sorry, no. Never heard of them and I don't share their opinion about the white horse as being a "counterfeit" Jesus.
I love the rest of your post is great. I'm looking into getting some chickens. My wife (40 years now) and I only have 1/4 acre now but I think we can put a moveable coup somewhere between the raised beds.

 

[JeffA]

Being found engaged in evangelizing and advancing the kingdom of God by getting souls saved through faith in Jesus Christ, establishing local churches who can continue to evangelize their communities, when Jesus comes back, IS PREPARING.

Your comments on revelation don't address your idea of "Preparation" or I did not understand it. What is your definition of preparing for the return of Christ if not evangelizing?

What would preparing look like to you? You aren't talking about storing up can goods and living in a hole are you?

Dogs would sniff you out because you have to have an air vent, plus they can sniff you out underground, they are so good at that kind of thing. The only place of safety for a born again Christian is Faith in Christ and being busy doing the Fathers business which is EVANGELIZING.

Is that the reaction you were looking for?

You're right. I didn't get into what "Preparing" looks like. Your quick synopsis is pretty close to what I had in mind.
I'm not a "prepper". I do have a fishing pole and an air rifle, though. Also, my wife loves to grow veggies and can them.
So we have some food on the shelves (in case you're in the neighborhood and hungry)

Yes, our local community should be our first order of business (after our families) in edification, testifying, sharing the Gospel. etc.
We should live each day as if Jesus is coming tomorrow.
I am not making a "prediction" other than "Sooner than we think".
"Evangelizing" has turned into a money machine. That should stop. Same with "prosperity" preaching.
Outreach is one thing, but not at the expense of a local community in need.

Maybe a little "Fire and Brimstone" preaching is in order? Maybe I just miss hearing it.

 

[JeffA]

While you have a prediction, it's best to face the coming day God has for us to face full of faith and love of God, as it comes.. lest you lose faith if/when you're prediction doesn't pan out.

Well, my "prediction" is that Jesus' return is sooner than we think (from what I can tell from my 63 years).
What you said; "lest you lose faith if/when you're prediction doesn't pan out"
This what I was getting at as being prepared.
The "prediction" is not so much "Time based" as it is "Event Based".
For example: (since I don't believe in pre-trib rapture, I'll use this as an example)
We are taught through Churches, TV and Movies about a pre-tribulation Rapture.
If Jesus comes and there has been no "Rapture", how many will deny his coming?
What you say about a prediction not panning out is true both in Time and Event basis.
I say to be prepared in case the Events don't look like you expect them to. Keep your heart and mind open.
Be vigilant in prayer and study. And, importantly, REJOICE in his coming day!

 

[Amanuensis]

Well, my "prediction" is that Jesus' return is sooner than we think (from what I can tell from my 63 years).
What you said; "lest you lose faith if/when you're prediction doesn't pan out"
This what I was getting at as being prepared.
The "prediction" is not so much "Time based" as it is "Event Based".
For example: (since I don't believe in pre-trib rapture, I'll use this as an example)
We are taught through Churches, TV and Movies about a pre-tribulation Rapture.
If Jesus comes and there has been no "Rapture", how many will deny his coming?
What you say about a prediction not panning out is true both in Time and Event basis.
I say to be prepared in case the Events don't look like you expect them to. Keep your heart and mind open.
Be vigilant in prayer and study. And, importantly, REJOICE in his coming day!

Whether the rapture happens at the beginning or the end, we are to be giving out the word of life to all those around us, which is evangelizing. That is how we can be prepared. Pretrib or post trib does not change that.

If someone is a pre tribulation believer and these judgments of the wrath of God come upon the earth they will be divinely protected so why would they stop believing while getting divinely protected from the wrath? That does not make sense. They will believe even more. It is not possible for a born again believer to experience the wrath of God that is coming for sinners.

No pretrib believer would suddenly backslide because they were experiencing supernatural protection from the judgments that were coming on others.

I am of the opinion that when these judgments do come the time of repenting will be over but I could be wrong. We will see.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Sorry, no. Never heard of them and I don't share their opinion about the white horse as being a "counterfeit" Jesus.
I love the rest of your post is great. I'm looking into getting some chickens. My wife (40 years now) and I only have 1/4 acre now but I think we can put a moveable coup somewhere between the raised beds.

We live in the mountains so we have no flat land, we are literally planted on a fairly steep slope but we have a yard area that's fairly easy to walk around in and at our age and health it's the best area to be able to care for and protect any animals. (Bears here are particularly fond of the taste of pork themselves my husband tells me, and bears are plentiful here... When we were unloading the U-Haul the day we moved in our local buddy (otherwise known as a bear) greeted us by strolling through said yard... Tis his territory he says.. haha)

But we figure there's enough room for a couple pigs to raise... Less to weed eat.. haha

Now that we're on a fixed income we're trying to be mindful. We can't handle runaway inflation. Every shopping trip another few items have increased in price, just last trip coffee went up 2 dollars, a 25% increase.. and it's not just coffee it's everything, every trip it's a dollar more here 3 dollars more there and there doesn't seem an end.

When I had a farm I raised chickens and cows .. 200 chickens a year (for family use although I did sell any extra eggs) and then all the cattle. Chickens are easy... Slaughtering weekend is the chore.. we made an assembly line of it and put the boys on the kill and the kids on the plucking with some adults on the finishing work and it was always mom and I on the dressing (aka evisceration).

For just you and your wife you won't need that many chickens though (Thank God, yes?! Lol), we raised them for several families (who were all one family).

 

[ewq1938]

The seals are in order. They are numbered.

Actually they aren't at least in the sense you are thinking. There are 7 seals, which one did he open first? And, are there any rules as to which seal must be opened first?

 

[Rondonmon]

This topic, specifically is Matthew 24:3-14 and Revelation 6:1-11

Rev. 6 is Prophesying what coming in Rev. 8, but nothing in Rev. 24:4-14 is a part pf the 70th wee, it will NEVER HAPPEN. Its just bad eschatology by those who do not understand the Raptures timing is Pre Trib, thus 15 can not happen until after the Rapture and 14 ends the Church Age. /

 

[JeffA]

No pretrib believer would suddenly backslide because they were experiencing supernatural protection from the judgments that were coming on others.

I agree with your post but when you said
"No pretrib believer would suddenly backslide because they were experiencing supernatural protection from the judgments that were coming on others."
This is what I mean to prepare against happening. The "weakness" of faith can cause backsliding.
It's not about pre-trib, per se, it could be about a beautiful new temple in Jerusalem, or a red heifer.
The point is that there are those that are so attached to an idea that certain things MUST occur before Christ's return that they will actually deny his coming when it happens. This is the "deception" being taught.
Our "awareness" is based on the fact that it doesn't matter how things unfold, or the timing of them.
So, I agree with you that
"They (we) will believe even more. It is not possible for a born again believer to experience the wrath of God that is coming for sinners."

Believe me, there will be prominent Preachers declaring "THIS IS NOT IT because SUCH AND SUCH HASN'T HAPPENED"
It's the followers of these teachers that need to be a more "prepared".
Because you love God and study his Word, I have little doubt that you are "unprepared".
Meanwhile, discussing and debating doctrine and eschatology can be a very rewarding/edifying experience.

 

[JeffA]

Rev. 6 is Prophesying what coming in Rev. 8, but nothing in Rev. 24:4-14 is a part pf the 70th wee, it will NEVER HAPPEN. Its just bad eschatology by those who do not understand the Raptures timing is Pre Trib, thus 15 can not happen until after the Rapture and 14 ends the Church Age. /

Well, I don't want to get into a discussion on the "Rapture" in this thread but I agree with you that Rev. 6 and Mat 4-14 describe what is leading up to Daniel's 70th week. The 5th seal could be the time of the beginning of that week, maybe?
Mat 15 certainly is in the middle of the week.

How we formulate our understanding of the events is interesting. Everyone seems to have slightly different ideas.
For example, Rev 6:8
8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Does this mean 1/4 of the earth is slain? or
Does it mean that they had POWER over 1/4 of the earth, and the killing, etc. was going on within that scope?

It's an interesting discussion. I've been on both sides. I don't mind switching camps if convinced to do so.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I agree with your post but when you said
"No pretrib believer would suddenly backslide because they were experiencing supernatural protection from the judgments that were coming on others."
This is what I mean to prepare against happening. The "weakness" of faith can cause backsliding.
It's not about pre-trib, per se, it could be about a beautiful new temple in Jerusalem, or a red heifer.
The point is that there are those that are so attached to an idea that certain things MUST occur before Christ's return that they will actually deny his coming when it happens. This is the "deception" being taught.
Our "awareness" is based on the fact that it doesn't matter how things unfold, or the timing of them.
So, I agree with you that
"They (we) will believe even more. It is not possible for a born again believer to experience the wrath of God that is coming for sinners."

Believe me, there will be prominent Preachers declaring "THIS IS NOT IT because SUCH AND SUCH HASN'T HAPPENED"
It's the followers of these teachers that need to be a more "prepared".
Because you love God and study his Word, I have little doubt that you are "unprepared".
Meanwhile, discussing and debating doctrine and eschatology can be a very rewarding/edifying experience.

Preparation for the second advent however, is spiritual.

In the years leading up to when I was saved I (personally) had an ever greater urgency that the "end" was soon. Prophecy concerning the time swirling through my head near constantly at one point. It had become something I couldn't shake on a spiritual level.

Then I was saved and all I had was peace. No more prophecy swirling around my head, no sky is falling thoughts... I was home. I was in the exact place God has for me at the exact right time: the perfect timing of God.

And while on occasion I feel a little shaken by national and world events, that peace hasn't left me. If I leave it momentarily it's a simple matter to walk back to the peace God granted.

And that peace is in the surety of my salvation. Knowing that no matter what the world throws my way it will all be okay, and just the way God planned. My life is in His Hand eternally, so life or death matters not.

That is what being prepared looks like. It's not what many think. It's a spiritual place, a heart that's right with God and the place where all God's people should be and stay.

In this place, Psalms 91:1-13 is true. So if you are to prepare, be right before the Lord and ready and able to stand on that Day. That is your only objective. The objective of every Christian.

I was saved 7 years ago and am on a sure foundation now. If you can claim similar (with only a difference in time) then your prepared... Because God has prepared a place for you.

 

[DavidTree]

The Four Horsemen are Judgments and not one of them is a Blessing.

The White Horse is 100% the OPPOSITE of the spreading of the Gospel and the Apostle John made clear who this represents.

This is confirmed by the LORD Jesus Christ in the Gospels, by the Apostle Paul, by the Holy Spirit and by the Apostle John.

White is symbolic of purity which is also the dressing/robes/garment of false christs and prophets.

Matthew ch24, 2 Thess ch2 , 1 Timothy ch4 , 2 Timothy ch2 , 1 John ch2

"Children, it is the last hour; and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. This is how we know it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they did not belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But their departure made it clear that none of them belonged to us."

The Gospel does not conquer the world = falsehood does = Noah's days return.

The Gospel SAVES the soul of man, not by conquering but thru the LOVE of CHRIST.

The POWER of GOD that brings SALVATION comes not on Horse with a Bow but on the Wings of DOVE.

 

[JeffA]

The Four Horsemen are Judgments and not one of them is a Blessing.

The White Horse is 100% the OPPOSITE of the spreading of the Gospel and the Apostle John made clear who this represents.

This is confirmed by the LORD Jesus Christ in the Gospels, by the Apostle Paul, by the Holy Spirit and by the Apostle John.

White is symbolic of purity which is also the dressing/robes/garment of false christs and prophets.

Matthew ch24, 2 Thess ch2 , 1 Timothy ch4 , 2 Timothy ch2 , 1 John ch2

"Children, it is the last hour; and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. This is how we know it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they did not belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But their departure made it clear that none of them belonged to us."

The Gospel does not conquer the world = falsehood does = Noah's days return.

The Gospel SAVES the soul of man, not by conquering but thru the LOVE of CHRIST.

The POWER of GOD that brings SALVATION comes not on Horse with a Bow but on the Wings of DOVE.

These seals are opened by Jesus.
The Bow and the Stephanos is given to the rider by who? Jesus (at least on his behalf).
The 4 Horses ride to accomplish God's will. They are neither "good" nor "bad".

Like I said before, it makes no difference to me if you think that the white horse represents the antichrist or Jesus or anyone.
Like I said before, the ISSUE concerning the white horse is DECEPTION IN THE CHURCH.
This is clearly stated by Jesus in the Olivet discourse.

 

[DavidTree]

First it's God's Name not in the Bible.
Next is an attack on the Holy Spirit.
Now it's changing what God has clearly said is a Judgement and TROUBLE into preaching the Gospel.

Just as false teachers proliferate the world today, the LORD has His Teacher = the SPIRIT of TRUTH.
The SPIRIT of TRUTH will only confirm "It is written" and only those few who know will speak in Harmony with the Word.

False teachers are a dime a dozen - true Spirit filled Teachers only AGREE with "It is written."

Submission unto Christ begins with hearing His words, obeying His words and fearing His words so as not to rise above them.

Holy Spirit filled teachers turn you back to the LORD and "It is written" from Genesis to Revelation.

 

[tourist]

My love to you all. Please, let us Prepare! For He surely will come soon!

Marantha.

 

[JeffA]

IMHO
It is fitting, and opposes no scripture, to believe that the very first seal of the Revelation of Jesus Christ is the sending forth of the Truth and Righteousness of the Gospel. In fact, the Gospel was (and is) spreading throughout the world. This describes what the horse's function is according to Zechariah.
The fact that Jesus warns of the deception and False Prophets is directly related to the spreading of the Gospel.
The "conquering" and "overcoming" equates to the winning of souls through the spreading of His Word.

If you believe that the white horse and rider (itself) symbolizes antichrists and false prophets, so be it.
We still arrive at the same place. I just visualize it differently. It's still about the corruption of the Church.
If you think the problem is people like Jim Jones or David Koresh, just listen to modern day "MEGA" Preachers.

 

[DavidTree]

The Four Horsemen are God's will in Judgment and not Blessing upon a world in rebellion against HIM who sits on the Throne and the Lamb.

It makes a difference to the FATHER, the SON and the HOLY SPIRIT of whose words we are to follow and bow our hearts.

Reconcile your words to firmly and completely agree with "It is written" in every aspect and you will be BLESSED.

Wings of a DOVE will not Trouble
for those HE Loves
the devil's hate will only Double
as we are now in the Days of Trouble

Focus your eyes on the Prize
which comes down from the FATHER above
the devil with his lies
opens his mouth wide, out comes a flood

antichrists abound
we see this all around
the True Christ is Above
Seated next to the FATHER
HE is our Brother
who sent to us
TRUTH form a DOVE

 

[JeffA]

First it's God's Name not in the Bible.
Next is an attack on the Holy Spirit.
Now it's changing what God has clearly said is a Judgement and TROUBLE into preaching the Gospel.

Just as false teachers proliferate the world today, the LORD has His Teacher = the SPIRIT of TRUTH.
The SPIRIT of TRUTH will only confirm "It is written" and only those few who know will speak in Harmony with the Word.

False teachers are a dime a dozen - true Spirit filled Teachers only AGREE with "It is written."

Submission unto Christ begins with hearing His words, obeying His words and fearing His words so as not to rise above them.

Holy Spirit filled teachers turn you back to the LORD and "It is written" from Genesis to Revelation.

The fact that God's proper name was remove and replaced in the Bible is utterly proven on a different thread.
MOST others agree that this is the case, although there are differing opinions as to "relevance".

I don't appreciate you posting that I have "attacked the Holy Spirit".
This is underhanded and the farthest thing from Truth.
I'm glad that most people here will not take you at your word on this.

God has NOT "clearly said" that ANY of the seals of Revelation are a "Judgement".
Nor does God say that any seal is good or bad.
Most of us agree that the Horsemen of the 4 Seals result in TROUBLE for God's chosen.
That does not make them "Judgements".
They give us a picture of the "conditions" the world will experience leading up to the "Judgements".
It is also stated that these "conditions" will be like "Birth Pangs".

Drink some Lemonade.
Cool your venom.